8x56 Mannlicher Schoenauer reloading data?

[duckcreekdick]

I recently picked up a nice 1908 Mannlicher Schoenauer carbine in 8x56M-S. Day before yesterday I got in my dies from the good folks at C-H4D and already have 25 cases formed and trimmed from 8X57 brass. What I need is some up-to-date reloading data for the 170 gr. bullets I plan to use. Any help would save me a lot of time since I plan to start out pretty low and work up, chronographing all the way and watching for any problems or pressure signs. From my old 1936 Stoegers catalog I see that factory loads show 2515fps with the 170 gr. bullet but I would be happy with less velocity with acceptable accuracy. Thanks in advance!

 

[DrMike]

What bullet are you wanting to use on the old gal? There are very few .329 bullets supplied. DKT does offer a 210 grain bullet. Here is data for that bullet.

Cartridge : 8 x 56 Mannl.-Schoenauer
Bullet : .329, 210, DKT SpSP #31 Hung/Murat
Useable Case Capaci: 53.840 grain H2O = 3.496 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Vihtavuori N550

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 39.60 1917 1713 24407 6584 86.0 1.655
-18.0 80 40.59 1965 1800 25948 6816 87.3 1.615
-16.0 82 41.58 2013 1889 27589 7043 88.6 1.576
-14.0 84 42.57 2061 1981 29339 7267 89.8 1.537
-12.0 86 43.56 2110 2076 31203 7485 90.9 1.500
-10.0 88 44.55 2158 2172 33192 7697 92.0 1.463
-08.0 90 45.54 2207 2271 35316 7903 93.1 1.427
-06.0 92 46.53 2256 2373 37581 8102 94.0 1.389
-04.0 94 47.52 2305 2477 40008 8293 94.9 1.351 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 96 48.51 2354 2583 42599 8475 95.8 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 49.50 2402 2691 45372 8648 96.5 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 100 50.49 2451 2802 48318 8811 97.2 1.239 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 51.48 2500 2915 51448 8963 97.8 1.205 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 52.47 2549 3029 54794 9103 98.4 1.171 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 105 53.46 2598 3146 58376 9232 98.8 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 107 54.45 2646 3265 62212 9348 99.2 1.108 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 49.50 2531 2987 55067 8624 99.8 1.176 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 49.50 2235 2330 36407 8215 89.0 1.401

Cartridge : 8 x 56 Mannl.-Schoenauer
Bullet : .329, 210, DKT SpSP #31 Hung/Murat
Useable Case Capaci: 53.840 grain H2O = 3.496 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 45500 psi, or 313 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

