Jimbeaux82
Handloader
- Jan 6, 2011
- 407
- 176
Does anyone have any load data using the 64 gr BSB in the 223 or 5.56? I will be shooting this in an AR platform in either a 1/9 or a 1/7 barrel.
Thanks
Jimbeaux
Thanks
Jimbeaux
64 gr BSB load data for 223/5.56
- Thread starter Jimbeaux82
- Start date
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,190
- 2,850
Code:
Cartridge : .223 Rem.
Bullet : .224, 64, Nosler Bond SB 38135
Useable Case Capaci: 25.822 grain H2O = 1.677 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
90 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031 110.0 24.5 1.59 3144 100.0 58351 7958 0.955 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 109.1 26.0 1.68 3141 96.5 60000 8511 0.954 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 101.5 26.0 1.68 3141 98.5 60000 8212 0.946 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 103.2 27.4 1.77 3141 96.8 60000 8460 0.945 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 107.1 24.9 1.62 3136 100.0 60000 7860 0.979 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp 105.6 24.3 1.58 3135 100.0 60000 7337 0.945 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 105.0 24.3 1.58 3134 100.0 60000 7337 0.945 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 104.0 27.0 1.75 3132 97.7 60000 8379 0.954 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 109.2 27.7 1.79 3128 96.0 60000 8390 0.946 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 109.8 26.1 1.69 3121 95.8 60000 8381 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 109.8 26.1 1.69 3121 95.8 60000 8381 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 109.8 26.1 1.69 3121 95.8 60000 8381 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 107.0 26.3 1.70 3121 99.1 60000 8040 0.962 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 104.6 26.3 1.70 3121 99.1 60000 8040 0.962 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 105.9 25.2 1.63 3115 97.0 60000 8255 0.957 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 93.6 22.9 1.48 3113 100.0 60000 7438 0.954 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 110.0 26.2 1.70 3112 96.3 59105 8357 0.961 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 106.1 25.3 1.64 3105 96.4 60000 8221 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 103.9 26.4 1.71 3103 96.3 60000 8201 0.953 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 102.3 23.6 1.53 3102 99.8 60000 7674 0.949 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 96.1 23.6 1.53 3102 99.8 60000 7674 0.949 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 96.4 25.0 1.62 3100 99.4 60000 7851 0.954 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 106.9 25.0 1.62 3099 99.5 60000 7848 0.959 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 96.0 24.4 1.58 3098 99.4 60000 7833 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 102.9 25.6 1.66 3097 97.7 60000 8045 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 95.9 24.5 1.58 3096 99.4 60000 7821 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 100.9 25.9 1.68 3095 98.0 60000 8074 0.961 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 109.1 26.2 1.70 3093 99.4 60000 7923 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 106.6 26.2 1.70 3092 96.3 60000 8113 0.955 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 110.0 27.0 1.75 3089 95.9 56481 8382 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 101.8 24.4 1.58 3089 97.8 60000 7958 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 40 98.2 23.8 1.54 3085 99.6 60000 7680 0.957 ! Near Maximum !
SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 96.8 23.5 1.53 3083 100.0 60000 7048 0.967 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 104.1 24.8 1.60 3077 97.7 60000 7860 0.957 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 107.3 25.0 1.62 3077 97.7 60000 7944 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 108.7 26.9 1.74 3075 94.1 60000 8078 0.959 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 106.4 27.0 1.75 3075 93.9 60000 8112 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 105.4 23.8 1.54 3073 99.3 60000 7735 0.979 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 99.7 22.4 1.45 3072 100.0 60000 7228 0.965 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 104.6 26.8 1.74 3071 96.1 60000 7878 0.955 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 99.8 25.5 1.65 3071 98.5 60000 7766 0.973 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 