7mm RM - 160AB Loads

[Richracer1]

All, I've been trying to get a load worked up for a young man's 7RM using 160ABs, Win brass, Std Fed 215, and RL-22. I'm good up to 65gns and started out with a COL of 3.4" putting me .025 from the lands. 64.5gn gave me a best of 1 MOA at 3.4" I tried seating depths from 3.370" to 3.395" in .005 increments. Still, 1 MOA is the best achieved. I'm going to try 65gns again at 3.40" as I think I pulled the 3rd shot - the first two shots are almost one hole. Do you guys think I ought to try seating some deeper, such as 3.30 and out to ???????

Maybe this old Savage 7mm Rem Mag just won't shoot sub-MOA - I also don't want to be burning up a bunch powder, primers, and bullets when 1 MOA is acceptable for a hunting rifle.

By-the-way, the trigger sucks, has creep and is heavy. I'm use to 'smith adjusted or after market triggers set around 2.5 to 3lbs and break like glass.

 

[SJB358]

Rich, I would think 1MOA is doing pretty well with a beast of a trigger. Matter of fact, I think you will see it is really hard to consistently get below that with a tough trigger. Your load sounds spot on. I would try going shorter, maybe 1/4 seating stem turn at a time. I would think you are right around 2900-3000 with that load at 65gr's with MOA, you are doing pretty well out of a Savage with a creepy trigger. Good luck with it. Scotty

 

[nodak7mm]

RichRacer,

I am running a similar load in my 7mm RM. Except I am running 65.5grs RL22 & 162 Amax. I found this combo to work best at "touching the lands", however all rifles and bullets behave different. I ran charges from 64.0 to 66.3 at which point I started seeing signs of psi. I was also using Nosler brass.

So when I load for a new bullet, I have gone to an abbreviated Berger method. I have found I can narrow down my load faster instead initially working in .005 increments. Works for me...

The Berger method is:

"The quickest way to find this sweet spot is to load ammo at four different COAL. Start with a COAL that allows the bullet to touch the rifling. The next COAL needs to be .040 off the lands. The third COAL needs to be .080 off the lands. The last COAL needs to be .120 off the lands. One of these COAL will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. It has been reported that the VLD bullets don’t group as well at 100 yards but get better as the bullet “goes to sleep” at further ranges. We have learned that by doing the four COAL test you will find a COAL where the VLD bullets will group well at 100 yards. Once the COAL that shoots best is established you can tweak +/- .005 or .010 to increase precision or you can adjust powder charges and other load variables. Frankly, those who do the four COAL test usually are happy with the results they get from this test alone. "

 

[SJB358]

That looks like a pretty good way to find a load. How do you start, at the min load? Just wondering. I would be able to pretty much skip "at the lands" most of the time and just begin at the others. Just wondering where to start for a powder charge? Scotty

 

[Richracer1]

Well, I measured the RL-22 64.5gn, 3.40" group at .926" (1.210 - .284).

I'm going to go test one more time tomorrow morning, this time trying the following:
64.5gn with 3.405 and 3.410 COLs

65gn with 3.400 and 3.405 COLs (3.4" load is a re-try)

65.5gn with 3.400 COL

 

[SJB358]

Sounds like it is a shooting load! Hard to beat RL22 and 160gr bullets in a 7RM. I know since you all turned me on to it, it has been an awesome performer. Good luck at the range in the AM. Scotty

 

[JD338]

Rich,

I think the biggest issue you have is the trigger.
RL 22 is a great powder in the 7mm RM, maybe play with the COL but you are almost there!

JD338

 

[Richracer1]

Rich,

I think the biggest issue you have is the trigger.
RL 22 is a great powder in the 7mm RM, maybe play with the COL but you are almost there!

JD338

Well, as mentioned, this load developement is for the GF's son. If the above mentioned test rounds pan out, I'll present him with 50rds of that load on his B-day next Saturday otherwise I'll show him the targets and let him decide. Regardless, the 64.5gn/3.4" load is more accurate that the Federal ammo with the 150BT he was buying.

 

[Richracer1]

I went and tried those other loads I listed and didn't get any better groups. Now the other thing is, I took my chrono with me and boy, did I get very disappointing results. Here they are (all RL-22):
64.5gn - around 2840fps

65gn - around 2870fps

65.5gn - around 2890fps

I was hoping atleast 2950 to 3000fps, but I guess this rifle is just slow.

 

[JD338]

Rich,

That is really slow! I would have thought 2950-3050 fps.

JD338

 

[HTDUCK]

I'm floored.

I just fell into the 7 Mag fold and one of the two I have is a Savage 110 Tactical with a 24 inch barrel.
I'm loading 65 grs of RL22 in Federal cases with Federal 215 Match primer.
With 160 ABs I'm getting 3170 fps 10 feet from the muzzle and 3 shot groups that I can cover with dime at worst.
The only thing I have done to this rifle is make a few adjustments on the factory trigger.Took all of ten minutes with a couple of Allen wrenches.

The other rifle is a Wal-Mart Mdl 70 Black Shadow that at 64 grains it shot the first group into a nickle sized hole.
Haven't shot this rifle through the chrono so I can't give you a velocity figure.It's got a 26 inch barrel so I figure it to be at least on par with the Savage.
Got to admit,I got on Goolge and looked up the trigger on a Mdl 70.Took all of 20 minutes to remove the creep and set it at 3 lbs.
I have a safe full of Remington 700s but fell into this Mdl 70 at a price I couldn't turn down. It's the only Mdl 70 I've ever owned.