11 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60 97.4 50.7 3.29 2469 99.3 45500 9136 1.245 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 108.4 56.1 3.64 2456 92.5 45500 9600 1.249 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 104.5 51.6 3.34 2455 99.5 45500 8745 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 96.6 50.3 3.26 2454 98.6 45500 8983 1.249 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 96.6 50.3 3.26 2454 98.6 45500 8983 1.249 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 99.7 51.8 3.36 2435 97.2 45500 8835 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 100.2 53.0 3.43 2435 95.4 45500 9155 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 110.0 55.2 3.58 2424 90.6 45456 9212 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 110.0 55.2 3.58 2424 90.6 45456 9212 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 110.0 55.2 3.58 2424 90.6 45456 9212 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 109.5 55.5 3.60 2421 87.4 45500 9290 1.254 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 101.2 50.2 3.25 2414 96.9 45500 8680 1.279 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 98.0 51.8 3.36 2410 94.5 45500 8771 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 100.9 49.5 3.21 2409 96.7 45500 8594 1.265 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.9 49.5 3.21 2409 96.7 45500 8591 1.265 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 101.2 51.9 3.36 2409 94.5 45500 8758 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 97.7 49.5 3.21 2405 96.6 45500 8655 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 95.5 50.2 3.25 2401 93.5 45500 8664 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 95.5 50.2 3.25 2401 93.5 45500 8664 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 110.0 58.0 3.76 2399 84.8 44902 9189 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 106.2 50.5 3.27 2399 97.0 45500 8467 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 92.7 47.5 3.08 2396 98.4 45500 8314 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 103.7 49.8 3.23 2388 98.5 45500 8106 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 107.2 54.7 3.54 2385 87.3 45500 8904 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 105.4 52.3 3.39 2385 90.7 45500 8663 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 106.1 52.7 3.41 2379 90.7 45500 8596 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 106.7 53.5 3.47 2379 92.5 45500 8504 1.274 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 93.0 46.7 3.02 2374 98.9 45500 8127 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 93.0 46.7 3.02 2374 98.9 45500 8127 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 107.7 54.0 3.50 2372 87.1 45500 8767 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 104.3 51.5 3.34 2371 90.2 45500 8529 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 109.5 59.2 3.84 2370 89.9 45500 8795 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 95.1 46.7 3.03 2368 98.7 45500 8045 1.296 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 90.8 45.0 2.92 2366 98.1 45500 8091 1.287 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 100.9 50.9 3.30 2364 93.1 45500 8314 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 90.2 44.8 2.90 2364 97.6 45500 8098 1.287 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 90.2 44.8 2.90 2364 97.6 45500 8098 1.287 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 90.2 44.8 2.90 2364 97.6 45500 8098 1.287 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 99.7 51.1 3.31 2363 90.4 45500 8386 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 103.0 51.1 3.31 2363 90.4 45500 8386 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 103.0 51.1 3.31 2363 90.4 45500 8386 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 92.5 44.9 2.91 2358 100.0 45500 7675 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 110.0 54.2 3.51 2358 87.1 44160 8615 1.278 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 110.0 54.6 3.54 2356 94.0 43302 8456 1.305 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 94.4 45.9 2.97 2355 98.5 45500 7964 1.294 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 92.0 46.6 3.02 2354 96.3 45500 8127 1.290 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15 110.0 54.0 3.50 2348 88.7 41522 8892 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 110.0 54.0 3.50 2348 88.7 41522 8892 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 99.3 48.8 3.16 2345 93.8 45500 8165 1.292 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 90.1 46.5 3.01 2343 96.4 45500 7940 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 104.3 54.6 3.54 2343 90.2 45500 8222 1.265 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 91.3 46.8 3.03 2339 96.3 45500 7902 1.287 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 106.3 53.3 3.46 2339 87.1 45500 8259 1.265 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 101.8 49.4 3.20 2338 92.4 45500 8014 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 99.9 49.3 3.20 2338 92.6 45500 8007 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 103.4 50.6 3.28 2330 89.0 45500 8041 1.271 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 97.6 47.4 3.07 2329 95.2 45500 7931 1.296 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 110.0 53.1 3.44 2325 86.7 44691 8201 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 110.0 58.3 3.78 2313 85.2 42095 8830 1.303 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 96.2 46.9 3.04 2313 92.7 45500 7859 1.294 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 96.2 46.9 3.04 2313 92.7 45500 7859 1.294 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 93.2 46.9 3.04 2313 92.6 45500 7854 1.294 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 110.0 55.7 3.61 2308 83.2 44118 8287 1.284 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 110.0 58.3 3.78 2307 84.9 41873 8806 1.307 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 110.0 54.0 3.50 2306 90.4 42953 8038 1.300 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 110.0 52.3 3.39 2304 88.4 44801 7850 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361 102.6 54.2 3.51 2304 87.6 45500 7847 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 110.0 53.1 3.44 2299 85.1 41005 8529 1.319 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 110.0 54.3 3.52 2281 90.9 37686 8866 1.366
ADI AP 2214 110.0 56.7 3.67 2280 84.3 42629 8345 1.302 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 93.1 48.2 3.13 2271 92.2 45500 7388 1.300 ! Near Maximum !

