7mm 168 LRAB They're Here!!!

[JD338]

My shipment of 7mm 150 gr and 168 gr ABLR's arrived today!
Load work for the 150 gr ABLR starts today in the 280 AI. Should have a dead crop damage deer on the ground Saturday!

JD338

 

[ccoker]

FYI, Nosler.com has 168 load data for the 280 AI
I ran the numbers on both the 150 LR and 168 LR
I am going to get a hold of some 150s as they are a little flatter inside 400 yards

 

[AzDak42]

Az,
I ran the numbers on a ballistic calculator for the 7mm 168gr (2900fps) and the 150gr ABLR (3100fps) and they were very similar in energy and wind drift values. I figured I'd go with the faster one, as the extra 200fps makes it shoot a little bit flatter. I know I'm giving up some SD over the longer 168, but I'm only 0.05 under the SD for a 180gr 30 caliber bullet which has long been the gold standard for penetration. Also, I've never seen an AB fail to penetrate deeply, even if it is a little light for caliber, which in the grand scheme of things the 150gr is not. Just my 0.02, as I had a long time to kick the numbers around on deployment. That said, Scotty and his 7WSM pushing the 168 at 3100fps sounds like good elk medicine to me!
Joe

Great stuff. I have a sneaky feeling that on white tail and antelope, I won't likely recover a 150 unless it's a stem to stern shot. Even at 7RM speeds, it's probably an easy through and through. With the 7STW, it's probably the same for anther couple of hundred yards.

I think I'd still like the 168 or 175 for Elk, but I usually error on the side of heavy when it comes to bigger critters.

 

[Ingwe]

Could anyone explain the difference between RL-22, RL-25, and Mag-Pro??

As posted previously, I want to work-up the fastest load (of course accurate as well) for my 7mmRem Mag with the 168gr AccuBond Lr's. Since I have a 26" barrel, I assume that I should use the slowest powder??

The 3 powders mentioned above will work, but I am not sure which would be fastest in my gun/barrel.

Which would you go with and why??

This place is great!

 

[DrMike]

It is impossible to tell you which powder will produce the highest velocities in your rifle. Burn rates are what are referred to when people speak of a fast powder or a slow powder. ReLoder 25 is slower than RL22 under test conditions. Alliant MagPro has a similar burn rate to ReLoder 25, or perhaps slightly slower. Slower powders usually represent more case fill than faster powders. Burn rate in a given rifle is affected by ambient temperature, bullet weight, primer choice and case capacity (which is a measure of chamber dimensions). Because these can vary, it is not possible to tell you which powder will produce the highest velocity in your rifle.

 

[SJB358]

Could anyone explain the difference between RL-22, RL-25, and Mag-Pro??

As posted previously, I want to work-up the fastest load (of course accurate as well) for my 7mmRem Mag with the 168gr AccuBond Lr's. Since I have a 26" barrel, I assume that I should use the slowest powder??

The 3 powders mentioned above will work, but I am not sure which would be fastest in my gun/barrel.

Which would you go with and why??

This place is great!

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(CIP)
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler BalTip 39586
Useable Case Capaci: 73.743 grain H2O = 4.788 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 55.20 2564 2190 31765 10049 92.4 1.624
-18.0 82 56.58 2629 2302 33980 10357 93.6 1.582
-16.0 84 57.96 2694 2417 36355 10652 94.7 1.540
-14.0 86 59.34 2759 2535 38899 10932 95.7 1.494
-12.0 88 60.72 2823 2655 41628 11196 96.7 1.447
-10.0 90 62.10 2888 2778 44540 11443 97.5 1.402
-08.0 92 63.48 2952 2903 47626 11670 98.2 1.359
-06.0 94 64.86 3016 3030 50917 11878 98.8 1.318
-04.0 96 66.24 3080 3159 54435 12064 99.2 1.278
-02.0 98 67.62 3143 3290 58196 12227 99.6 1.240 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 69.00 3206 3423 62220 12367 99.9 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 102 70.38 3268 3558 66529 12482 100.0 1.167 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 104 71.76 3330 3694 71148 12574 100.0 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 106 73.14 3391 3831 76103 12658 100.0 1.100 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 74.52 3452 3969 81425 12738 100.0 1.068 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 110 75.90 3513 4109 87149 12813 100.0 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 69.00 3339 3714 75019 11899 100.0 1.113 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 69.00 3012 3021 49737 12330 95.9 1.323


