fine tuning the 25/06 :)
- Thread starter remingtonman_25_06
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Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
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I just kinda of always felt that the .25's were a little light and I never could get my head into using Bergers as DRT game bullets for that caliber. I have always used Partitions with any .257 rifles's that I have owned in any Model 70 from .250-3000 to .25-06. Just because of one deer with a Hornady that would not die dispite being clinically dead!
Wincheringen
Handloader
- Jan 10, 2012
- 931
- 1
I'm not using the Bergers for hunting. Besides its the 7mm/08s turn this year.
I was trying to improve on the 115 BT but I can't, so I've got about 70 of the Berger's left that I can still play with.
I was trying to improve on the 115 BT but I can't, so I've got about 70 of the Berger's left that I can still play with.
- Thread starter
- #24
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,806
- 403
I wouldn't use them based off what I've seen from the 7mm is all, I'd like to have a little more bullet weight when it gets there since they pretty much desintegrate inside...
I shot few coyotes with them, wet newspaper and jugs and its not a bullet that holds its weight very well at all. I just don't trust them as much as I'd like on close shots or running game, something that busts out of trees or sagebrush or a draw at 30-40 yards, ur gonna wished you had a different bullet, at least something that holds more then 20-25% of its weight anyway.
And people complain about NBTs...I don't get it. They have held at least 40-45% of there weight at least, that's almost double what a berger will do for ya and people still complain about NBTs being to explosive etc...
The berger in 257 cal just isn't worth the little if any gain in BC for consistent on game performance.
This is all just ones opinion however.
I shot few coyotes with them, wet newspaper and jugs and its not a bullet that holds its weight very well at all. I just don't trust them as much as I'd like on close shots or running game, something that busts out of trees or sagebrush or a draw at 30-40 yards, ur gonna wished you had a different bullet, at least something that holds more then 20-25% of its weight anyway.
And people complain about NBTs...I don't get it. They have held at least 40-45% of there weight at least, that's almost double what a berger will do for ya and people still complain about NBTs being to explosive etc...
The berger in 257 cal just isn't worth the little if any gain in BC for consistent on game performance.
This is all just ones opinion however.
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 816
- 142
I never tried the Berger bullets as they're pretty expensive here in UK, but from what you guys are saying about weight retention, it's probably just as well!
I have a thing about the additional flight & terminal advantage the Nosler 110gn AB will give at extreme range,
(Approx. 300/350yds) which is why I'm chasing a well performing load for my rifle.
From the Sierra Prohunter 1620 100gn bullets I recovered from hinds & stags over the last 3 years (That's only 3 bullets)
Each weighed in after washing them at close to 70% i.e. 68, 68.5 & 70gns.
These were recovered from shoulder/heart shots of approx 220yds.
None of the neck shot bullets were recovered & appear to have fragmented, the rest passed straight through.
This would be from a total of around 35 deer shot by me. So that bullet has performed well.View attachment 3View attachment 2 I attached pics of a typical example of the bullets I did recover.
If I get that or better from the AB's, I will be well pleased. Cheers, ET
I have a thing about the additional flight & terminal advantage the Nosler 110gn AB will give at extreme range,
(Approx. 300/350yds) which is why I'm chasing a well performing load for my rifle.
From the Sierra Prohunter 1620 100gn bullets I recovered from hinds & stags over the last 3 years (That's only 3 bullets)
Each weighed in after washing them at close to 70% i.e. 68, 68.5 & 70gns.
These were recovered from shoulder/heart shots of approx 220yds.
None of the neck shot bullets were recovered & appear to have fragmented, the rest passed straight through.
This would be from a total of around 35 deer shot by me. So that bullet has performed well.View attachment 3View attachment 2 I attached pics of a typical example of the bullets I did recover.
If I get that or better from the AB's, I will be well pleased. Cheers, ET
WOW! I can see why you like them so much ET. Those bullets held up REALLY well at 25-06 speeds for sure. That is some excellent performance. Not sure it gets too much better than them actually. Thanks for posting them up here. You'll have to update the bullet test section with them, that is great info.
How fast do they come out of the muzzle of your rifle?
How fast do they come out of the muzzle of your rifle?
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,853
- 6,387
Remingtonman_25_06 - am enjoying reading 'bout your load development progress. As I recall you've made some very impressive long range kills with the .25-06 in the past.
Quite a while back I settled on 53 gr H4350 with the 100 gr bullets for about 3340 fps mv for a 100 gr load and it did well.
Decided a little more bullet weight was what I really had in mind and stepped up to the 115's, and learned that Retumbo worked well with those bullets, easing them right on up to nearly 3200 fps with good accuracy. I had to drop the charge a bit for the 115 Ballistic Tips.
