Hello, I am new to the forum, I am a young hobby gunsmith and sometimes my ideas get out of hand, I have a 1903/14/27 mannlicher-schoenauer action that I anticipate to chamber in 7x57ai 17.5" barrel and I have 2 questions. Firstly, I know given the barrel length I will lose some velocity, but what are some loads that I can load to get started and what powders do you recommend. Right now I'm a little limited, l have Accurate 3100 and from what I have seen it will push 150 grains close to 2650 at 50250 psi in 24 inch barrel. I'm looking to use 130 grain bullets and stay under 55000 psi, what are my options with 3100 or should I look into getting a different powder? In addition to this I have not found a straight answer online wether this action can handle modern pressure, it was made in the late 1920s for the greek military but at the same time they were made commercially in 30-06 which specs at 60000 psi so I assume I would be more than safe at 55000?
7x57ai mannlicher-schoenauer
- Thread starter djs987
- Start date
salmonchaser
Ammo Smith
- Dec 13, 2013
- 5,775
- 7,770
Welcome aboard. I’m one of several 7x57 fans here; however, mine is a ruger #1 so I’ll load her quite a bit hotter than you should I would think. I’ve had good luck with H4350, Rl 17 and R26. H4350 or IMR 4064 should work well for you. I am unfamiliar with 3100.
3100 is pretty similar to H4831. I think you’ll be very slow with that and probably a touch unbalanced with a 130 in that case. I’d look at 7-08 data for what they recommend for 130’s.
I’d be in the 4064, 4895, SB6.5, Big Game and similar range to get what you can from that short of a barrel.
I’d be in the 4064, 4895, SB6.5, Big Game and similar range to get what you can from that short of a barrel.
- Thread starter
- #4
Thank you guys for giving me an idea of where to start, I probably should have went a little longer on the barrel but too late now lol, I wanted something handy in the woods. What do you say as far as chamber pressure, my original goal as mentioned was to try to stay at or below 55000 but if the action can handle more I will likely load hotter. I guess what I am trying to say is do you think it is safe to load to modern pressure or keep it lighter, also is there a way to calculate/a place to find information on chamber pressure?
ElmerThud
Handloader
- Jul 16, 2011
- 833
- 200
I have a friend who had a M1903 6.5x54MSch & he rechambered to 7x57 - NOT Ai... it works - sort of, but the bolt face is slightly different to the 6.5x54 cartridge & ejection of spent case is somewhat frustrating! My friend is a well known gunsmith here in UK & tho' he lives with the frustration, he acknowledges it's a pain in the ass. Anyway, he's done it for better or worse. Check very carefully before you go ahead. I think I'd be dubious about modern pressures in the old MSch actions.
Your 17.5" barrel sounds like it's a 'Stutzen' (Full Stock) carbine usually with an 18" barrel.. I have 2 MSch M1903 rifles - one is a stutzen & the 18" barrel is fine with MV with the 6.5x54MSch cartridge. These rifles were used in the early 1900's in Arica on big game by some well known hunters of the time. Also later when Rigby introduced the .275 (7x57)
I had the shot out barrel on my M1903(Half stock) replaced with a Krieger barrel here in UK to the exact same chambering of 6.5x54MSch & it's superbly accurate. The gunsmith profiled the new Krieger barrel alongside my original barrel & did a great job. Didn't have to make any changes to the rifle stock.
Personally, I'd love to own a MSch 7x57 (.275Rigby) but they're like rocking horse shit to find a decent one.
Good luck
Last edited:
salmonchaser
Ammo Smith
- Dec 13, 2013
- 5,775
- 7,770
Ok, I am going to use “rocking horse S***” next time I go to our local hardware store that never has what I need.
clearwater
Handloader
- Feb 5, 2005
- 700
- 664
Best powders in my 275 rigby improved, 22 inch barrel, short action-
Imr 4350
Rx 17
W Staball 6.5
Imr 4350
Rx 17
W Staball 6.5
Another fan of the 7x57 and frankly see no need for improving the cartridge. I have three rifles chambered to the 7x57, a Ruger #1A, Winchester M70 Featherweight and a custom based on a commercial FN Mauser action.
I see several potential problems with the conversion. One, the difference in the bolt head size which someone has mentioned plus the difference in cartridge length of the spool type magazine not to mention the different case shape of the improved version. I've owned a couple of M/S rifles in the Past and still have a Greek action laying around somewhere in my shed. That spool in the magazine is cartridge specific and trying to convert one to a different cartridge is IMHO an exercise it frustraton. The only one that might work without serious alteration might be the 6.5 Jap. used as is. I hate to rain on anyone's parade but frankly, I think you're going to run into more trouble than it's worth.
As far as load data goes, I'm using 7-08 data in the three rifles I own. I have no problem with 2800 FPS and the 150 gr. Nosler Partition at 2800 FPS although I had it at a bit warmer at 2880 FPS with a bit of slight bolt stiffness. IIRC, it was about 105 degrees that summer day. I do all my work ups during our very hot summers. Come hunting season I reshoot the load and make any necessary scope adjustments. Usually here in Arizona there isn't need to make sight changes but on elk hunts in New Mexico when it's four above zero there may be need to readjust the scope.
You might gry and find a copy of BOLT ACTION RIFLES by Frank De Haas and read the chapter on the 1903 Greek M/S rifles. It's a good read.
Paul B.
I see several potential problems with the conversion. One, the difference in the bolt head size which someone has mentioned plus the difference in cartridge length of the spool type magazine not to mention the different case shape of the improved version. I've owned a couple of M/S rifles in the Past and still have a Greek action laying around somewhere in my shed. That spool in the magazine is cartridge specific and trying to convert one to a different cartridge is IMHO an exercise it frustraton. The only one that might work without serious alteration might be the 6.5 Jap. used as is. I hate to rain on anyone's parade but frankly, I think you're going to run into more trouble than it's worth.
As far as load data goes, I'm using 7-08 data in the three rifles I own. I have no problem with 2800 FPS and the 150 gr. Nosler Partition at 2800 FPS although I had it at a bit warmer at 2880 FPS with a bit of slight bolt stiffness. IIRC, it was about 105 degrees that summer day. I do all my work ups during our very hot summers. Come hunting season I reshoot the load and make any necessary scope adjustments. Usually here in Arizona there isn't need to make sight changes but on elk hunts in New Mexico when it's four above zero there may be need to readjust the scope.
You might gry and find a copy of BOLT ACTION RIFLES by Frank De Haas and read the chapter on the 1903 Greek M/S rifles. It's a good read.
Paul B.
- Thread starter
- #9
Thank you everyone for your help, it seems like I'll have a good place to start, I've been looking into slower burning powders that would work good with my goals and I anticipate to have the rifle ready for the woods (not pretty and polished yet) by sometime in January
longrangehunter
Handloader
- Jun 19, 2011
- 1,753
- 558
I’d be cautious about using any load data over 50K psi with your action. Better to be safe than sorry. Originally it was designed to handle 45K psi, or 40K cup.
