95 grain Ballistic Tip failure on a whitetail

[JD338]

Nice buck, congratulations.

JD338

 

[badaxeriverman]

I’ve had too many bad experiences with Accubonds not expanding and not dumping energy. A lot of 100 yard track jobs with no blood trails with textbook heart and lung shots. I’d tell you to stick with partitions and find a more accurate load. Also try the 95 grainers. At least the front of the Partition will rapidly expand and dump energy. Wonder if the bullet started expanding and fragmenting going through the grass before it entered the deer?

 

[DrMike]

I've taken ample numbers of deer with BT and with Sierra GK (include black bear and moose with those pills). I can recall a few instances of tracking being necessary, but usually the bullets delivered where they needed to go resulted in the need to ensure that my knife was handy and sharp. Terminal ballistics is not a precise field of study. I can apply the physics, and I have a pretty good grasp of anatomy and physiology, and strange things still happen if you shoot enough animals.

 

[lefty315]

I’ve had too many bad experiences with Accubonds not expanding and not dumping energy

Hmmm, interesting results from the AccuBond. I’ve shot Elk, Bear, Deer, antelope and some African critters with the AccuBond and never had anything other than amazing results, Guess I’ll count my blessings and cross my fingers my luck keeps going.

 

[JD338]

Hmmm, interesting results from the AccuBond. I’ve shot Elk, Bear, Deer, antelope and some African critters with the AccuBond and never had anything other than amazing results, Guess I’ll count my blessings and cross my fingers my luck keeps going.

Same here with AB's.

JD338

 

[badaxeriverman]

Not me. I remember the first two deer I shot with them and they stood there like they weren’t even hit with broadside heart and lung shots. I thought I missed the first buck I shot at. It came wobbling in on three legs that the neighbors wounded stood a little under a 100 yards away. Shot it with my 30-06 about a grain under max with a 180 grain AccuBond. Just stood there and never moved. I put up the sculpt to shoot again and I could see blood slowly coming out of the hole center mass broadside 2 inches behind the shoulder. Shot a second time and hit it not even 2 inches below the first spot. Still stood there like it wasn’t shot with two bloody holes. Third shot I aimed high shoulder so I would drop it to the point where I was literally aiming for the backbone. I was so high. It knocked it off its feet at that shot. It kept lifting its head up for about a minute and a half, and then it finally put a head down. I think I waited 15 to 20 minutes before I walked up to that deer because I figured the neighbors were gonna come and claim their wounded buck. Never showed so I finally got out of my tree stand and walked up to it. When I got within 15 yards it lifted its head I was trying to wiggle like it was trying to get away. That was the last time I use those rotten bullets. I also shot them out of my 300 rum and the 260 grain version out of my 375 rum on Whitetail deer with the same type of results. Three deer I shot broadside with an archery type shot. They ran 100+ yards before falling over dead. Both Batches of these bullets were purchased the first year of production. I always wondered if they used way to hard of an lead alloy when they started out since everybody seems to rave about them here. It was enough to turn me off and never never looked back. They also never grouped with a darn with several ladder tests, took an act of God to get a group to shoot under MOA in my 30-06. The best I think I got them were closer to an inch and a half out of both RUMs. Those guns are capable of sub moa with several other bullet choices. I did borrow my 30-06 to a buddy to shoot a Russian boar at a a game Farm. That same AccuBond load flipped a giant hog over like it got hit by a truck and never moved.

 

[Jurome]

I would echo what has already been said...expecting a rapid expansion bullet to hold up on heavier shoulder bone, and deflected by the shot angle, at close range is unrealistic.
Don't let one poor experience influence your overall assessment of bullet performance. If it does it consistently on a number of animals, then you can be concerned.

I have heard plenty of people tell of the early BT's fragmenting like crazy on shoulder shots and shots at close distance. According to some, Nosler beefed up the jackets(???) for better weight retention afterwards, and there have been fewer complaints.
Was your BT out of an older box or newer manufacture?

My bad, sorry I missed this earlier...it was from recent production line..

Cheers

 

[Jurome]

Yeah, I was thinking that was really slow too. Even with my 16 1/2 inch barrel I’m probably close to 3250 with the 90s. Or even a little faster. You would think that slower speed would’ve helped it hold together even better. Guess I would’ve had to been there for the shot and also to see the autopsy photos of the deer. Also the angle that was shot.

I hear you...

for the umpteenth time...the shot was STRAIGHT ON. Straight on. It was 90 degrees, oblique, square, straight on. No angles, nothing extreme, nothing unique. Just a pure 90 degree pure natural broad side, bedded shot. This is why I posted this whole story. No angles at all.