Used the 115 Berger on three mule deer at 175, 230 and 400 yards. The bullets worked well in each case. Am back though to my 115 gr Partitions & Ballistic Tips.
ET, ccoker & all, thanks for contributing to this discussion - the .25-06 has become one of my favorite rifle cartridges. Easy to shoot, easy to load. Flat trajectory. Accurate. Lethal as all get out.
Some years back at deer camp, it dawned on me that the deer being taken with .243's, 6mm Rem & .25-06 were all hitting the deck just as fast, if not faster, than the deer hit with the bigger cartridges. I gave up all reservations about being "under-gunned" after I thought through our experiences on mule deer over the years. The fast little bullets do a fine job, without kicking the snot out of the shooter.
Regards, Guy
Quite a while back I settled on 53 gr H4350 with the 100 gr bullets for about 3340 fps mv for a 100 gr load and it did well.
Decided a little more bullet weight was what I really had in mind and stepped up to the 115's, and learned that Retumbo worked well with those bullets, easing them right on up to nearly 3200 fps with good accuracy. I had to drop the charge a bit for the 115 Ballistic Tips.
Used the 115 Berger on three mule deer at 175, 230 and 400 yards. The bullets worked well in each case. Am back though to my 115 gr Partitions & Ballistic Tips.
ET, ccoker & all, thanks for contributing to this discussion - the .25-06 has become one of my favorite rifle cartridges. Easy to shoot, easy to load. Flat trajectory. Accurate. Lethal as all get out.
Some years back at deer camp, it dawned on me that the deer being taken with .243's, 6mm Rem & .25-06 were all hitting the deck just as fast, if not faster, than the deer hit with the bigger cartridges. I gave up all reservations about being "under-gunned" after I thought through our experiences on mule deer over the years. The fast little bullets do a fine job, without kicking the snot out of the shooter.
Regards, Guy
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 816
- 142
Not sure why, but there are two threads in different locations on the site & I'm into them both!
I think you're bang on Guy, I don't believe you're undergunned with the .25-06. not when it will deliver accuracy and punch out to a fair range.
There have been some very big stags taken with this cartridge in the UK and quite a number of professional stalkers are into it especially as the recoil is so light, you can see quarry reaction to shot and can see when bullet placement is right -- or not!
Anyway, I've been to the range today & the detail from the IMR4831 load is not great.
Chrono speeds were 3003fps to 3039fps. The average is 3025fps & the ES 36fps.
Muzzle energy would be 2235ft lbs & that doesn't equal what the 100gn Sierra is @ 2418 ft lbs.
Disappointingly slow really, so I'm wondering how far I may be able to go with the charge.
At 51gns, I'm already at the max bible listing for the propellant.The top & bottom is I need more coal on the fire !
I think you're bang on Guy, I don't believe you're undergunned with the .25-06. not when it will deliver accuracy and punch out to a fair range.
There have been some very big stags taken with this cartridge in the UK and quite a number of professional stalkers are into it especially as the recoil is so light, you can see quarry reaction to shot and can see when bullet placement is right -- or not!
Anyway, I've been to the range today & the detail from the IMR4831 load is not great.
Chrono speeds were 3003fps to 3039fps. The average is 3025fps & the ES 36fps.
Muzzle energy would be 2235ft lbs & that doesn't equal what the 100gn Sierra is @ 2418 ft lbs.
Disappointingly slow really, so I'm wondering how far I may be able to go with the charge.
At 51gns, I'm already at the max bible listing for the propellant.The top & bottom is I need more coal on the fire !
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 816
- 142
SJB358":2xzzkbwv said:
These were pedalling at an average of 3320fps when chrono'd last year with an ES of 22fps Scotty.
It's not at all bad from short stumpy thunderstick!
In fact I just chrono'd 3 rounds of this load today alongside the 110's and the reading are all but the same, just showing a few fps quicker...maybe 'cos it's warm here just now??
Cheers, ET 8)
ET, I think we can find some more coal for your load. I know 3000 isn't as much as you were hoping for, BUT, what does the additional BC get you at 300-350 yards in energy retention compared to the 100 grain Sierra? Just wondering if it wouldn't be about the same, with additional bullet mass? I will look into it some in a few minutes when I get back onto my PC.
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 816
- 142
Thanks Scotty, I have no idea what it might return downrange.
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 816
- 142
Yup, - I'll do that & see what they show. Cheers.SJB358":cklb59yc said:
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
Elmer, not the best aligned chart in the book but here are the 3000 fps, .257 caliber, 110 gr Ballistic tip numbers from the Sierra Suite I6 software.