99.5 25.5 1.65 3071 98.5 60000 7766 0.973 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 109.1 25.5 1.65 3069 99.6 60000 7530 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 110.0 27.0 1.75 3067 94.1 59881 8022 0.960 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 109.3 25.1 1.63 3066 97.7 60000 7838 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 110.0 26.8 1.73 3064 93.6 58416 8192 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 110.0 25.5 1.65 3064 97.5 58266 7948 0.977 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 101.7 24.7 1.60 3060 99.8 60000 7434 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 97.9 25.0 1.62 3057 98.4 60000 7632 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 110.0 25.8 1.67 3055 95.5 57740 7963 0.962 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 102.5 23.3 1.51 3053 100.0 60000 7150 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 110.0 26.5 1.72 3053 96.5 54905 8229 0.997 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 110.0 26.5 1.72 3053 96.5 54905 8229 0.997 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 104.3 26.6 1.73 3053 93.7 60000 7925 0.966 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 110.0 27.0 1.75 3051 94.9 54707 8302 0.984 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 95.8 22.3 1.45 3051 100.0 60000 7049 0.980 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 98.7 25.4 1.65 3049 97.1 60000 7681 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 96.5 23.7 1.54 3045 98.3 60000 7568 0.961 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 102.8 26.4 1.71 3044 93.1 60000 7933 0.963 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 100.5 25.5 1.65 3042 96.1 60000 7752 0.964 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 110.0 25.6 1.66 3040 99.2 53497 8029 1.026 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 93.7 22.7 1.47 3038 99.0 60000 7400 0.959 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 104.8 24.8 1.60 3035 96.8 60000 7603 0.959 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 94.3 23.9 1.55 3034 98.3 60000 7493 0.963 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 102.5 24.0 1.56 3033 98.2 60000 7496 0.963 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 110.0 25.4 1.65 3029 94.9 57593 7872 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 98.8 21.1 1.37 3028 100.0 60000 6705 0.951 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 106.3 24.7 1.60 3023 99.8 60000 7229 0.972 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 94.2 21.0 1.36 3022 100.0 60000 6650 0.966 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 105.3 24.4 1.58 3021 96.3 60000 7533 0.963 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 110.0 25.3 1.64 3019 94.7 56934 7847 0.975 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 108.4 23.6 1.53 3018 100.0 60000 6888 0.961 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 110.0 27.5 1.78 3013 93.9 50638 8658 1.012
Alliant Reloder-17 110.0 27.5 1.78 3013 93.9 50638 8658 1.012
Alliant Reloder-7 93.3 21.5 1.39 3011 100.0 60000 6763 0.970 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 104.4 24.6 1.59 3011 96.8 60000 7441 0.963 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 94.4 21.8 1.41 3010 99.6 60000 7033 0.955 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 102.2 22.7 1.47 3009 100.0 60000 6795 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 95.0 21.2 1.38 3001 99.7 60000 6909 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 97.3 22.7 1.47 2999 100.0 60000 6773 0.969 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 60 110.0 27.5 1.78 2995 94.4 49490 8780 1.022
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 110.0 26.4 1.71 2993 90.1 58172 7701 0.965 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 110.0 24.7 1.60 2988 94.7 55185 7697 0.992 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 110.0 27.7 1.79 2984 88.1 52258 8224 1.007
Hodgdon H414 110.0 27.7 1.79 2984 88.1 52258 8224 1.007
Somchem S355 110.0 25.6 1.66 2976 95.2 51813 7950 1.024
IMR 4007 SSC 110.0 26.6 1.72 2973 88.9 57159 7723 0.989 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 96.7 21.0 1.36 2968 100.0 60000 6188 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 110.0 25.9 1.68 2968 95.1 50439 7975 1.035
