accuracy...

[Guest]

besides rifle, barrel, bullet, powder charge weight, casing, case prep, primer, scope, rest, atmospheric conditions... where does COAL come in?

I use a stoney point COAL gauge with a Bulet comparator by Sinclair.

I'm wondering if I should use a mirco-adjusting bullet seating die and a Hornady COAL gauge.

 

[FOTIS]

Well, hat are your results thus far?

 

[Guest]

My .243 shoots .25 inch groups at 100 yards and one inch groups at 300.
At 300 it shoots 10 inches low, but centered.

My .270 shoots 2 inches high usally one inch to 3/4 inch, ocassionally 1/2 inch groups at 100.

The .243 Savage has a McGowen Varmint Barrel with a 1:12 twist, 26 inch barrel.
It came with a accutrigger,I set at 2.5 pounds.
I use 55 and 70 grain BT Noslers bullets with H4831, CCI 200 , Lapua brass.

The .270 has a stock Savage 1:10 factory barrel, 22 inch barrel.
I use 140 gamekings and 150 grain partitions. H4831, CCI 200, Federal brass...

 

[GB300wm]

A benchrest seater die will certainly improve or reduce runout and will likely improve your overall accuracy. COAL is simply finding your rifles sweet spot and being able to repeat that measurement if you change your die to seat another bullet. Micrometer adjustments are helpful in the sense that you can mark down readings for different loadings and come back to your number to find that seating depth again.
Not sure if your question was answered. Give us more info and we can certainly help. :grin: :grin:

 

[Guest]

What other info do you need?

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

What is the Accuracy progression?
You are never more accurate then your weakest link. Here's my basic vision of the basic evolution shooters/reloader go through as they go from beginner to world class expert. This is not fixed in stone, and you will see cross over between levels. I welcome comments where other think this outline can be improved.

Level Zero:
Out of the box factory gun, standard factory ammo, cheap Chinese scope with paralax.

Level one:
Rifle: Out of the box gun, trigger adjusted, barrel free floated, recoil pad added. These are all simple low cost adjustments within the capabilities of the typical fixer-upper.

Scope: $150-$250. Paralax free at typical hunting ranges. Leupold rifleman to Leupold VX II

Ammo: Premium ammo, or Beginning reloader. Equipment consists of the typical kit, such as an RCBS rockchucker kit with standard dies. He's reloading factory fired cases, every box of cases if from a different lot, if not different brands. All cases are full length resized. The loader experiments with different components, power, bullets, and primers for accuracy. An advanced level one loader may try to only buy loaded ammo of the same manufacture.

Level Two:

Rifle: As level one, plus a bedded action. and/or upgraded stock, drop in trigger. These are still realitively simple adjustment that take a little more skill or money.

Scope: Paralax adjustment $250+ Leupold VXII to VXIII

The level two loader attempt to squeeze everything they can out of stock equimpment. This level is highlighted by advanced case prep, and advanced usage of standard equipment. The level two loader will buy bulk brass, all of the same lot number, weight sort, and debur the flash holes. They will use advanced sizing techniques, such as the partial full lenth size, and begin adjusting COAL. The loader may use standard neck sizing dies. New equipment should include a chronograph. At this level you ammo may suprass the quality of the average hunting rifle.

Level Three:
this level is about getting everything to line up perfectly with the bore.

Rifle: Rifle is rebarreled with a custom barrel, action is printed (action squared, bolt face squared, lugs lapped)

Scope: $400.00+ Leupold VXIII+

Ammo: In order to get everything to line up perfectly, we begin using benchrest/competition die set, and advanced case prep. This usually includes benchrest/competition dies sets. Bushing style neck sizing dies, and neck turning. This level is also highlighted by concentricity and runout gauges.

Level 4:

Rifle: Purpose built target rifle. Single shot action, such as a Remington 40xbr, Nesika, or other $1000+ action. Top of the line custom barrel, Lilja, Kriger, Lawton, Chanlin ect. These rifles may include a tight throat, and tight neck. They may be our of SAMMI spec, and unable to fire over the counter ammunition. The loader may actually do all the above described case prep to creat a dummy round, with the anticipated prefered bullet and COAL to provide to the gunsmith before he even begins work on the rifle. Cartridge will be selected for accuracy, usually shot and fat, 220 Waldog, 6mm PPC, 6.5x284, .308, .338 Lapua.

Scope: $1000.00+ Leupold target, or Leupold Mark 4.

Ammo: You may also see arbor presses, and these shooters may use custom bullets from small houses.

Level 5:
Begin swaging your own custom bullets:
http://www.corbins.com/

 

[Guest]

It sounds to me like you are asking what order should you do things to gain accuracy?

Well, here are my idea's on how a person can progress on the reloading side of things when looking for accuracy.

Level one:
Start reloading. At this level, you typically reload your fired factory cases. You have a standard set of dies, and full length resize everything. You experiment different components, power, bullets, and primers for accuracy. An advanced level one loader will try to only buy loaded ammo of the same manufacture, and may experiment with over all length, and may have a chronograph.

