Accubond "failure"

[Cariboo]

Anyone who knows me also knows I am the #1 fan of Nosler bullets. The fairly new AccuBond has impressed me since I shot my first deer with one. The performance was nearly identical to what the advertising claimed - penetration like the Partition and accuracy like the Ballistic Tip. I shot three deer -2 mulies and a whitetail, all about 250 pounds - with a 165 gr AB last year using my 300 WSM and was delighted with the bullet.

A few hours ago I used the 300 to poke another 165 AB -from a fresh box -into a mulie. The shot was from 240 yards and the impact velocity was a modest ~2550 fps (3050 fps muzzle velocity) The shot was broadside through the lungs. At the shot the deer ran 30-40 feet and piled up in a heap.

After cutting my tag I started to clean the deer and while running my knife around the anus I was surprised to see a large amount of blood draining from the abdominal cavity. (The shot was ~12" in front of the diaphragm!) Oh crap!! Anyways ................... 10 minutes later I had the mess out and on the ground. Both lungs were hamburger and the diaphragm looked like it had been blasted with a shotgun. Copper jacket and bone fragments filled both the thoracic and abdominal cavity from end to end. The entry in the ribs was big enough to pass a baseball through. There was NO exit, not even a pinhole! The damn bullet had grenaded on contact and while deadly as hell resulted in one of the messiest cleaning jobs I have ever had to deal with.

 

[rick smith]

My usual comment is "During what part of the animals death did the bullet fail". The mulie could have been at an angle and not totally broadside, he could have moved just as you shot, something between you and the deer that was unnoticed when you shot, and the kist could go on. I don't judge a bullet on one shot. I have had too many bullets do crazy things when shooting game.Rick.

 

[mmatthews]

Isn't dead...dead?

 

[Cariboo]

Yes dead is dead but given that the AccuBond was designed as an "All-round" bullet supposedly suitable for almost all North American game it is reasonable to assume that if the bullet fails to perform well on a medium size deer it may well fail to penetrate deeply enough to produce a quick clean kill on a moose, elk or 500 pound black bear.

In my case I switched from using Partitions for the big critters and the Ballistic Tip for everything Caribou-sized and smaller to the AccuBond so I could use a single loading for all my hunting. The total destruction of the AccuBond I used yesterday and it's failure to have even the smallest piece exit is what I would definitely call a failure. I have shot 20+ deer over the years using the 165 & 180 .30 calibre Ballistic Tip from many different angles and never had a single one ever fail to exit. My assumption is that this particular AccuBond had flaws be it with the jacket, core, or bonding process.

 

[mmatthews]

I wasnt trying to be a smartass. in your original post you said you found bone fragments while dressing. Hitting bone at different angles and speeds can do strange things sometimes with all bullets. I agree that one kill is premature to call foul. I have had great luck with Partitions. I have killed 2 elk with Accubonds, both one shot kills. Just my 2 cents.
Mike

 

[longwinters]

Cariboo,

My results on 2 deer with Accubonds somewhat mirror your buddies on his moose. 140 AccuBond out of a 7m-08. Bullet diameter in and just a bit bigger than bullet diameter out. But the damage in between was excellent. 2+ inch holes going thru the ribs on entry and exit, but small holes in the hide. I don't understand what happened but both bucks were down within 30 yds. Actually one dropped on the spot and the other ran 30 yds.

I don't know what to say about your results but one of my brother in laws used 140 Accubonds this year out of his 270WSM (I loaded em up for him). He shot a full curl sheep and a couple of antelope. He took them for elk also but had no opportunity to shoot. He is sold on them as are some of his buddies who also use them.

Long

 

[kraky]

Any possibility at all that it could have hit something on it's way to the animal?? Even a little bit of grass could potentially start upsetting the tip before it hit the animal.

 

[Cariboo]

Well I skinned the buck after work today. The entry through the hide is under .30 calibre so it is safe to say the bullet did not hit a twig or anything else before it touched the hide. The amount of expansion from original contact with the hide to where the bullet hit the ribs, about an inch or so of fat and meat , was unbelievable. 3 full ribs were taken out by the bullet. A careful look did not reveal any exit but the off-side of the rib cage was peppered with bone fragments and copper bits.

In any case I really think this was an anomaly and that somehow a flawed bullet made it past Nosler's normally great quality control.

 

[JD338]

Cariboo

Any chance of posting some pictures?

JD338

 

[rick smith]

Taking out three ribs after entry makes me think that the deer was at an angle to you and not completely broadside. I have had that happen more than once and the farther away the animal is the more difficult it is to tell plus he could have moved at the shot and not have been noticed. Or it could have been the bullet.Rick.

 

[FOTIS]

I am not doubting you but this is odd. I never had an AB act that way.