Vihtavuori N125 91.3 20.2 1.31 2965 100.0 60000 6199 0.971 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 110.0 27.3 1.77 2926 88.7 58424 7231 0.988 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S053 90.3 19.3 1.25 2926 100.0 60000 5965 0.973 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 110.0 26.0 1.69 2921 90.6 53223 7495 1.005 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 110.0 26.8 1.73 2917 90.5 46864 8145 1.056
Vihtavuori N135 110.0 23.7 1.54 2911 99.5 48098 7239 1.052
PB Clermont PCL 511 110.0 27.9 1.81 2908 87.6 48364 8074 1.042
ReloadSwiss RS 62 110.0 27.4 1.78 2873 89.7 44183 8108 1.081
Bofors RP7 110.0 25.7 1.67 2868 86.9 50806 7446 1.041
Rottweil R907 110.0 25.7 1.67 2868 86.9 50806 7446 1.041
ReloadSwiss RS 70 110.0 27.9 1.81 2846 86.2 45733 8113 1.068
Lovex S065 110.0 25.6 1.66 2837 89.1 47443 7457 1.072
Norma URP 110.0 25.9 1.68 2813 88.5 42439 7776 1.102
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 110.0 25.9 1.68 2812 88.5 42398 7770 1.102
Norma 204 110.0 27.0 1.75 2796 81.6 46260 7412 1.069
Vihtavuori N150 110.0 24.7 1.60 2795 94.5 43487 7242 1.099
Accurate 4350 110.0 26.2 1.70 2794 88.2 40342 7824 1.128
Ramshot Hunter 110.0 27.0 1.75 2794 85.2 42982 7714 1.099
Lovex S070 110.0 25.9 1.68 2793 86.1 44589 7435 1.099
IMR 4350 110.0 26.0 1.69 2771 84.3 44957 7182 1.085
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 110.0 26.6 1.72 2758 83.9 43042 7332 1.104
Somchem S365 110.0 26.0 1.69 2734 90.5 37577 7818 1.161
Hodgdon H4350 110.0 25.6 1.66 2712 82.9 42219 7000 1.116
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 110.0 25.3 1.64 2707 89.4 39077 7224 1.145
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 110.0 26.2 1.70 2688 79.2 41154 7067 1.127
Raufoss RA4 110.0 26.2 1.70 2688 79.2 41154 7067 1.127
ADI AR 2209 110.0 26.0 1.69 2648 77.4 39738 6979 1.145
Rottweil R904 110.0 25.8 1.67 2646 77.6 40649 6735 1.138
Somchem S361 110.0 27.9 1.81 2637 77.0 41845 6598 1.134
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
Here are my chronograph results from a 16 inch 1-9 twist, NATO chamber, with the64 grain bonded solid base. Dont have data here for the CFE223 with Remington 7 1/2 primer, will try to add it later. Made all the difference int he world with CFE. Dont even bother with the CCI450, too hot a primer with most of these powders despite its otherwise good reputation with the AR15 platform. I standardized on CFE223 at about 2900 fps, WW brass and Remington 7 1/2 primer. The max load in Nosler manual, which is a SAMMI loading (not NATO) gives you 2750 fps from a 16 inch barrel. I dont know why Nosler does not publish data for the AR at NATO pressures for all of its bullets. It is after all the most popular rifle in America.
64 grain Nosler Bonded solid Base Reloading data.
16 inch Bushmaster. 70 degrees.
New Winchester (primed) brass.
WW 748.
25.0 grains 2,809 fps
25.5 grains Error
25.7 grains 2,829 fps.
*25.9 grains 2,814, 2821 fps, 2817 av. (Last powder charge is max predicted by Quickload).
Comments: Accurate, all shots center high point of aim, about one inch vertical group).
WW748, continued.
CCI 450 primer.
25.9 2942, 2872, 2907 av. (+90, 109, 115 fps WSR primer). Back off 0.4 – 0.5 grains.
WW748, continued. Accuracy.
WSR primer.
25.9 grains. 2787, 2805, 2786, 2791, 2789, 2791, 2792 average. 1 H x 3/8 V. (-115 fps CCI450).
WW748, continued.
25.9 grains 2795, 2801, 2798 av (-109 fps CCI450)
26.1 2814, 2789, 2801 av
26.3 2805, 2785, 2795 av (flatter primer)
RL 15.
25.0 2,712 fps, 2675 fps
*25.5 2,904 (zeroed powder charge), 2,826 (pulled), 2,843 (two un-zeroed).
*25.9 2,894, 2,870. 2882 av. (Equal velocity to 27.1 gr CFE223/CCI450 or 27.0 WSR).
Comments: Accurate. Similar POI as W748. Slightly larger dispersion due to velocity variation?
RL15, continued.
WSR primer.
26.1 2918, 2872. 2895 av. (Flat primer back off to 25.9)
CCI 450 primer.
25.8 Try.
26.1 2910, 2925, 2917 av. (flatter still. Back off to 25.9 or less). +22 fps WSR.
RL15 Accuracy, continued.
WSR primer.
25.9 grains* 2874, 2860, 2845, 28897, 2858, 2867 average. 1 ¼ V x 7/8 H.
25.9 grains 2797, 2840, 2862, 2846, 2836 average. 2 ½ H x 1 V.
26.1 grains 2846, 2831, 2844, 2840 average. 1 x ¾ (6). Flatter primer.
26.3 grains 2892, 2875, 2872, 2881, 2873, 2876 average. Very flat primer.
BLC-2.
25.5 2,849, 2827 (ok)
26.0 2,881, 2864 (Max NATO w 75 grain BTHP)
*26.5 2,934, 2957
26.9 2,942, 2953 (ok). 2947 av.
Comments: Larger groups than W748 or RL15 but centered high.
BLC-2, continued. Accuracy.
WSR primer.
26.5 grain 2857, 2883, 2885, 2860, 2882, 2853 average. 1 ¾ H x 5/8 V.
26.9 grains 2866, 2895, 2894, 2901, 2894, 2847, 2882 average. 2 ½ H x 1 V.
