Advice for someone starting out

[Ralt71]

Hello All,
I'm a long time hunter and shooter. I have shot rifle, pistol, and shotguns my entire life. Did a lot of pistol competition before we had kids, have done some plate competition with AR's and have been hunting since the late 80's.

I have never done much for long range shooting though. I shot a buck at (walk off, no rangefinder back then) a touch over 400 yards with a 30-06 and a GoldRing Leupold 3x9x40. That's the longest shot I've ever made.

My question is to you guys who do this. What is the right way to get started? What are things I need, to be good at this? What are things I need to avoid so I don't create bad habits?

My desire for this is to hone my skills at closer distance, prepare myself for some hunts out west with longer ranges, and fun. I don't plan on hunting out past 700 and based on my skillset that number may be even shorter early on. I may try some extreme distances at paper as I develop the skills though. I don't have plans on shooting distance comp. and really want to hone in my hunting rifles at what you all would consider medium distance, but I call long range haha.

I believe I have the right guns for some distance.

I just got a custom made benchgun from 10X in 338 RUM It has a Leupold with a goldring 2x25 scope on it. That may not stay there, it was just one I already had. I have yet to shoot this gun and I need to do some load development on it. I haven't got any brass for it yet.

I have a 6.5 PRC with a Swaro Z6 3.5x18. This is an awesome little gun that is capable of distance but is also a hunting gun through and through. It's a Christensen FFT lightweight with a 20" barrel. That will handicap it a little at range.

I have a Tikka T3X in 7mag with a 24" barrel and a Leupold VX-6HD 3x18x56. This ol girl will shoot too. I'm sure it will be great for distance.

I also have a Christensen Ridgeline in 300 WSM with a Leupold VX-5HD 3x15x56. We nicknamed this gun laser. I've had it for roughly 10 years and it just shoots whatever you throw at it. I think this gun is good for that 700 yard mark.

Rounding it out I have a Remington XCRII in 300 win mag that will need a scope upgrade for distance. I'm fine with grabbing a scope with a higher magnification for doing this. I've considered putting this gun on a better stock, maybe even a good aftermarket barrel and getting a scope with a max mag in the high 20's or low 30's. I haven't yet because i was told there are better cartridges for long range than the 300. As it sits now, I never use this gun anymore.

 

[xphunter]

For 700 yards max on big game, everything listed is plenty fine!
Don't worry about a 20" 6.5 PRC, it is more than capable as well.
Even a 18" 6.5 PRC with factory 143 ELD-X's still give me a impact velocity of 2000 feet per second at 700 yards...Plenty of velocity for any bullet to do it's job on big game.
The question will be what kind of accuracy do you get with hunting bullets from each gun, and how well do you shoot these rifles under pressure, from odd positions or not perfectly steady?
What type of hunting will you be doing most of the time? Hills, mountains, and canyons? Plains? Ground blind or box blind?
Which rifle do you want to use the most?
From a shooting standpoint, good fundamentals are always first.
Hardened drops at ranges out to and past your self-imposed max distance.
Steel is easier to see impacts and more fun for me personally.
Paper at distance will let you know exactly how tight you are shooting at distance, and allow you to tweak your drops more accurately.
When practicing, get off of the bench and shoot from your hunting field position(s), once you have your drops established.
Practice in the wind!!!
Most of all, Have FUN!!!

 

[xphunter]

I edited (Added more things) to my first response

 

[Ralt71]

For 700 yards max on big game, everything listed is plenty fine!
Don't worry about a 20" 6.5 PRC, it is more than capable as well.
Even a 18" 6.5 PRC with factory 143 ELD-X's still give me a impact velocity of 2000 feet per second at 700 yards...Plenty of velocity for any bullet to do it's job on big game.
The question will be what kind of accuracy do you get with hunting bullets from each gun, and how well do you shoot these rifles under pressure, from odd positions or not perfectly steady?
What type of hunting will you be doing most of the time? Hills, mountains, and canyons? Plains? Ground blind or box blind?
Which rifle do you want to use the most?