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(CIP)
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler BalTip 39586
Useable Case Capaci: 73.743 grain H2O = 4.788 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-25

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 57.60 2592 2237 31310 10358 96.4 1.620
-18.0 87 59.04 2658 2354 33523 10634 97.4 1.577
-16.0 89 60.48 2725 2473 35899 10885 98.2 1.534
-14.0 92 61.92 2791 2595 38452 11110 98.9 1.488
-12.0 94 63.36 2858 2720 41196 11306 99.5 1.440
-10.0 96 64.80 2923 2846 44148 11472 99.8 1.394
-08.0 98 66.24 2988 2974 47329 11607 100.0 1.350
-06.0 100 67.68 3052 3103 50755 11713 100.0 1.307
-04.0 102 69.12 3115 3233 54446 11812 100.0 1.266
-02.0 104 70.56 3178 3364 58441 11907 100.0 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 72.00 3240 3497 62758 11998 100.0 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 73.44 3302 3631 67431 12086 100.0 1.152 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 111 74.88 3363 3766 72499 12168 100.0 1.116 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 113 76.32 3423 3903 77999 12246 100.0 1.082 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 115 77.76 3484 4042 83968 12320 100.0 1.050 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 117 79.20 3544 4183 90419 12388 100.0 1.018 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 72.00 3361 3763 77547 11548 100.0 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 72.00 3053 3104 49925 12501 99.1 1.310


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(CIP)
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler BalTip 39586
Useable Case Capaci: 73.743 grain H2O = 4.788 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Accurate MAGPRO

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 58.40 2550 2165 31277 10200 87.2 1.637
-18.0 83 59.86 2618 2283 33548 10556 88.7 1.593
-16.0 85 61.32 2687 2405 35996 10901 90.2 1.550
-14.0 87 62.78 2757 2531 38635 11235 91.5 1.502
-12.0 89 64.24 2826 2660 41481 11554 92.8 1.453
-10.0 91 65.70 2896 2793 44551 11858 94.0 1.405
-08.0 93 67.16 2966 2930 47828 12145 95.1 1.359
-06.0 95 68.62 3036 3069 51337 12413 96.1 1.315
-04.0 97 70.08 3106 3212 55112 12660 96.9 1.273
-02.0 99 71.54 3175 3359 59178 12886 97.7 1.232 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 73.00 3245 3508 63560 13087 98.4 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 74.46 3315 3660 68290 13263 98.9 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 75.92 3384 3815 73401 13413 99.4 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 77.38 3454 3972 78932 13535 99.7 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 78.84 3522 4132 84927 13627 99.9 1.048 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 80.30 3591 4295 91438 13688 100.0 1.016 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 73.00 3409 3871 77526 12748 100.0 1.096 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 73.00 3021 3039 50188 12661 91.9 1.320


Ingwe, I am not sure if you meant the 150 or the 168ABLR. I am assuming you meant the 150, as we were talking about the edginess of stability in your 10 twist rifle, so I ran some QL data with the three powders you mentioned. For the 150's, I would likely start with RL22, and then RL25, next. RL22 should be just about perfect for the powder, but if I had a bunch of 25 on hand, I wouldn't hesitate to try it either. Same goes for Magpro. I am running RL25 and my 7mm Rem Mag, nets me about 3090FPS with the 160 AB in a 24" barrel and accuracy looks pretty good.

Even with the IMR4350 you said you have on hand, it wouldn't be a bad one either for 150's.