CCI450 primer.
26.5 grain 2853, 2886, 2906, 2930, 2872, 2889 average, +36 fps WSR. 1 7/8 H x 2 5/8 V.
IMR 4895.
25.0 2727, 2737 (mild)
25.5 2790, 2810 (ok)
*25.7 2859, 2828, 2843 av. (worn case head on extraction like many loads above).
Comments: Similar POI as RL15. Not very accurate. Nice full case supports bullet set back 109% full but below neck. Probably OK for automatic powder measure. Try IMR 3031 if you can find any.
IMR 4895, continued. Accuracy. WSR primer.
25.7 grains. 2818, 2898, 2829, 2835, 2831, 2824 average. (Less pressure than other powders tested. Probably another 50 fps possible?) 2 ¼ H x ¾ V.
Try 25.7 grains with CCI450?
H335.
24.0 2693, 2679
24.5 2822, 2718
24.8 2755, 2735
25.0 2713, 2783 (small case head mark. Flat primer).
Comments: Too fast burning for this bullet.
Varget.
40 degrees or less. Ammo 65 degrees.
25.0 grains 2654 (cold barrel), 2699, 2676 av
25.2 2725, 2746, 2735 av (fairly flat primer, some radius left)
25.4 2739, 2759, 2749 av (probably too hot)
25.6 2819, 2764, 2797 av
Comments: Faster burning than IMR 4895.
Hodgon CFE223.
WW primed brass and primer. 47 degree outside, 67 degree ammo.
25.0 grains 2,575 (cold barrel)
25.5 2,676
26.0 2,779 (- 150 fps 26 inch barrel max SAMMI in Nosler manual).
26.2 2,787
26.4 2,817
26.7* 2,822
26.8 2797 (ambient house), 2776 (cold room).
27.0 2916 (ambient house), 2874 (cold room). Sudden increase in velocity. Don’t use above 26.7 grains with WSR. Better predictability with CCI 450.
27.2 2979 flat primer and ejector mark. Too hot.
27.3 Max predicted Quick Load. Pulled bullet. Too hot.
CFE223
Once fired WW brass and CCI450 primer.
25.0 2615
25.5 2717
26.0 2755
26.3 2755
26.5 grains 2771
26.7 2816
26.9 2863
27.1 2880 (sm ejector mark or just rough bolt face?)
27.2* Try. (2908 predicted from 27.1 and 27.3).
27.3 2937 (Max predicted w Quick Load). Still some radius on primer.
Try five shots ea for accuracy w 64 grain NBSB/CFE223/CCI450 at 27.2 and 27.3 grains.
CFE223
75 grain Hornady BTHP moly coated.
WSR.
24.3 2328
25.4 2513
25.9 2560 (-30 fps OTM from 16 inch)
26.5 2659 (+70 fps OTM).
26.7 2704
26.8 Try.
26.9* 2770
27.1 2814 (2790 goal equals 2900 from 20 inch).
Comments: With these components and rifle CFE223 appears to be slower burning than indicated in both Hornady and Nosler manual. Getting some powder residue on case head after each shot. Dirty like using a suppressor. Longer barrel may be appropriate. Try five shots w 26.9 grains with 75 grain BTHP.
Reference Ammo.
Federal MSR Fusion, control. 2731, flat primer.
Federal MSR. 2695, 2700, 2638, 2677 average. 1 x 1 inch (4). 2 flyers from cold barrel? About 2 inches high point of aim.
Hornady Super Performance 53 grain V Max, 3126, 3180, 3162 average fps.
RA64 M193, 3087, 3057, 3026, 3054, 3038, 3052 average. 3 x 2 inches.
IMI M855, 3019, 3040, 3029 average.
64 grain Nosler Bonded solid Base Reloading data.
16 inch Bushmaster. 70 degrees.
New Winchester (primed) brass.
WW 748.
25.0 grains 2,809 fps
25.5 grains Error
25.7 grains 2,829 fps.
*25.9 grains 2,814, 2821 fps, 2817 av. (Last powder charge is max predicted by Quickload).
Comments: Accurate, all shots center high point of aim, about one inch vertical group).
WW748, continued.
CCI 450 primer.
25.9 2942, 2872, 2907 av. (+90, 109, 115 fps WSR primer). Back off 0.4 – 0.5 grains.
WW748, continued. Accuracy.
WSR primer.
25.9 grains. 2787, 2805, 2786, 2791, 2789, 2791, 2792 average. 1 H x 3/8 V. (-115 fps CCI450).