Thanks for the detail!
"Don't worry about a 20" 6.5 PRC, it is more than capable as well."
The 20" barrel was a big part of actually why I bought it too. I wanted the lightweight for some rough terrain hunts or ones that I am doing a lot of walking. I have a 30 cal suppressor I may run on this rifle too.
I'm very good friends with the soon to be owner (he will be 3rd generation) of the largest gun store in Pennsylvania (their claim). I've learned a lot about guns through them and supposedly this shorter barrel doesn't hurt this gun in the ranges I am after. I haven't shot it past 200 yards yet though. For Pronghorn, Whitetail, Muley's, and maybe Elk this is probably my preferred rifle. It's lightweight, shoots like a dream, and the smaller size makes it nice for many situations. I currently have loads developed in a 140AB and 129ABLR for this gun. I used the ELD-X's my first year with a 6.5 PRC (X-Bolt LR Hunter) and I don't care for them. Just not for me.

"The question will be what kind of accuracy do you get with hunting bullets from each gun"
I honestly shoot them all well at the shorter distances I shoot today. This 6.5 I just got in February. The 300wsm and the 7mag I have hunted with for a few years.. shooting off hand on drives, rested, against a tree, from my deer blind, and rested on my pack.. deer moving, standing still, even running. I have good trigger time with them both and am very confident with them both. The 7mag I have loaded in 150 Silver Tip Ballistics and 175 ABLR's. The 300 WSM I have 165AB's, 180BT's, and 200BT's loads developed. I haven't shot either of these guns past 250yards. I would probably take one of these over the 6.5 for Elk or if i get a Moose hunt and large game the 300 most likely.

"What type of hunting will you be doing most of the time?"
I think any of the terrains is a possibility. A big horn sheep is my bucket list along with a Red Stag. I hope to get on Prong, Elk, Muley's in the near future. I'm working on an African trip with my Dad in the years to come before his advanced time on the Earth catches up to him and a hunt out there isn't possible.

 

[xphunter]

You do not need a high magnification scope (20x-30X) to shoot good at distance.
Nothing wrong with having the magnification, but most guys use too much magnification when hunting, and even when shooting at distance at multiple targets at different distances under time.
When you up the power you lose field of view, and field of view is importance in finding your animal in the scope, and then through the recoil cycle, staying on the animal. Don't pick your head up off of the scope after you fire a shot in practice or hunting.
This is a common bad habit.
This is what a 6X scope can do at 500 yards with a 14" barrel: 25 Creed with Accubonds.
The wind got me a little bit.

 

[Ralt71]

You are shooting that pistol further than I've shot any rifle, and shooting it well haha. There is hope for me!

 

[xphunter]

I would start with the 6.5 PRC, as it sounds like it is your lightest weight rig, and it shoots good.
My 14", 15", 15.75", 16", 17" and 18" specialty pistols will shoot just as good as rifles will.
Longer Barrel Lengths, do NOT mean more accurate.
Your DO get more velocity from a longer barrel length though...About 25-35 fps per inch on average.

 

[xphunter]

There is a handful of guys here who play at distance and compete (Different disciplines) at distance, who will chime in soon.
600 and 1000 yard Benchrest and F-Class.
PRS
NRL
Long Range Steel matches.
I am an odd-duck, since I use specialty pistols the majority of the time.
I do own rifles and I have competed in 1000 yard Benchrest and in 1000 yard F-Open and F-TR, and I have done LR Roving steel matches, where you have to hump all of your gear from stage to stage, then find, range and then engage your targets, and you lose points if you don't engage and you lose points when you miss.
I have used my specialty pistols (Some of which are exotic) for all of these disciplines, with the exception of F-Class.
I used rifles for F-Class since it was at Nationals and World. You have to use a shoulder fired weapon to compete.
Having said all of that, I do NOT compete very often.

 

[xphunter]

Can you dial for distance with the scope on your 6.5 PRC (Swaro Z6 3.5x18.)?
I am not a big fan of ballistic reticles, although that is how I got started with shooting and hunting at distance.
There are faster and better ways in my opinion.

I would prefer to dial either MOA or MIL for distance and wind
or
I would prefer to be able to have MOA or MIL reticle in the First Focal Plane to where I use my reticle only for distance and wind

A number of folks here like to have a scope with the reticle in the First Focal Plane/FFP and they dial for distance and then hold for wind. I do that too sometimes.

