7mm Remington Magnum and 175gr ABLR-Ballistic Bliss?

EOD Diver · Nov 12, 2013

So I was looking through Nosler #7 and noticed that you can push a 175 PT at close to 3000FPS (2970) out of a 24" pipe. With the shorter bearing surface on the ABLR bullet it should, in theory, be a little quicker than a PT of equivalent weight. Also, it appears the 7mm 175 ABLR has a BC of .672 and a SD of .310, which is out of this world! I've always had a thing for pushing high BC/SD bullets to about 3000. That speed seems to be a happy medium that gets me a pretty flat trajectory, doesn't burn up throats too quickly, is within the expansion window of most quality projectiles, and penetrates game well and flies true via the good BC/SD. Much faster than that and it seems that I lose too much meat (worst case was when I lost most of the left side of an elk shooting a 160 PT at about 3500 out of a 7mm Lazzeroni Firebird). The neat thing is that there are a lot of combinations that will get you there. Some of the ones I've used are a 100gr PT out of a 243, 110 AB out of a 257 Roberts, 140 AB/PT out of a 270 and a 180 AB/PT out of a 300 Win. I originally purchased a 280AI to push a 160 AB to about, you guessed it, 3000FPS. That is, until the 150 ABLR came out and I got greedy and wanted a little more speed.
I enjoy shooting a lot and don't like the increased blast out of rifles wearing muzzle brakes, so personally I draw the recoil line at the 300 Win. I had a 300 WBY that was beautiful, accurate and really carried the mail, but proved a little too much for me. If it's not fun to shoot and I'm not comfortable with the recoil then my proficiency with that weapon is going to suffer so off she went to a pal that promptly installed a muzzle brake on her.
Anyway, this long winded post is to inquire what you guys think about the combination of the 7mm Remington Magnum and 175 ABLR. I know a lot of guys on here shoot 7 mags. Has anyone shot this combo at short or long range, on targets or at game? How did it perform for you? Also, was the recoil similar to a 300 Win pushing a 180? Thanks in advance.
Joe

SJB358 · Nov 12, 2013

Joe, if I thought my 7mm Rem Mag would stabilize them, I'd run them. Even at 2900 they'd be killers out very far. Recoil on my 7 isn't bad at all. Little less than my 300WSM and 180's. But they are two different rifles.

Guy Miner · Nov 12, 2013

Fifteen years ago I was all sorts of enthused about the 175 and the 7mm Remington magnum...

I ran the Sierra SPBT 175 Gameking, and the 175 Nosler Partition, at about 2900 fps via H870.

Worked great! Excellent results at the target range and excellent results on game.

I had two 7mm magnums. One was a sporter weight ADL, the other a Sendero. Both worked superbly with that load.

Am having a LOT of trouble figuring out why I abandoned the 7mm Rem mag some years ago.... I really liked that cartridge & heavy bullets.

Guy

DrMike · Nov 12, 2013

I run 175 grain TBBCs in my 7RM. It has shot amazingly accurately for many years and still delivers sub-MOA groups for me. I will be working up a load with the ABLR this winter.

EOD Diver · Nov 13, 2013

Thanks guys. Seems about like the perfect marriage of BC, SD, velocity and recoil. I noticed that Remington runs a 9.25 twist rate versus Winchester's 9.5. Berger's chart recommended a 9 twist for their 180 grain 7mm pill. Do you think the 175 gr ABLR would experience marginal stabilization in the Winchester rifles? Just a thought.
Joe

SJB358 · Nov 13, 2013

EOD Diver":2qso6j8q said:
Thanks guys. Seems about like the perfect marriage of BC, SD, velocity and recoil. I noticed that Remington runs a 9.25 twist rate versus Winchester's 9.5. Berger's chart recommended a 9 twist for their 180 grain 7mm pill. Do you think the 175 gr ABLR would experience marginal stabilization in the Winchester rifles? Just a thought.
Joe

That's sorta what I have been wondering as well Joe. Both my 7mm WSM and 7mm Rem Mag's are Model 70's, so I know they are probably on the edge of being good with that ABLR. The 168 does shoot really well in my 7mm WSM so far. I am not completely finished with the load work with that bullet, but it is very easily knocking down about 3050 with that 168 ABLR.

I am messing around with the 150 Swift SII some in the 7mm Rem Mag at the moment, but if I were to get some 175's I would give them a try I think.