WW748, continued.
25.9 grains 2795, 2801, 2798 av (-109 fps CCI450)
26.1 2814, 2789, 2801 av
26.3 2805, 2785, 2795 av (flatter primer)
RL 15.
25.0 2,712 fps, 2675 fps
*25.5 2,904 (zeroed powder charge), 2,826 (pulled), 2,843 (two un-zeroed).
*25.9 2,894, 2,870. 2882 av. (Equal velocity to 27.1 gr CFE223/CCI450 or 27.0 WSR).
Comments: Accurate. Similar POI as W748. Slightly larger dispersion due to velocity variation?
RL15, continued.
WSR primer.
26.1 2918, 2872. 2895 av. (Flat primer back off to 25.9)
CCI 450 primer.
25.8 Try.
26.1 2910, 2925, 2917 av. (flatter still. Back off to 25.9 or less). +22 fps WSR.
RL15 Accuracy, continued.
WSR primer.
25.9 grains* 2874, 2860, 2845, 28897, 2858, 2867 average. 1 ¼ V x 7/8 H.
25.9 grains 2797, 2840, 2862, 2846, 2836 average. 2 ½ H x 1 V.
26.1 grains 2846, 2831, 2844, 2840 average. 1 x ¾ (6). Flatter primer.
26.3 grains 2892, 2875, 2872, 2881, 2873, 2876 average. Very flat primer.
BLC-2.
25.5 2,849, 2827 (ok)
26.0 2,881, 2864 (Max NATO w 75 grain BTHP)
*26.5 2,934, 2957
26.9 2,942, 2953 (ok). 2947 av.
Comments: Larger groups than W748 or RL15 but centered high.
BLC-2, continued. Accuracy.
WSR primer.
26.5 grain 2857, 2883, 2885, 2860, 2882, 2853 average. 1 ¾ H x 5/8 V.
26.9 grains 2866, 2895, 2894, 2901, 2894, 2847, 2882 average. 2 ½ H x 1 V.
CCI450 primer.
26.5 grain 2853, 2886, 2906, 2930, 2872, 2889 average, +36 fps WSR. 1 7/8 H x 2 5/8 V.
IMR 4895.
25.0 2727, 2737 (mild)
25.5 2790, 2810 (ok)
*25.7 2859, 2828, 2843 av. (worn case head on extraction like many loads above).
Comments: Similar POI as RL15. Not very accurate. Nice full case supports bullet set back 109% full but below neck. Probably OK for automatic powder measure. Try IMR 3031 if you can find any.
IMR 4895, continued. Accuracy. WSR primer.
25.7 grains. 2818, 2898, 2829, 2835, 2831, 2824 average. (Less pressure than other powders tested. Probably another 50 fps possible?) 2 ¼ H x ¾ V.
Try 25.7 grains with CCI450?
H335.
24.0 2693, 2679
24.5 2822, 2718
24.8 2755, 2735
25.0 2713, 2783 (small case head mark. Flat primer).
Comments: Too fast burning for this bullet.
Varget.
40 degrees or less. Ammo 65 degrees.
25.0 grains 2654 (cold barrel), 2699, 2676 av
25.2 2725, 2746, 2735 av (fairly flat primer, some radius left)
25.4 2739, 2759, 2749 av (probably too hot)
25.6 2819, 2764, 2797 av
Comments: Faster burning than IMR 4895.
Hodgon CFE223.
WW primed brass and primer. 47 degree outside, 67 degree ammo.
25.0 grains 2,575 (cold barrel)
25.5 2,676
26.0 2,779 (- 150 fps 26 inch barrel max SAMMI in Nosler manual).
26.2 2,787
26.4 2,817
26.7* 2,822
26.8 2797 (ambient house), 2776 (cold room).
27.0 2916 (ambient house), 2874 (cold room). Sudden increase in velocity. Don’t use above 26.7 grains with WSR. Better predictability with CCI 450.
27.2 2979 flat primer and ejector mark. Too hot.
27.3 Max predicted Quick Load. Pulled bullet. Too hot.
CFE223
Once fired WW brass and CCI450 primer.
25.0 2615
25.5 2717
26.0 2755
26.3 2755
26.5 grains 2771
26.7 2816
26.9 2863
27.1 2880 (sm ejector mark or just rough bolt face?)
27.2* Try. (2908 predicted from 27.1 and 27.3).
27.3 2937 (Max predicted w Quick Load). Still some radius on primer.