 

[DrMike]

Mia culpa, Dick. I made a rather common mistake when I sought and posted data for the 8X56 Hungarian Shoenauer. I generated data for a .329 bullet rather than the .323 bullet used in the 8X56 M-S.

Cartridges of the World show 44 grains of IMR 4895 with a 170 grain bullet delivering a velocity of 2260 fps.

Here is some better data:

Cartridge : 8 x 56 Mannl.-Schoenauer
Bullet : .323, 180, Nosler BalTip 32180
Useable Case Capaci: 52.052 grain H2O = 3.380 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 76 36.40 2044 1669 24954 6188 86.0 1.542
-18.0 78 37.31 2093 1751 26513 6398 87.3 1.505
-16.0 80 38.22 2143 1835 28170 6605 88.5 1.469
-14.0 82 39.13 2193 1922 29934 6808 89.6 1.434
-12.0 83 40.04 2243 2010 31807 7007 90.7 1.400
-10.0 85 40.95 2292 2101 33778 7201 91.8 1.367
-08.0 87 41.86 2342 2193 35851 7389 92.8 1.335
-06.0 89 42.77 2392 2287 38043 7571 93.7 1.301
-04.0 91 43.68 2442 2384 40370 7746 94.6 1.266 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 93 44.59 2492 2482 42839 7914 95.4 1.231 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 45.50 2542 2582 45462 8074 96.1 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 97 46.41 2591 2684 48248 8225 96.8 1.166 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 99 47.32 2641 2788 51210 8368 97.4 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 101 48.23 2690 2893 54359 8501 98.0 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 102 49.14 2740 3000 57711 8624 98.5 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 104 50.05 2789 3108 61280 8737 98.9 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 95 45.50 2673 2856 54561 8074 99.6 1.109 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 95 45.50 2372 2249 36714 7682 88.8 1.314


Cartridge : 8 x 56 Mannl.-Schoenauer
Bullet : .323, 180, Nosler BalTip 32180
Useable Case Capaci: 52.052 grain H2O = 3.380 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 45511 psi, or 313 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