You can also get a scopes with a ballistic turret, to where you dial the distance with your turret.
You have to have proven drops, and then send that data in (For that Density Altitude or for that elevation and temperature), and then they send you a customized turret.

 

[xphunter]

Dialing...
This is my most recent video.
5" targets.
I just dialed for distance.
I had good conditions, so I just held off a little the further I went out.

In this vid you will see me dialing for elev and for wind.

 

[JD338]

Ernie has given you some sound advice. There are others that are also knowledgeable and shoot way out there. They all are much better than I.
My shooting is out to 800 yards.
To get started you need a rifle capable of shooting long range with good optics and solid mounting system.
Next you need an accurate load for your rifle that has been verified with a chronograph.
Then you put the load into a ballistic program like JBM Ballistics to create a drop chart. Now you have to verify the numbers at distance and fine tune your real world results with your drop chart.
Once this is done, you can laser, dial and execute the shot. It takes time but the effort pays off.
I made a first round hit at 800 yards this past week with my 338 RUM. It was last light, hot and humid so my hit wasn't perfect but close enough to count.

JD338

 

[xphunter]

Excellent Shot JD!!!

 

[Ralt71]

Can you dial for distance with the scope on your 6.5 PRC (Swaro Z6 3.5x18.)?
I am not a big fan of ballistic reticles, although that is how I got started with shooting and hunting at distance.
There are faster and better ways in my opinion.

I would prefer to dial either MOA or MIL for distance and wind
or
I would prefer to be able to have MOA or MIL reticle in the First Focal Plane to where I use my reticle only for distance and wind

A number of folks here like to have a scope with the reticle in the First Focal Plane/FFP and they dial for distance and then hold for wind. I do that too sometimes.

You can also get a scopes with a ballistic turret, to where you dial the distance with your turret.
You have to have proven drops, and then send that data in (For that Density Altitude or for that elevation and temperature), and then they send you a customized turret.

This scope has the customizable ballistic turret and it is FFP. It's a plain reticle with no hash marks. I have three adjustable stops on the elevation turret where I have set it up using JBM Shooters calculator with my customer load data. My zero is at 70 yards (due to deer drives and woods hunting) then I have a green dot for 140 yard and a red dot for 210 yards. It has an additional yellow do that I can set, although I never have. When I enter my load data in JBM I set the ambient temp at 25F which falls in line with most hunting seasons. I have found the pre sets are a little off this time of year due to the heat, but I just add or take a click away to cover for it.

 

[Ralt71]

Dialing...
This is my most recent video.
5" targets.
I just dialed for distance.
I had good conditions, so I just held off a little the further I went out.

In this vid you will see me dialing for elev and for wind.

Excellent shooting, and out of a pistol. That is top notch!

 

[Ralt71]

Ernie has given you some sound advice. There are others that are also knowledgeable and shoot way out there. They all are much better than I.
My shooting is out to 800 yards.
To get started you need a rifle capable of shooting long range with good optics and solid mounting system.
Next you need an accurate load for your rifle that has been verified with a chronograph.
Then you put the load into a ballistic program like JBM Ballistics to create a drop chart. Now you have to verify the numbers at distance and fine tune your real world results with your drop chart.
Once this is done, you can laser, dial and execute the shot. It takes time but the effort pays off.
I made a first round hit at 800 yards this past week with my 338 RUM. It was last light, hot and humid so my hit wasn't perfect but close enough to count.

JD338

Thanks JD! I may pick your brain on that RUM load later on! Funny you mention JBM.. look at my favorites bar haha!

 

[xphunter]

This scope has the customizable ballistic turret and it is FFP. It's a plain reticle with no hash marks. I have three adjustable stops on the elevation turret where I have set it up using JBM Shooters calculator with my customer load data. My zero is at 70 yards (due to deer drives and woods hunting) then I have a green dot for 140 yard and a red dot for 210 yards. It has an additional yellow do that I can set, although I never have. When I enter my load data in JBM I set the ambient temp at 25F which falls in line with most hunting seasons. I have found the pre sets are a little off this time of year due to the heat, but I just add or take a click away to cover for it.