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(CIP)
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler BalTip 39586
Useable Case Capaci: 73.743 grain H2O = 4.788 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 75 50.80 2558 2180 34974 9065 95.3 1.566
-18.0 77 52.07 2615 2278 37155 9303 96.1 1.529
-16.0 79 53.34 2672 2378 39460 9531 96.9 1.485
-14.0 81 54.61 2729 2480 41893 9747 97.6 1.443
-12.0 83 55.88 2785 2583 44464 9951 98.2 1.403
-10.0 85 57.15 2840 2687 47178 10141 98.7 1.365
-08.0 86 58.42 2896 2793 50046 10318 99.1 1.328
-06.0 88 59.69 2951 2900 53076 10481 99.5 1.292
-04.0 90 60.96 3005 3008 56277 10628 99.7 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 92 62.23 3059 3117 59661 10760 99.9 1.225 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 94 63.50 3112 3227 63240 10875 100.0 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 96 64.77 3165 3337 67026 10975 100.0 1.163 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 66.04 3218 3448 71034 11071 100.0 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 67.31 3269 3560 75279 11165 100.0 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 101 68.58 3321 3673 79778 11255 100.0 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 103 69.85 3372 3786 84551 11343 100.0 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 94 63.50 3211 3435 73385 10511 100.0 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 94 63.50 2967 2932 53085 10989 97.6 1.290


Also, this data was ran with a regular 150 BT as I don't have the data for the ABLR's yet, but if you drop from the max by 10% I would assume you'd be completely safe in working up a load for your rifle.

Good luck, and post up some pictures when you can. Love to see how your rifles shoots the new bullets.. :twisted:

 

[bullet]

I get this notice that the 150gr ABLR is in at Midway and go there to order and they are already out and it is on back order. NUTS that is right, I SAID NUTS!!!!! :mrgreen:

 

[sask boy]

Well I just got confirmation my 168gr. are in Canada & will be shipped tomorrow.
Now hopefully my 280AI will be done by the middle of Sept. !!

PS. Mike they should still have some in stock in Vander hoof if u are interested?
Blessings,
Dan

 

[bullet]

Well I just got confirmation my 168gr. are in Canada & will be shipped tomorrow.
Now hopefully my 280AI will be done by the middle of Sept. !!

PS. Mike they should still have some in stock in Vander hoof if u are interested?
Blessings,
Dan

Thanks :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[sask boy]

Cool both you Mikes!!
Mike 2 8) if u get a load set up for the 168gr. in your 280AI I would sure like to try it. Would you mind telling the specs on your custom?

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Ingwe]

SJB,

Wow...thanks for the effort!! So much experience, knowledge and information in your reply.

You are correct that I was talking about the 150ABLR because of my 1:10 twist, but I have decided not to compromise since this has been bothering me for a while now, so.....I am going to send my rifle to Hill Country Rifles and have a 26" Benchmark Barrel installed with a 1:9 twist.
Impulsive move, but I want to be able to use whatever bullet I want to.

So with that in mind (here we go again!) which powder would you think is fastest/best with the 168gr AccuBond LR. After reading your post over a few more times, I think you are going to tell me Mag-Pro then RL-25??

Also, I noticed that you loaded some DAMM HOT over Max loads! Do you start at a below max load and keep going until you see pressure signs and then drop your charge back??

 

[nvbroncrider]

Yep that's what I do. It depends on the cartridge. Some of the old standbys like the 6.5X55 7X57 and .257 .280 loads in books and factory loads are anemic at best. In a modern rifle loaded to modern pressures they will jump out and surprise a guy.

 

[SJB358]

SJB,

Wow...thanks for the effort!! So much experience, knowledge and information in your reply.

You are correct that I was talking about the 150ABLR because of my 1:10 twist, but I have decided not to compromise since this has been bothering me for a while now, so.....I am going to send my rifle to Hill Country Rifles and have a 26" Benchmark Barrel installed with a 1:9 twist.
Impulsive move, but I want to be able to use whatever bullet I want to.