Try five shots ea for accuracy w 64 grain NBSB/CFE223/CCI450 at 27.2 and 27.3 grains.
CFE223
75 grain Hornady BTHP moly coated.
WSR.
24.3 2328
25.4 2513
25.9 2560 (-30 fps OTM from 16 inch)
26.5 2659 (+70 fps OTM).
26.7 2704
26.8 Try.
26.9* 2770
27.1 2814 (2790 goal equals 2900 from 20 inch).
Comments: With these components and rifle CFE223 appears to be slower burning than indicated in both Hornady and Nosler manual. Getting some powder residue on case head after each shot. Dirty like using a suppressor. Longer barrel may be appropriate. Try five shots w 26.9 grains with 75 grain BTHP.
Reference Ammo.
Federal MSR Fusion, control. 2731, flat primer.
Federal MSR. 2695, 2700, 2638, 2677 average. 1 x 1 inch (4). 2 flyers from cold barrel? About 2 inches high point of aim.
Hornady Super Performance 53 grain V Max, 3126, 3180, 3162 average fps.
RA64 M193, 3087, 3057, 3026, 3054, 3038, 3052 average. 3 x 2 inches.
IMI M855, 3019, 3040, 3029 average.
- Thread starter
- #4
Jimbeaux82
Handloader
- Jan 6, 2011
- 407
- 176
Thanks guys. You have exceeded my expectations!
Jimbeaux
Jimbeaux
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
Jim,
I found my data with Remington 7 1/2 primer. Made a big difference in consistancy. Ive loaded several hundred of these now. It is my std load. Not quite as accurate as Win 748 or RL 15 at 2800 fps but for 125 fps extra velocity I will take it.
FBI ammo loaded by Winchester chronographs about 2830 fps from my 16 inch barrel. So CFE reload is faster but still slower than either Mk318 or M855, and probably safe. No signs of rapid loss of case life, or ejector marks in my two rifles. Wish Nosler would publish NATO pressure loads for the 223/556.
CFE223, continued.
64 grain NSB, Remington 7 ½ Benchrest primer.
27.1 2906 (round primers!), 2913, 2916. ES 10 fps. 2912 average. Use this!!!
27.0 Colder component temperature. Used pulled bullets. 2890, 2930. 2920 average. Both primers round.
64 grain NSB, CCI 450 primer.
27.1 2975 (extrusion on firing pin), 2939, 2899. (flat w some radius left). 2937 average. Back off w CCI 450.
27.2 Pulled bullets. Too hot.
I found my data with Remington 7 1/2 primer. Made a big difference in consistancy. Ive loaded several hundred of these now. It is my std load. Not quite as accurate as Win 748 or RL 15 at 2800 fps but for 125 fps extra velocity I will take it.
FBI ammo loaded by Winchester chronographs about 2830 fps from my 16 inch barrel. So CFE reload is faster but still slower than either Mk318 or M855, and probably safe. No signs of rapid loss of case life, or ejector marks in my two rifles. Wish Nosler would publish NATO pressure loads for the 223/556.
CFE223, continued.
64 grain NSB, Remington 7 ½ Benchrest primer.
27.1 2906 (round primers!), 2913, 2916. ES 10 fps. 2912 average. Use this!!!
27.0 Colder component temperature. Used pulled bullets. 2890, 2930. 2920 average. Both primers round.
64 grain NSB, CCI 450 primer.
27.1 2975 (extrusion on firing pin), 2939, 2899. (flat w some radius left). 2937 average. Back off w CCI 450.
27.2 Pulled bullets. Too hot.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,664
- 5,453
And straight from Nosler's load info:
Guy
Guy
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
26.0 cfe223 produces 2750 fps in a 16 inch barrel.
SAMMI pressure, not NATO.
SAMMI pressure, not NATO.
- Thread starter
- #8
Jimbeaux82
Handloader
- Jan 6, 2011
- 407
- 176
Been trying to find some CFE 223 but no luck. But I have secured some AA2460 powder and loaded up a batch ranging from 23.0 grs to 25.4 grs. Will chrono tomorrow and report the results. Trying to load to NATO pressure and velocity.
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
Jim, I would be surprised if you got more than 2800 fps from a 16 inch even at NATO pressure using NATO LC brass with that powder.
By all means try it an please post results here.
If you can find Win 748 or RL 15 you can get that much velocity or more at exceptional accuracy. Common powders in most parts of the country.
By all means try it an please post results here.
If you can find Win 748 or RL 15 you can get that much velocity or more at exceptional accuracy. Common powders in most parts of the country.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,664
- 5,453
Andrewctillman, GREAT info. Thanks.