Range(Yards) Velocity(Ft/Sec) Energy(Ft/Lbs) Bullet Path(inches) Bullet Path(1 MoA) Wind Drift(inches) Wind Drift(1 MoA) Time of Flight(Seconds)
0 3000 2197.9 -1.5 0 0 0 0
100 2773.3 1878.2 1.51 1.4 0 0 0.104
200 2557.8 1597.7 0 0 0 0 0.2167
300 2352.2 1351.1 -6.84 -2.2 0 0 0.339
400 2156.1 1135.2 -19.98 -4.8 0 0 0.4722
Range(Yards) Velocity(Ft/Sec) Energy(Ft/Lbs) Bullet Path(inches) Bullet Path(1 MoA) Wind Drift(inches) Wind Drift(1 MoA) Time of Flight(Seconds)
0 3000 2197.9 -1.5 0 0 0 0
100 2773.3 1878.2 1.51 1.4 0 0 0.104
200 2557.8 1597.7 0 0 0 0 0.2167
300 2352.2 1351.1 -6.84 -2.2 0 0 0.339
400 2156.1 1135.2 -19.98 -4.8 0 0 0.4722
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 816
- 142
Thanks OT3, you guys are a mine of info.
Yesterday was not a good day - recovery time needed after crawling into a bottle of 16 yr old Lagavulin at a wedding!
I was definitely in a condition, but now thankfully back in the land of the living!
Yesterday was not a good day - recovery time needed after crawling into a bottle of 16 yr old Lagavulin at a wedding!
I was definitely in a condition, but now thankfully back in the land of the living!
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
Not much of a single malt drinker, but I have certainly been there in that afterworld. I am happy that you feel better today.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,522
- 6,565
Good to be alive. We all need a break now and then.
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 816
- 142
I loaded 12 rounds yesterday with the 110gn AB & different propellants, then went to the range. The targets are attached.
The ones I was most interested in is the first one(IMR4831). I only loaded 3 rounds each of the IMR4831 & IMR4650.
I loaded 5 rounds of Rel.22
I wanted to check the increased charge of 51.6gns IMR4831 to see what happened also, increasing the charge on the other two propellants I'm still looking at.
The 1st target shows the 1st two shots on an absolutely cold & clean barrel. (Exactly on scope zero approx. 150yds) I pulled the 3rd shot badly. That shot printed 2" lower than the red target centre.
I have no idea why, but I guess lack of concentration as David A good friend had his boys on the range practicing..they left for the Highlands and a week on the stags this morning.
However, I'm more than happy with the 1st two shots and now I'm going to increase the charge some more until I see the primer flattening some. At the moment, there are no pressure signs. Nothing at all & the primers are not flattened much, so I have room for more propellant...then I'll chrono again.
I'm guessing it'll max out at around 52.5gns IMR4831...but I don't know yet, we'll see. I need to maintain the accuracy, increase the MV & subsequent downrange energy. It's going the right direction, that's the main thing.
The 2nd target is IMR4350 and the shot right of centre, is 1st on a cool barrel. The other two printing higher are the subsequent shots.
I don't think I pulled the 1st shot, but can check that load again.
The 3rd target is Rel.22 & again shows 1st shot on cool barrel low with all the rest, group approx. 1" but much higher. There is a definite primer flattening with this charge, but no other signs of pressure.
The ones I was most interested in is the first one(IMR4831). I only loaded 3 rounds each of the IMR4831 & IMR4650.
I loaded 5 rounds of Rel.22
I wanted to check the increased charge of 51.6gns IMR4831 to see what happened also, increasing the charge on the other two propellants I'm still looking at.
The 1st target shows the 1st two shots on an absolutely cold & clean barrel. (Exactly on scope zero approx. 150yds) I pulled the 3rd shot badly. That shot printed 2" lower than the red target centre.
I have no idea why, but I guess lack of concentration as David A good friend had his boys on the range practicing..they left for the Highlands and a week on the stags this morning.
However, I'm more than happy with the 1st two shots and now I'm going to increase the charge some more until I see the primer flattening some. At the moment, there are no pressure signs. Nothing at all & the primers are not flattened much, so I have room for more propellant...then I'll chrono again.
I'm guessing it'll max out at around 52.5gns IMR4831...but I don't know yet, we'll see. I need to maintain the accuracy, increase the MV & subsequent downrange energy. It's going the right direction, that's the main thing.
The 2nd target is IMR4350 and the shot right of centre, is 1st on a cool barrel. The other two printing higher are the subsequent shots.
I don't think I pulled the 1st shot, but can check that load again.
The 3rd target is Rel.22 & again shows 1st shot on cool barrel low with all the rest, group approx. 1" but much higher. There is a definite primer flattening with this charge, but no other signs of pressure.