I have tested in the last 4 months (approximately 300-350 rounds) is:

IMR4350, AA4350, IMR4064, AA2700, Staball 6.5, Win 760, Varget, H4350, H4831, Superformance

With 95 grain BT and this barrel (Sako A7) the best has been 3080 fps (IMR4064)...I got higher muzzle velocities on other loads but showed pressure signs or erratic accuracy so I exclude them.

Why do you think I have shot so many recipes? Because I read about all these performance results on all the forums that I have not even come close to. The reality is though, I have found that not some, but ALL and I mean ALL my 1/2" or less groups have come from sub-2900 fps with this rifle. Anytime I am over this nunmber, accuracy falls. Isn't hand loading fun??? lol!

PS: the load in question in this long drawn out story was A2700...my goodness talk about ACCURACY around 2800 fps and no pressure signs whatsoever. Trust me, I have been chasing the 3000 fps dragon all year and realizing it just might not be there in the slightly heavier bullets.

Oh, and shooting factory Barnes 80 grain TTSX, the muzzle velocity out of this barrel is 3100 fps...I guess everyone has a hot rod rifle except me!!

 

[Ridge_Runner]

One bad experience and your bashing the bullet? I've shot hundreds with them, Its not the bullet!!! High Velocity Impacts are hard on any bullet.

 

[badaxeriverman]

What’s a straight in shot? I’m guessing not a broadside shot but a deer facing directly towards you? So your shooting it in the neck, chest, or shoulder depending where the bullet strikes? Never took a “straight on” shot on deer in all the decades I hunted. I aways wait for a quartering away or broadside shot…or I don’t take the shot. Just me I guess. So these are straight on shots to me. I can definitely see how a bullet would skip along the side of the deer if he had a shoulder blade and not hit any vitals it’s just bad shot placement in my opinion once again not picking on you. It happens. I just wouldn’t take a straight shot because I’d be afraid of exactly what happened in your scenario. Next time wait for a broadside or a quartering shot and aim for the opposite front leg and I bet you’ll have completely different results. I passed up a giant buck last year bowhunting with a straight on shot because I was afraid of exactly what happened in your scenario, especially when shooting it from a tree standard an angle and not getting a straight shot to the rear end and it’s angling in a severe angle and might not even hit vitals if I was off dead center with my shot. I can clearly see if you or my shot placement would’ve been a little left right it definitely would skin across the shoulder plate into the rear quarter and not have any vitals. I think you would’ve had an issue with what ever bullet you decided to use that day with the shot placement that you had. Guessing you caught the outside of a shoulder blade and it skipped right back to the rear quarter and you didn’t hit any vitals. If you hit vitals, the deer would’ve died somewhere along the way before you got to it or it wouldn’t have gone anywhere or very far. If you poke a hole in the heart and lungs it’s going to end up tipping over dead within a few seconds no matter how far or fast it runs.

 

[JD338]

What’s a straight in shot? I’m guessing not a broadside shot but a deer facing directly towards you? So your shooting it in the neck, chest, or shoulder depending where the bullet strikes? Never took a “straight on” shot on deer in all the decades I hunted. I aways wait for a quartering away or broadside shot…or I don’t take the shot. Just me I guess. So these are straight on shots to me. I can definitely see how a bullet would skip along the side of the deer if he had a shoulder blade and not hit any vitals it’s just bad shot placement in my opinion once again not picking on you. It happens. I just wouldn’t take a straight shot because I’d be afraid of exactly what happened in your scenario. Next time wait for a broadside or a quartering shot and aim for the opposite front leg and I bet you’ll have completely different results. I passed up a giant buck last year bowhunting with a straight on shot because I was afraid of exactly what happened in your scenario, especially when shooting it from a tree standard an angle and not getting a straight shot to the rear end and it’s angling in a severe angle and might not even hit vitals if I was off dead center with my shot. I can clearly see if you or my shot placement would’ve been a little left right it definitely would skin across the shoulder plate into the rear quarter and not have any vitals. I think you would’ve had an issue with what ever bullet you decided to use that day with the shot placement that you had. Guessing you caught the outside of a shoulder blade and it skipped right back to the rear quarter and you didn’t hit any vitals. If you hit vitals, the deer would’ve died somewhere along the way before you got to it or it wouldn’t have gone anywhere or very far. If you poke a hole in the heart and lungs it’s going to end up tipping over dead within a few seconds no matter how far or fast it runs.

The OP said it was a broadside shot.

JD338

 

[badaxeriverman]

That’s just weird to me then to me because I don’t know how it would have hit a front shoulder and then the bullet defected at a 90° angle and hit it in the rear quarter.

 

[gerry]

That’s just weird to me then to me because I don’t know how it would have hit a front shoulder and then the bullet defected at a 90° angle and hit it in the rear quarter.

That's why he came on asking the question, it behaved very oddly and was wondering why. He clearly stated it was a broadside shot several times.