The little .223/5.56 loses a fair bit of velocity when confined to a shorter barrel. Still an awful lot of fun to shoot, and useful too.
Regards, Guy
The little .223/5.56 loses a fair bit of velocity when confined to a shorter barrel. Still an awful lot of fun to shoot, and useful too.
Regards, Guy
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
Guy, nothing really wrong with 2750 fps. That is what you get on a warm day with Federal Fusion MSR in a 16 inch. Fusion is also a SAMMI rather than NATO load.
Most people dont realize how different a 556 nato and 223 remington are from each other. the nato loading makes a 223 look more like a 222. The nato chamber has a long throat. I tell people to think of it as a 223 weatherby! (meaning it has alot of free bore).
Hornady is one of few ammo makers who load 223 remington and nato ammo and sell it to the public. It is a liaility issue I realize and really a tower of babel in many ways. But the black rifle is the most popular rifle in the USA now for many years and Nosler is loosing customers to Hornady and Barnes who publish both 223 remington and nato loads.
The nosler manual only stresses 69 and 77 custom competition loads for the ar15, yet most ar owners are not nra service rifle comeptitors.
The 64 grain bonded solid base is such a good bullet it really deserves a work up by nosler staff in the nato chamber. Nosler has won the FBI contract twice, first with the 60 grain PT and now with the 64. They should be proud of that, advertise it, and publish nato pressure loads. It would be good business and good for the brand.
They may be reluctant to push a trophy bonded style bullet but the 556 is such a pip squeak, you need to halt expansion to get the desired penetration, and most premium bullet reloaders can understand that.
Most people dont realize how different a 556 nato and 223 remington are from each other. the nato loading makes a 223 look more like a 222. The nato chamber has a long throat. I tell people to think of it as a 223 weatherby! (meaning it has alot of free bore).
Hornady is one of few ammo makers who load 223 remington and nato ammo and sell it to the public. It is a liaility issue I realize and really a tower of babel in many ways. But the black rifle is the most popular rifle in the USA now for many years and Nosler is loosing customers to Hornady and Barnes who publish both 223 remington and nato loads.
The nosler manual only stresses 69 and 77 custom competition loads for the ar15, yet most ar owners are not nra service rifle comeptitors.
The 64 grain bonded solid base is such a good bullet it really deserves a work up by nosler staff in the nato chamber. Nosler has won the FBI contract twice, first with the 60 grain PT and now with the 64. They should be proud of that, advertise it, and publish nato pressure loads. It would be good business and good for the brand.
They may be reluctant to push a trophy bonded style bullet but the 556 is such a pip squeak, you need to halt expansion to get the desired penetration, and most premium bullet reloaders can understand that.
- Thread starter
- #12
Jimbeaux82
Handloader
- Jan 6, 2011
- 407
- 176
OK, so here are my results with AA2460.
64 gr NSB, AA 2460 , Tula SRP, LC brass, 2.180" oal, crimped into cannelure with Lee Collet crimper, 90 deg Louisiana afternoon.
AR 15, 16" barrel, 1/7 twist, Eotech Optic
23.0 gr - 2647 fps, 2611 fps, 2647 fps
24.0 grs - 2727 fps, 2699 fps, 2742 fps
24.5 grs - 2806 fps, 2782 fps, 2838 fps
25.0 grs - 2853 fps, 2828 fps, 2854 fps
25.4 grs - 2900 fps, 2903 fps, 2988 fps
I did not see any signs of pressure at all. The primers start to finish looked the same.
Regarding group size, I was shooting at a 100 yard target but with a non-magnified optic, Eotech, all my groups were in the 3 inch neighborhood which is sufficient for this rifle. As I load more, I may clamp on a 4x scope and see what groups I get.
Just for comparison, I ran 2 rounds of Win 5.56, M885, 62 gr factory and chrono'd 2954 fps.
All in all, I am satisfied with the results and plan to load up a major batch at 25.4 grs.
64 gr NSB, AA 2460 , Tula SRP, LC brass, 2.180" oal, crimped into cannelure with Lee Collet crimper, 90 deg Louisiana afternoon.
AR 15, 16" barrel, 1/7 twist, Eotech Optic
23.0 gr - 2647 fps, 2611 fps, 2647 fps
24.0 grs - 2727 fps, 2699 fps, 2742 fps
24.5 grs - 2806 fps, 2782 fps, 2838 fps
25.0 grs - 2853 fps, 2828 fps, 2854 fps
25.4 grs - 2900 fps, 2903 fps, 2988 fps
I did not see any signs of pressure at all. The primers start to finish looked the same.