 

[TScottW99]

Taking out three ribs after entry makes me think that the deer was at an angle to you and not completely broadside. I have had that happen more than once and the farther away the animal is the more difficult it is to tell plus he could have moved at the shot and not have been noticed. Or it could have been the bullet.Rick.

I did that once with an Interlock. It was so bad that when my friend came down the hill no more then two minutes later he thought I had already gutted the deer. Everything was hanging out of the three ribs I had blown away :shock:

 

[JD338]

Taking out three ribs after entry makes me think that the deer was at an angle to you and not completely broadside. I have had that happen more than once and the farther away the animal is the more difficult it is to tell plus he could have moved at the shot and not have been noticed. Or it could have been the bullet.Rick.

I did that once with an Interlock. It was so bad that when my friend came down the hill no more then two minutes later he thought I had already gutted the deer. Everything was hanging out of the three ribs I had blown away :shock:

Ditto on a Mule deer I shot with my 338 RUM and a 210 gr PT at 140 yds.
Bullet entered and too out the last 3 ribs going in and the off shoulder upon exit. That buck was moved back about 3 feet! Intestines were hanging out of the enterence hole but nothing was broken up.
Sometimes bullets can do interesting things.

JD338

 

[longwinters]

I must have just woke up and realized that you were talking mulies not moose. geesh! what a maroon.

Anyways, I still stand by the results that I have seen using Accubonds. Do I use other bullets at times, sure I do. But for those others I typically use heavier bullets like 165's over 150's out of my 308. With Accubonds I just stick with the 150's for 308 and 140's for my 280. It looks all good from my vantage point.

Long

 

[FOTIS]

I must have just woke up and realized that you were talking mulies not moose. geesh! what a maroon.


Long

What's a maroon?


Sorry I could not resist! :lol:

 

[Guest]

I must have just woke up and realized that you were talking mulies not moose. geesh! what a maroon.


Long

What's a maroon?


Sorry I could not resist! :lol:

Did you never watch Bugs Bunny, POP? I can still hear him, standing in the middle of the bullfight arena, saying, "What a maroon. What a gulli-Bull!"

 

[cloverleaf]

I know this is not the current "line of balistic thought" but by some persons opinions your "grenading" AB did a great job. Dad still swears by his old fashioned Speer 130 grainers out of his 7mag. becuse once in the deer they will splinter (up to the shank) and create lots of deadly little missles. Not dis- agreeing with you, and hes been lucky on occasion no doubt. but we have always found his deer. Usually with results very similar to what you describe. Incidentally, my 100 grn Nosler BT (MV 2800 @ fps) broke the near side shoulder on an antelope and exited throught the lungs on the far side at 264 yards. .25 cal. hole going in and a 2inch one on the way out. Bullets do funny stuff inside critters. IMHO CL

 

[Cariboo]

Follow up ................

Same bullet from same lot from the same rifle. (The mule deer last week may have been an anomaly so the field testing continued. ) ) This time it was a 2 year old black bear shot at ~60 yards. The shoulder blade was not hit and the 4 1/2" diameter tunnel continued through the near ribs and the exit through the off ribs was the diameter of a pencil.

The entry in the hide shows the bullet mushroomed to at least double diameter on contact with the rubbery bear skin.

Once again the animal died quickly - after a 100 yard dash - so the word "failure" must be taken with a grain of salt. However, and this is a big however, if I am going to get terminal performance from a bullet that appears to be actually more frangible than what I have seen with .30 calibre Ballistic Tips I will choose another "all-purpose" bullet. Given the performance I sure would not want to use a bullet from this lot on a moose, elk or a large bear.

 

[longwinters]

Maybe you should give Nosler a call and send them the rest in that particular box. Could be something is not kosher. I would not think an AccuBond would shrapnel like that. But then they are supposed to lose about 40% of their weight and where that material will go is anybodies guess as there are a lot of variables.

Long

 

[Greg Nolan]

I know that you are concerned about (just what happened) in this case. I would be also. The AccuBond bullet sheds and expands in a linear fashion. This is different than other controlled expansion bullets. It seems to hold a frontal area throughout the penetration process by shedding lead core along the way. My experiences have been kind of mystifying. It is almost like the bullet knows when to expand. Of course this is impossible but the fact remains that the bullet neither explodes or holds together to over penetrate. It gives it's all in the chest/lung area but keeps on going in it's lighter weight to penetrate. If there was ever a perfect bullet this is it. I have shot elk at 30 yards and at 250 yards with the same outcome. It's uncanny. I know that Nosler is promoting it's E bullet as the wave of the future but thats only because of California's leadless bullet initiatives. I live here. (Only in California can the absurd be considered normal). You know what I mean! Keep using accubonds and if you are unhappy about the way your game dies, well??