So with that in mind (here we go again!) which powder would you think is fastest/best with the 168gr AccuBond LR. After reading your post over a few more times, I think you are going to tell me Mag-Pro then RL-25??

Also, I noticed that you loaded some DAMM HOT over Max loads! Do you start at a below max load and keep going until you see pressure signs and then drop your charge back??

I am not sure what loads you are referring too. If it is the QL data, that is just a computer projection and changes quite alot from rifle to rifle, cartridge to cartridge. Reason being is your 7mm Mag might have a smaller case case capacity than mine. With the specific information from your rifle, I can use those numbers to change the parameters of the program to compute a better prediction of velocities that will be achieved. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, but I know there are some smarter folks on here that can put it into better words. Seating depth makes a fairly large difference as well on PSI's, so that is another factor that can be changed.

Also, for my own purposes, I try to keep my max loads in the 63000PSI realm, usually using the chrono in order to correlate pressure. It's not perfect, but along with reading other PSI signs, is about all I can do.

 

[Ingwe]

OK got it now.

If you were me, with my info listed above, where/how would you go about working up a load??

PS I think that you should start charging me per question!

 

[Firebird]

I got three boxes of 168 gr in .284, now wishing I had 175 since I'm loading them for my stw, and I'm a recipe follower when I load my own, don't trust myself without some guidelines. . .will tinker with the 168's when the loads get published, glad I have some different powders saved up too

 

[sask boy]

Firebird welcome just list the powders you have on hand and I am sure that someone will have a load that you can start at. Always remember start a couple of grains lower and work your way up slowly .

Blessings,
Dan

 

[SJB358]

OK got it now.

If you were me, with my info listed above, where/how would you go about working up a load??

PS I think that you should start charging me per question!

As for charging per question, that's crazy. These folks have taught me a ton and provided me with so much information over the years, I'd be broke if I had to pay for it!

Now, as to where to start, I don't wanna give you an exact number, unless, you can take a fired case from your rifle, weigh it, then use that same fired case and fill it all the way up to the neck with H20. Then, weigh it. Give me the difference. I will run the program with your specific numbers. Just giving you what I would start at in my rifle, could start you out pretty high with your custom, as you may have a tighter chamber than my factory chambered rifles. The difference between the two can be several grains different, especially in a cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag.

If you'd like to PM, that's fine as well, or we can do it out here on this thread, either way, I am glad to help as no less than 20 others on here would be.

BUT, we gotta see groups shot and more importantly, any animals you take with the old and some previous ones to, you know, just for comparison purposes... :lol:

 

[SJB358]

I got three boxes of 168 gr in .284, now wishing I had 175 since I'm loading them for my stw, and I'm a recipe follower when I load my own, don't trust myself without some guidelines. . .will tinker with the 168's when the loads get published, glad I have some different powders saved up too

Welcome aboard buddy! Glad to have another 7mm shooter aboard!

 

[Ingwe]

OK got it now.

If you were me, with my info listed above, where/how would you go about working up a load??

PS I think that you should start charging me per question!

As for charging per question, that's crazy. These folks have taught me a ton and provided me with so much information over the years, I'd be broke if I had to pay for it!

Now, as to where to start, I don't wanna give you an exact number, unless, you can take a fired case from your rifle, weigh it, then use that same fired case and fill it all the way up to the neck with H20. Then, weigh it. Give me the difference. I will run the program with your specific numbers. Just giving you what I would start at in my rifle, could start you out pretty high with your custom, as you may have a tighter chamber than my factory chambered rifles. The difference between the two can be several grains different, especially in a cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag.

If you'd like to PM, that's fine as well, or we can do it out here on this thread, either way, I am glad to help as no less than 20 others on here would be.

BUT, we gotta see groups shot and more importantly, any animals you take with the old and some previous ones to, you know, just for comparison purposes... :lol:

You're a good man to offer me such a generous favor and I will definitely take you up on it just as soon as I get the rifle back from re-barrel!

 

[SJB358]

No problem. Nothing a bunch of others wouldn't do either.