2 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60 102.5 51.6 3.34 2615 97.1 45511 8985 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 101.8 51.2 3.32 2605 96.2 45511 8800 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 101.8 51.2 3.32 2605 96.2 45511 8800 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 110.0 52.5 3.40 2603 97.7 44986 8636 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 105.4 53.0 3.43 2593 94.5 45511 8623 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 107.4 51.5 3.34 2581 94.3 45511 8499 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 103.5 50.7 3.29 2568 94.0 45511 8456 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 106.6 50.6 3.28 2566 94.0 45511 8376 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 106.6 50.6 3.28 2566 94.0 45511 8373 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 105.1 53.7 3.48 2565 91.6 45511 8758 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 98.2 48.7 3.15 2562 96.3 45511 8192 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 103.2 52.7 3.42 2554 91.2 45511 8438 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 106.6 52.8 3.42 2552 91.2 45511 8424 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 100.8 51.2 3.32 2550 90.2 45511 8345 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 100.8 51.2 3.32 2550 90.2 45511 8345 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 98.7 47.9 3.10 2544 97.2 45511 8058 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 98.7 47.9 3.10 2544 97.2 45511 8058 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 90.9 47.6 3.08 2543 97.3 45511 8025 1.196 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 94.9 45.5 2.95 2543 96.2 45511 8076 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 109.3 50.8 3.29 2541 96.2 45511 7947 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 98.6 46.3 3.00 2540 99.6 45511 7781 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 100.9 47.9 3.10 2536 96.8 45511 7965 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 96.2 46.1 2.99 2533 96.1 45511 7982 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 92.8 43.6 2.82 2532 100.0 45511 7469 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 91.2 46.1 2.99 2530 98.9 45511 7692 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 93.3 46.1 2.99 2530 98.9 45511 7692 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 95.6 45.9 2.97 2528 95.4 45511 7968 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 95.6 45.9 2.97 2528 95.4 45511 7968 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 95.6 45.9 2.97 2528 95.4 45511 7968 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 100.0 47.0 3.04 2521 96.6 45511 7866 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 97.2 47.7 3.09 2512 93.6 45511 7929 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 106.4 51.8 3.36 2511 89.7 45511 7987 1.188 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 110.0 52.8 3.42 2502 86.4 44631 8161 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 95.2 47.5 3.08 2500 93.8 45511 7747 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 110.0 50.5 3.28 2498 93.3 42192 8084 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 109.3 52.2 3.38 2498 85.9 45511 8056 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 104.9 49.8 3.23 2497 90.7 45511 7894 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 108.1 51.9 3.36 2496 86.5 45511 7960 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 104.7 51.9 3.36 2496 86.5 45511 7960 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 108.1 51.9 3.36 2496 86.5 45511 7960 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 96.4 47.8 3.10 2496 93.7 45511 7708 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 93.0 43.7 2.83 2486 97.5 45511 7512 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 91.4 47.1 3.05 2482 93.4 45511 7613 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 105.2 50.2 3.25 2482 89.2 45511 7683 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 103.1 48.4 3.13 2482 92.4 45511 7698 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 107.2 50.3 3.26 2481 89.0 45511 7684 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 94.9 43.9 2.84 2479 97.4 45511 7424 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 110.0 52.8 3.42 2475 85.8 43622 8016 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 90.7 41.3 2.68 2473 99.2 45511 7244 1.235 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 110.0 55.1 3.57 2470 85.5 40235 8653 1.244 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 109.0 55.2 3.57 2464 85.8 45511 7737 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 108.5 51.3 3.33 2463 85.0 45511 7621 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 101.3 47.7 3.09 2459 89.4 45511 7560 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 101.3 47.7 3.09 2459 89.4 45511 7560 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 98.1 47.7 3.09 2458 89.4 45511 7555 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 110.0 53.4 3.46 2458 87.6 41967 7923 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361 107.6 55.0 3.56 2435 83.7 45511 7413 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 110.0 54.2 3.51 2433 80.5 42363 8029 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 110.0 53.4 3.46 2427 81.8 43756 7614 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 110.0 53.4 3.46 2411 80.3 41803 7860 1.232 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 97.9 49.0 3.18 2411 88.9 45511 7081 1.218 ! Near Maximum !


Cartridge : 8 x 56 Mannl.-Schoenauer
Bullet : .323, 170, Hornady RN 3235
Useable Case Capaci: 60.699 grain H2O = 3.941 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 73 40.80 2157 1757 25417 7084 86.8 1.486
-18.0 75 41.82 2209 1842 26992 7323 88.0 1.452
-16.0 77 42.84 2261 1930 28642 7559 89.2 1.418
-14.0 78 43.86 2313 2020 30369 7789 90.4 1.385
-12.0 80 44.88 2365 2112 32189 8015 91.5 1.353
-10.0 82 45.90 2417 2206 34115 8235 92.5 1.322
-08.0 84 46.92 2469 2301 36153 8448 93.4 1.292
-06.0 86 47.94 2521 2399 38308 8654 94.4 1.259
-04.0 88 48.96 2573 2499 40589 8852 95.2 1.225 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 89 49.98 2625 2601 43002 9041 96.0 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 91 51.00 2676 2704 45555 9222 96.7 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 93 52.02 2728 2809 48258 9393 97.3 1.130 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 95 53.04 2779 2916 51119 9554 97.9 1.100 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 97 54.06 2830 3024 54150 9704 98.4 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 98 55.08 2881 3134 57361 9843 98.8 1.044 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 100 56.10 2932 3245 60767 9970 99.2 1.018 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 91 51.00 2811 2984 54352 9203 99.8 1.074 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 91 51.00 2501 2361 37084 8796 89.7 1.274