Elkman · Nov 14, 2013

As we speak I am loading some ABLR , 168's in my STW. I have been shooting the 175's but thought the 168's would give me a little flatter trajectory and slightly less recoil. The STW with the 175's is very similar to my 300 WM in trajectory and recoil. Scotty ran some ballistics stuff for me and found that the 168 ABLR exceeds the performance of the 180 PT after a few hundred yards. My intent when I bought the STW was to use it for longer ranges, but my heavier bullet choices have essentially given me a rifle similar to my already tried and true WM. If I get get the accuracy I want, I will switch over to the 168's

SJB358 · Nov 15, 2013

I think those 168's, if they shoot are going to be fearsome in your 7STW Bill. I know they shoot really well in my smaller 7mm WSM, so I am betting they are really going to scoot outta the STW. They have been very accurate for me as well..

I am doubting you'll put your 300 to the side though.. :lol:

remingtonman_25_06 · Nov 15, 2013

Very hard combo to beat out to 1k for a hunting/long range target round.

I like the 162 amaxs personally, but have a box of 168 LRAB on the way!!

We shall see how they perform to my beloved 162 amaxs anyway. I hope they are equally as accurate because I know the terminal performance is gonna be a not better on bigger stuff at closer ranges.

Charlie-NY · Nov 16, 2013

While shooting various 7mm mags over the years I have noticed that I get more Dead-Right-There kills when using the heavier bullets. More fragile lead just puts them down quicker, at least in my experience. Barnes bullets are the exception, but who needs a mono-metal bullet for deer hunting.

I've been using the Berger 180 VLD in my 7WSM for the last few years and am very pleased with the results on targets and game animals. However, I'm always tempted to try the latest & greatest bullets released. Sooo I just loaded up a bunch of 175gr LRAB bullets to see how they shoot. If they shoot well at the range, they'll be going afield soon.

sendero72 · Dec 4, 2013

Has anyone made a long range kill with the 7mag and 175 ablr? Some of the guys over on LRH.com have had terrible results with the 175's performance.

EOD Diver · Dec 4, 2013

Damn, that's a shame. With an SD of .310, a weight retention of a little under 50% (water jug tests on the forum) and a lower velocity threshold for expansion (compared to the regular AB) you would expect it to be a supreme performer. Was it specific to the 175? Did they have anything to say about their experiences with the 168s or 150s?

Joe

SJB358 · Dec 4, 2013

sendero72":2pbnie8b said:
Has anyone made a long range kill with the 7mag and 175 ablr? Some of the guys over on LRH.com have had terrible results with the 175's performance.

Is there a link to them? I'd like to read anything about them.

FOTIS · Dec 4, 2013

I am very fond of my 7mm rem mag Saage accustock and the 168 LRAB.

3115 fps and sub half MOA groups..

EOD Diver · Dec 4, 2013

Not sharpshootin' anyone, but this link was about all I could find on the topic and all these guys seemed pretty pleased:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ ... ndex3.html

Joe

brentc · Dec 6, 2013

Here you go. Read the story. It's quite a discussion. IMO better shot placement would have done the trick. The bullet did its job.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ ... ce-125820/

FOTIS · Dec 6, 2013

Or get closer? :mrgreen:

DrMike · Dec 6, 2013

brentc":g8wuocn5 said:
Here you go. Read the story. It's quite a discussion. IMO better shot placement would have done the trick. The bullet did its job.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ ... ce-125820/

Its difficult to see how the bullet failed. The shooter had opportunity to become a hunter and get closer, ensuring a good shot; he chose not to do so, trusting in his own prowess.

gerry · Dec 6, 2013

DrMike":3d8wyv6c said:
brentc":3d8wyv6c said:

Here you go. Read the story. It's quite a discussion. IMO better shot placement would have done the trick. The bullet did its job.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ ... ce-125820/

Click to expand...

Its difficult to see how the bullet failed. The shooter had opportunity to become a hunter and get closer, ensuring a good shot; he chose not to do so, trusting in his own prowess.

X 2, so much can go wrong when shooting at extreme range.

Nosler will no doubt tweak the design of each bullet, but I'm with the rest of you blaming the bullet in this case is a bit of a stretch.

SJB358 · Dec 6, 2013

I see both points on this. I think most folks are shooting big magnums and the ABLR's might be a touch soft for close encounters. There are a bunch of folks that do take the shots offered and also work to get close. I Don't fault them if they take the longish shots when they cannot hunt in closer and want a better bullet. I imagine the bullet will evolve as time goes on. Even the biggest LR shooters there, still concede, the best LR bullet that could be made is a PT'ed Boattail. Fast opening and deep penetrating. We as shooters are pretty spoiled, we have some of the greatest components ever made at our disposal right now.

It is interesting to see how they are being used and abused though. Good to see the weaknesses as well as all the good.