Having said that you must know this.I make my living as a mechanic and spend most of my time working on German cars

As far as the one MOA accuracy and the trigger,you need to massage this trigger.Savage triggers are for the most part very simple and easily
made liveable with nothing more than a few allen wrenches and a couple of minutes you'll never regret.

Take a few minute and google savageshooters.com.

 

[Richracer1]

I have a Rifle Basix trigger on order for it, but for this season, he'll have to live with the 64.5gn 160AB load and we'll work towards a faster (hopefully) and more accurate load next spring. I did talk with a 'smith today and he mentioned the old, non-Accu-trigger Savage triggers were junk and the best thing is to replace them. The young man agreed to pay me back for the trigger ($85 shipped from Rifle Basix) and I'll install it.

 

[Richracer1]

Going with my last post, I can't do anything about the dismal velocity RL-22 gave me, but the trigger should help out when I try another powder. Any suggestions on another powder; I don't have RL-25 or Win Supreme on hand, but I do have Retumbo, US869, H100V, H & I 4831, H & I 4350, and 7828. I was think of trying the 7828 or Retumbo.

P.S. after reading the other thread about potential chrono problems, I think I'm going to take the chrono with me when he and I go out for him to sight-in the rifle, maybe the rising sun (at my back) caused weird things.

I currently have it 2.5" high @ 100yds, but I'm a firm believer that the actual shooter needs to verify the scope settings - plus, he's shoots lefty and I shoot righty.

 

[DrMike]

Rich,

I certainly get the velocity with Supreme 780 and 160 PTs, but accuracy is lacking. However, recently I had some very fine groups with H100V and 160 PTs (0.59 inch and 3067 +/- 8 fps). I also have seen some good groups with 160 ABs and RL25.

 

[Richracer1]

Rich,

I certainly get the velocity with Supreme 780 and 160 PTs, but accuracy is lacking. However, recently I had some very fine groups with H100V and 160 PTs (0.59 inch and 3067 +/- 8 fps). I also have seen some good groups with 160 ABs and RL25.

Maybe I'll even try the GM215M primer instead of the std Fed 215 primer I used with this work-up.

I'm going to try to use powders I have on hand, obviously;
Here's the powders I have on hand:
H322
H380
H335
H4198
H4895
H414
H4350
H4831SC
Hybrid 100V
H1000
Retumbo
US869

IMR4064
IMR4198
IMR4350
IMR4831
IMR7828SSC


RL-10
RL-19
RL-22

 

[DrMike]

You won't get any more velocity with the GM215M, but it may prove more consistent. Of the powders you have on hand, the slower powders obviously should receive your focus. I have had reasonable success with several bullets and H1000 or Retumbo. I have not had good success yet with US869 on any cartridge, including the 7mm RM. Of course, RL22 is the classic powder for the 7mm RM. I had some exceptional groups recently with N560 and Sierra 160 HPs. I have not gotten back to these loads to retest them, but velocities were out of this world (3200 fps +). In fact, I backed off. However, at 3200 fps, accuracy was good and there were no pressure signs.

 

[Elkman]

Best load I have for my 7mm Mag is with H-4350 around 60 grains or so, Most accurate bullet is the Hornady 162 gr. BT SP it also likes Nosler PT but not as well as the Hornady. I would also bet that a great deal of your problem is with the trigger, you can't make a silk trigger out of a piece of junk. Good luck :grin:

 

[SJB358]

Rich, I am not really surprised by your speeds. My Weatherby gets about 2975 with 66gr of RL22. The rifle you shooting sounds like it is right in line with mine for speed, so it doesn't sound like it has a slow tube. I was kind of disappointed in my speeds also, not that there is anything wrong with 2975, but I just think a 7RM should be able to do better. I would try your slower powders like IMR7828, H1000 and the others, and see what you get. I don't think it would do you any good to go to a faster burn rate powder. It sounds like you have a great load, and it is in the 280+P range.

Can't wait to hear about the boy smacking down an elk or deer this year with the AccuBond. You might not be allowed to mess with his load if he gets lucky with this year. He will probably guard the rest of his loaded cartridges from you! Scotty

 

[Richracer1]

You won't get any more velocity with the GM215M, but it may prove more consistent. Of the powders you have on hand, the slower powders obviously should receive your focus. I have had reasonable success with several bullets and H1000 or Retumbo. I have not had good success yet with US869 on any cartridge, including the 7mm RM. Of course, RL22 is the classic powder for the 7mm RM. I had some exceptional groups recently with N560 and Sierra 160 HPs. I have not gotten back to these loads to retest them, but velocities were out of this world (3200 fps +). In fact, I backed off. However, at 3200 fps, accuracy was good and there were no pressure signs.

I wasn't going to use it with the RL-22 loads, but use them for future load work. I have more of the GM215M than I do the std 215.

 

[Richracer1]

Best load I have for my 7mm Mag is with H-4350 around 60 grains or so, Most accurate bullet is the Hornady 162 gr. BT SP it also likes Nosler PT but not as well as the Hornady. I would also bet that a great deal of your problem is with the trigger, you can't make a silk trigger out of a piece of junk. Good luck :grin:

That's why I told him I wasn't going to do any more load developement until it gets some trigger work done. Fortunately he agreed to pay me back for the Rifle Basix trigger I order yesterday.

I'd still like to find a load that has tighter groups and more velocity would be a bonus. Heck, if I can get a 3/4" group in the 2950 FPS range, I'd be very happy.