Cartridge : 8 x 56 Mannl.-Schoenauer
Bullet : .323, 170, Hornady RN 3235
Useable Case Capaci: 60.699 grain H2O = 3.941 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 45511 psi, or 313 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

9 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60 98.9 58.0 3.76 2764 97.9 45511 10266 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 106.2 59.1 3.83 2755 98.4 45511 9876 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 98.1 57.6 3.73 2750 97.0 45511 10061 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 98.1 57.6 3.73 2750 97.0 45511 10061 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 109.8 64.1 4.15 2736 89.7 45511 10487 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 101.3 59.4 3.85 2732 95.3 45511 9863 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 101.5 60.5 3.92 2719 93.0 45511 10090 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 102.9 57.6 3.73 2711 95.0 45511 9704 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 102.6 56.8 3.68 2704 94.8 45511 9585 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 102.6 56.8 3.68 2704 94.8 45511 9582 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 99.4 56.8 3.68 2701 94.7 45511 9646 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 99.5 59.3 3.84 2698 92.2 45511 9692 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 102.8 59.4 3.85 2697 92.2 45511 9677 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 94.4 54.5 3.53 2696 96.9 45511 9350 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 108.0 57.9 3.75 2694 95.1 45511 9460 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 97.1 57.4 3.72 2692 91.2 45511 9591 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 97.1 57.4 3.72 2692 91.2 45511 9591 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 105.3 57.0 3.70 2683 96.9 45511 9109 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 91.1 51.0 3.30 2675 96.7 45511 9218 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 94.7 53.6 3.47 2674 97.6 45511 9178 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 94.7 53.6 3.47 2674 97.6 45511 9178 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 110.0 62.9 4.08 2669 83.7 44203 9968 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 106.9 59.8 3.87 2667 88.1 45511 9497 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 96.8 53.6 3.47 2666 97.3 45511 9085 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 92.4 51.7 3.35 2666 96.6 45511 9115 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 94.4 51.7 3.35 2664 99.7 45511 8832 1.196 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 108.3 61.2 3.97 2664 90.1 45511 9372 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 91.8 51.4 3.33 2662 96.0 45511 9109 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 91.8 51.4 3.33 2662 96.0 45511 9109 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 91.8 51.4 3.33 2662 96.0 45511 9109 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 107.6 60.2 3.90 2659 88.0 45511 9417 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 110.0 62.2 4.03 2659 86.8 43360 9868 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 110.0 62.2 4.03 2659 86.8 43360 9868 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 110.0 62.2 4.03 2659 86.8 43360 9868 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 108.6 62.4 4.04 2656 84.0 45511 9659 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 96.1 52.6 3.41 2653 97.1 45511 8977 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 102.5 58.2 3.77 2651 90.7 45511 9186 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 105.7 58.8 3.81 2650 87.4 45511 9336 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 93.5 53.5 3.46 2647 94.3 45511 9078 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 101.2 58.4 3.79 2644 87.8 45511 9204 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 104.5 58.4 3.79 2644 87.8 45511 9204 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 104.5 58.4 3.79 2644 87.8 45511 9204 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 109.0 61.7 4.00 2643 84.0 45511 9506 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 91.6 53.3 3.45 2636 94.5 45511 8881 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 101.0 55.9 3.62 2633 91.6 45511 9059 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 92.8 53.6 3.47 2631 94.5 45511 8836 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 110.0 65.4 4.24 2625 80.5 42865 9739 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 101.4 56.5 3.66 2623 90.2 45511 8854 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 103.4 56.6 3.67 2623 90.1 45511 8857 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 99.2 54.3 3.52 2617 93.2 45511 8830 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 105.6 62.3 4.04 2616 87.4 45511 8977 1.146 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 107.7 60.9 3.95 2613 84.1 45511 8995 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 91.3 49.3 3.19 2612 97.9 45511 8490 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 104.8 57.8 3.75 2610 86.3 45511 8826 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 110.0 67.0 4.34 2608 86.1 44335 9427 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 97.7 53.7 3.48 2598 90.3 45511 8707 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 97.7 53.7 3.48 2598 90.3 45511 8707 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 94.6 53.7 3.48 2597 90.3 45511 8701 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 110.0 61.1 3.96 2587 83.1 42120 9200 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 110.0 61.6 3.99 2586 90.6 40746 9163 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361 103.9 62.0 4.01 2578 85.0 45511 8581 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 110.0 60.9 3.95 2572 84.6 39604 9480 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15 110.0 60.9 3.95 2572 84.6 39604 9480 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 110.0 59.8 3.88 2557 82.9 42738 8763 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 94.5 55.2 3.58 2551 89.9 45511 8182 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 110.0 59.0 3.82 2539 84.8 42833 8440 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 110.0 60.9 3.95 2535 86.8 40975 8644 1.204 ! Near Maximum !