Level two:
This level is highlighted by advanced case prep. Level two loader will buy bulk brass, all of the same lot number, weight sort, and debur the primer holes. This is where you typically start experimenting with sizing techniques, such as the partial full lenth size. Experimenting with COAL will be part of the regiment. At this level you should have a chronograph. At this level you ammo will suprass the quality of the average hunting rifle.

Level Three:
Level three is highlighed by advanced dies, and advanced case prep. This usually includes benchrest/competition dies sets. Bushing style neck sizing dies, and neck turning. This level is also highlighted by concentricity and runout gauges.

Level 4: At this level you see purpose built target rifle. These rifles may include a tight throat, and tight neck. They may be our of SAMMI spec, and unable to fire over the counter ammunition. The loader may actually do all the above described work to creat a dummy round, iwith the anticipated prefered bullet and COAL to provide to the gunsmith before he even begins work on the rifle. You may also see arbor presses, and these shooters may use custom bullets from small houses.

Level 5:
Begin swaging your own custom bullets:
http://www.corbins.com/

From your description I see pressure spikes, and would be told by a Chronograph. But I can't justify buying one to tighten up 1/2" from 3/4" groups by spending money for gauges for runout on bullets and brass, or
buying brass and excess bullets... to obtain the same consistant groups every time. Is it possible to obtain the same groups EVERY time you shoot by these techniques?

Also how many firings should you do before shooting new brass?

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Going from level two to level three can be very expensive. Probably the two smallest expenses are a chronograph, a Chrony Alpha can be had for under $100.00, and the next turner. My Forster neck turned with a couple pilots was also under $100.00. Benchrest dies for every caliber can be very expensive. A full set of Redding competition dies, neck sizer, body, and seating die, can run $230.00, and that's before you buy any bushings.

Level one is about getting started, and breaking an inch with your groups. Level two is about getting everything you can our of your stock equipment. Notice, the only additional investment in reloading equipment is a primer pocket uniformer. You can weight sort brass with a balance scale, but it really is easier with a digital. In reality you can do alot with the tool and techniques listed up to level two. A chronograph helps with more then just detecting pressure spikes. You can measure your standard deviations, your extreme spreads. You can tell if the book is right or not, and get an idea about what kind of effect there is on velocity (and pressure) when substituting components. IMO serious reloaders have a chronograph.
Level three is where you start spending real money.
The cheapest piece of equipment at this level is a hand neck turner. You do need a ball mic to go along with it, which is another $40.00

In reality, after your chronograph, but before you competition dies, it's probably time to start saving for your first custom rifle. Before you spend all that money, and do all that work on your ammo, you need a rifle that can take advantage of it.

 

[Guest]

I have a flash hole uniformer and a hand held Forester neck uniformer. I don't have a electronic scale.

I tried all you mentioned but the Chrony and bullet run out. I'm sure bullet run out is an issue.

When I purchased my McGowen .243 Varmint barrel, I was told I would be surprised at 300 yards. I wasn't. An inch group 10 inches low. My Savage, accutrigger, with this barrel does well at 100 yards. My guess would be a aftermarket trigger and tuning the action and bedding the action.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

A 1" group at 300 yards is very good. Keep in mind, everything I mentioned was just on the ammo side.

 

[Guest]

So if I want to improve this group at 300 the techniques you listed are needed?

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I've updated my above post on the various shooting levels to include rifles and optics.

In addition, I must correct my previous statement. 1" at 300 yards is not "very good". It's outstanding. If you haven't done so already, your next task is to test the repeatability of your .33 MOA groups. Shoot at 100, 200, 300, 400 yards ect. Can you repeat the 1/3 MOA at all these ranges. If you can, you are there. 1/3 MOA translated into a 3.5" group at 1000 yards. Unless you plan to shoot competition, I don't see where there's anyplace to go until you are ready to spend some real money.

 

[C.Smith]

I'd be happy with 1" at 200 yards. That sounds like some nice shooting and a nice rifle there.

Corey

 

[Guest]

I've updated my above post on the various shooting levels to include rifles and optics.

In addition, I must correct my previous statement. 1" at 300 yards is not "very good". It's outstanding. If you haven't done so already, your next task is to test the repeatability of your .33 MOA groups. Shoot at 100, 200, 300, 400 yards ect. Can you repeat the 1/3 MOA at all these ranges. If you can, you are there. 1/3 MOA translated into a 3.5" group at 1000 yards. Unless you plan to shoot competition, I don't see where there's anyplace to go until you are ready to spend some real money.

This is the real crux of the issue. If you're shooting .33moa groups consistently across ranges out to 300-500yds or beyond, you're going to have to spend some serious money and time to improve to .25-.30moa, and beyond that, you're going to have to be one heck of a good shot with plenty of practice. How consistent are your groups at all ranges at this point?

 

[Guest]

Dub,
I Haven't shot beyond 300.