Regarding group size, I was shooting at a 100 yard target but with a non-magnified optic, Eotech, all my groups were in the 3 inch neighborhood which is sufficient for this rifle. As I load more, I may clamp on a 4x scope and see what groups I get.
Just for comparison, I ran 2 rounds of Win 5.56, M885, 62 gr factory and chrono'd 2954 fps.
All in all, I am satisfied with the results and plan to load up a major batch at 25.4 grs.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,664
- 5,453
Nice.
My AR-15, also a 16" model but with a 1-4x Leupold, carries real easy. I keep having thoughts of using it this coming winter on coyotes, and perhaps walking the tracks of a cougar, hoping for a shot... Have a good stash of these 64's and can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work great on a cougar...
My AR-15, also a 16" model but with a 1-4x Leupold, carries real easy. I keep having thoughts of using it this coming winter on coyotes, and perhaps walking the tracks of a cougar, hoping for a shot... Have a good stash of these 64's and can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work great on a cougar...
- Thread starter
- #14
Jimbeaux82
Handloader
- Jan 6, 2011
- 407
- 176
I just re-looked at my brass from the 25.4 gr loads and noticed a slight ejector mark on the brass. I might drop down to 25.0 or 25.2 grs to be safe .
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
Jim, there are others here more experienced than I to discuss this but at first glance it looks like you are increasing velocity about 10 fps per tenth grain between 24.5 and 25.0 and doubl that when going from 25.0 to 25.4 grains.
I would not exceed 2900 fps average which will probably be closer to 25.1 or 25.2 grains.
Remember, factory nato pressure ammo is going 2830 fps from a 16 inch.
Not to say you dont have one of a few magic powders or combination of reloading components we all look for.
I think you will find much better than 3 inch groups w your scope or taking a six ocolock hold on a bullseye with good metallic sights. 4895 and BLC2 gave me 3 inch groups but low pressure. Other powders much better groups without loosing too much velocity.
Thanks for sharing.
I would not exceed 2900 fps average which will probably be closer to 25.1 or 25.2 grains.
Remember, factory nato pressure ammo is going 2830 fps from a 16 inch.
Not to say you dont have one of a few magic powders or combination of reloading components we all look for.
I think you will find much better than 3 inch groups w your scope or taking a six ocolock hold on a bullseye with good metallic sights. 4895 and BLC2 gave me 3 inch groups but low pressure. Other powders much better groups without loosing too much velocity.
Thanks for sharing.
This is well timed for me thanks all. I just ordered some 2nds from SPS in prep for my son's 1st deer hunt. He really likes my AR so I am hoping this projectile will shine.
What does Nosler list as it's optimal velocity window for expansion/integrity balance? My shots will be short range & I'd like to me sure to get exits since underbrush is pretty thick during our early youth hunts.
I've got the 70 gr Speer shooting really well with a pretty sedate charge of Ramshot XTerminator. That is a good deer bullet from what I've been told, but to be honest I'm a little uncomfortable chasing big game with a tiny little guy labeled "varmint" even though I know several w/ 1st hand experience.
Thanks all,
Efw
What does Nosler list as it's optimal velocity window for expansion/integrity balance? My shots will be short range & I'd like to me sure to get exits since underbrush is pretty thick during our early youth hunts.
I've got the 70 gr Speer shooting really well with a pretty sedate charge of Ramshot XTerminator. That is a good deer bullet from what I've been told, but to be honest I'm a little uncomfortable chasing big game with a tiny little guy labeled "varmint" even though I know several w/ 1st hand experience.
Thanks all,
Efw
andrewctillman
Beginner
- Feb 6, 2013
- 225
- 1
EFW, you can see what an expanded 64 grain looks like in the bullet test section. Great expansion, weight retention and penetration (about 17 inches) which is max you can get with a 223.
Speer not even close to same class as a 64 bonded solid base.
Only other bullets I would use for deer would be 55 - 64 grain TBBC, or 70 grain TSX.
They will not blow up at any velocity you can shoot them from a 223. There are several folks here who use them in a 22-250 and they even hold up to that.
Speer not even close to same class as a 64 bonded solid base.
Only other bullets I would use for deer would be 55 - 64 grain TBBC, or 70 grain TSX.
They will not blow up at any velocity you can shoot them from a 223. There are several folks here who use them in a 22-250 and they even hold up to that.