By the way, delightful project. That would be a fun cartridge with which to work.

 

[SJB358]

That's another cool 8mm. Any pictures of the rifle or cartridge. Sounds like it drives a 170 along pretty speedily especially when you realize it's only pushed to 45K. Very cool.

 

[duckcreekdick]

Thanks for the speedy reply on this, Dr. Mike. For now I will begin with IMR4895 and start out at about 39 gr. and gradually work up to maybe 43 gr. and see what I get for velocity with the short carbine barrel. I'll try to get a picture posted as well. I was worried that the slightly larger head diameter of the parent 8x57 case might give some problems but formed/trimmed cases seem to chamber just fine.

 

[DrMike]

Very handsome rifle. I think you are correct with the IMR 4895. It will develop all you need. Did I mention that I find the old Mannilicher rifles to be very handsome?

 

[ElmerThud]

Nice rifle. It's looking really great in your pic. I really like the double set trigger arrangement. The action is so so slick too. I guess it also has the metal 'rotor' magazine as well.

I used to have a stutzen in 6.5x54MSch back in 1990 & enjoyed it for quite some time. Then the cartridge was outlawed for use on red deer in Scotland/England & stupidly I sold the rifle, buying a Stutzen Steyr Mannlicher in .243Win. to replace it. Nice rifle too, but still a silly mistake.
Currently I'm looking for another MSch again in 6.5x54...hopefully with the metal rotor magazine & D/S triggers also a stutzen - anything from 1903 onward as long as it's sound and original. They're getting rarer and more expensive too now.
ATB ET

 

[Oldtrader3]

The Mannlicher Schonauer rifles are pure classic design from the turn of the 20th century. I had a 1952 M-S carbine stock chambered for .270 Win and sold it which I am sorry for. They are a classic and getting more scarce all the time, European hunting rifle. Nice pick up!

 

[duckcreekdick]

I did some chronographing yesterday with this rifle and here are some preliminary results with IMR4895 and the Speer .323 170 gr. semi-spitzer. 39 gr.-2027fps; 41 gr.-2267fps; 43 gr. 2375fps average. Fired cases appeared normal and no visible signs of excess pressures. However, my bullets were impacting about 10" above point-of-aim. It was nasty hot and the sun over my right front didn't help my sight picture at all. I'll try again on a nicer day.
I did take the rifle apart yesterday for inspection and cleaning. Below the woodline on the right side of the receiver ring are numbers that show when the rifle went through the Vienna proof house and what number it was. This 1908 has the numbers 15613.19, indicating it was proofed in 1919. "Cool!", as my younger friends are fond of saying.
Elmer Thud: I see that Simpson's Ltd. has a 1903 on their website for sale.

 

[ElmerThud]

They're over there in the USA though...I have my eye on some here in the UK, but haven't yet made a choice. They're not quite 'right' though. Cheers, ET

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/Scotland/B/Rif ... YSMHXPo.97