Most of the time bullets behave as expected but the odd time they do unexpected things.

 

[salmonchaser]

Bad Axe, go read some of Faklers studies. Weird things happen. Went to a noise compaint one night, partner was handling the call. Knock knock knock. Police turn down the music. Door comes open big ass bad guy standing behind the crack of the door Fuck you” and raised a piss ain’t 25. Partner hits him center mass with a Federal 230 gr dead center perfectly between the nipples. He went down so fast my partners second shot grazed the top of his shoulder. Damn he made a lot of noise. Bullet followed a rib all the way around to his back and stopped against the spine without doing any damage. He walked to the aid car, walked out of the hospital and into the jail a day later.

 

[salmonchaser]

Those are some low numbers for a 243, very interesting. As to accuracy, most who have been playing this game for 50 years or so can count numerous rifles they’ve worked with that produce better accuracy at lower velocities. If you’ve run your loads across a couple of different chronographs I appologize in advance. One way to test the validity of your velocity, chrono, is hang a target at 300 or 400 yards. 300 should work well enough. Check a ballistics app for your bullet, at the velocity you are getting, fire a few shots. If your chrongraph is giving you good data , your group will be low as expected. Then check your scale. Actually I would check my scale first.
If that checks out you’ve got an accurate light midrange deer rifle. You can re-barrel or stick it in the safe to hunt ground it would be appropriate for. Because most here are the worst kind of enablers I’m sure you’ll be encouraged to go buy a new rifle. With that in mind I would suggest a 280AI.
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving weekend.

 

[JD338]

You will love the 280 AI.

JD338

 

[truck driver]

I once shot a doe with a 30-06 that was standing broadside using a 165gr bullet. The deer ran off without a blood trail after about 50yds I found blood, so I knew it had been hit and continued to trail it. The bullet struck a tree branch I didn't see in the scope and tumbled striking the deer in the shoulder where I had aimed. That bullet bounced around inside till it ended up in a rear hind on the same side it had entered. Inside damage was terrific and the deer traveled over 200yds before it crawled under a multiple rose bush and expired.
Bullets hitting hard objects at angles can ricochet even inside bodies after hitting bone. The US military learned this with the 5.65 round during Vietnam.
There was a fellow in basic training at Fort Jackson while I was there shot his self in the foot with an M16 and the bullet struck a bone and traveled up his leg bouncing around till it found his heart killing him. Back then we kept our rifles in the barracks with us and he had just come back from the range with a weapon that wasn't properly cleared.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Sounds like maybe a defective super soft alloy then with maybe some voids (air pockets) in it. Hard to say what happened I guess. I could Guess all day long. I think, even if the bullet hit the ground and bounced up and hit the deer, it still wouldn’t explode and go left off the shoulder and into the rear end. Either way, glad you found your deer. If it were me, I’d just switch over to a Partition ( or tougher projectile). That way at least it would hopefully go on a straight line through the deer no matter what angle it was shot at. Maybe the bullet was defective and started tumbling or disintegrating and coming apart before it struck the deer? So my bad yes I went back and read the post. Sorry OP for giving you so much crap and asking 50 questions. If it really did hit it broadside in the shoulder and then literally exploded their head to be something wrong with the bullet itself. Either that or it had enough brush along the way that it opened up and started coming apart and disintegrating, or it was defective and did that on its own during the flight path. Just wondering if there were air pockets and voids in that lead pour inside the jacket. If you still have the rest of that box of projectiles maybe it’s worth throwing them on a scale to see if summer way off in weight. If so, I’d cut them open and see what they look like inside and see if they have any air pockets and voids.

 

[RL338]

Oh, and shooting factory Barnes 80 grain TTSX, the muzzle velocity out of this barrel is 3100 fps

This would have me questioning the chronograph you’re using. You are 250fps slower than what Barnes is stating for their ammo. This would put your load closer to 3000 than the 2750 you’re looking at. That might explain the damage you saw on that buck.

 

[Blkram]

In 2009 I shot my first pronghorn at 140 yards with a 7MM STW shooting factory ammo with a 160 gr SGK at 3222 fps.
He was quartering to me, and the bullet entered his chest in front of the shoulder and exited the thoracic cavity between the 3rd and 4th rib on the far side. Antelope have very thin hides and the bullet should have exited given its retained velocity and energy, but it did not. It stayed inside the hide and travelled along the body and around the back of the far rear leg coming to rest behind the leg, almost in between the largest portion of the hind quarter between its back legs. The bullet did not encounter any heavy bone as it penetrated, just a rib as it entered the animal's chest. The recovered bullet had good expansion and expected weight retention.
Never seen anything like this on any other animal before, or since.
Goes back to bullets sometimes do funny things that we just can't quite explain!