Understood.
If a ballistic turret is your preferred way of skinning the cat for distance, I would get a scope where you can have a true ballistic turret.
That way, you dial any distance you desire.
I set up all of my rigs with 100 yard zeroes, but some prefer a 200 yard zero.

 

[Ralt71]

I believe it’s a true ballistic turret, it just has preset rings that you can adjust to a set number of clicks.

Check it out and let me know if it’s correct or if I should consider changing scopes.

https://www.swarovskioptik.com/us/en/hunting/stories/for-every-eventuality

 

[Blkram]

I do not have the long range shooting experience of others here, as I am limited to 400 and 500 yards on our local gun ranges.
While I do practice with my rifles out to those distances (depending on the range I am visiting at the time), I do so with all of my centerfire rifles, regardless of caliber that re capable of those distances with the hunting loads I have for them, whether they be handloads or factory ammo. This includes blot action hunting rifles in cartridges ranging from 250 Savage to 376 Steyr, with scopes ranging from 1.5-6 to 3-15 on power. All of my hunting rifle scopes are SFP, with most having a BDC type reticle such as the Leupold B&C or Kahles TDS. For my hunting style, environments, and targeted species, these work best for me. But that's me. (I now have a FFP scope with a christmas tree reticle on a LH Bergara B-14 22LR Trainer just so I can learn how to use one, and do more practice with a light recoiling rifle that is fairly inexpensive to shoot, just so I can work on my shooting form more often. I can say that I do not believe that I want a FFP scope on a hunting rifle, as I am quite often in the thick and/or dark timber where a low powered scope with a wide field of view is a definite bonus.) I am also finding that I am liking illuminated reticles with my aging eyes.
In 38 years of hunting, I have taken big game (antelope to bison, and some African Plains Game) from 5 to 475 yards (where I under estimated the range on that 7x7 elk by 75 yards), but my average distance is just 132 yards. And I have less than a handful of animals taken at 300 yards or more. And I have hunted pronghorn on the open prairie to mountain game in the alpine, as well as deer and elk in large open ag fields, and on pipelines and seismic lines.

While I would like to practice at longer distances, I am limited to my gun ranges for regular practice. There are days in the field, where there are good backstops at targets such as large rocks, where I will practice, or me and my hunting partners have tested our range estimation and cold bore shots at the targets to see who made to best range estimation and shot placement on the target, and then after all of taken their turn, have ranged the target to see how good our guess was.
I definitely do not intend to hunt at any range further than what I have practiced to...and honestly in the field, any shot at 400 yards plus for me, is a test of skill and ability to get steady enough to feel confident in taking the shot. But then again, I freely admit that I am not the best shot out their, as I shake like a leaf in a high wind, and my eyesight isn't what it once was.
Having seen or watched where others have made great long range shots, I can say that they are those out there that are definitely skilled and well practiced.

What I can say is, in long range shooting, whether it be with firearms or archery equipment, shooting form consistency is a key factor. This along with an accurate load that you are confident in, will make a big difference in your ability to place your shot accurately on target, with proven ballistic data, regardless of the range. While practice is important, quality of practice is more important than quantity of practice.

Your rifle and cartridge of choice is a highly subjective matter, and should really be determined by what you are comfortable with and confident in. And the scope should give you a good balance of optical quality, with the reticle type that best suits your hunting style and environment. As suggested. most seem to be over powered with large heavy scopes, and complex reticles.

It sounds like your 6.5 PRC is a good candidate for this...but as you have great experience with your 7mm and 300 WSM, these are also good candidates...but have more recoil that may limit your number of shots per range session. By not going out and spending additional dollars on a new rifle and/or scope, this gives you additional funds for ammunition or handloads for developing that load that will give you anything more than what you already have to fine tune a load for long range shooting in your existing battery.

From a ballistics standpoint, my 6.5 PRC with 24" barrel, with the 130 gr Terminal Ascent ammunition will still be at more than 2000 fps at 500 yards, carrying almost 1450 ft lbs of energy and having dropped just under 36" with a 200 yard zero. Compare that to the 140 gr AccuBond ammo that will still be doing just under 2000 fps, with just over 1200 ft lbs of energy and having dropped almost 45" with the same 200 yard zero. The felt recoil will be at approx 22 ft. lbs in my scoped rifle weighing 8 lbs 2 oz with a full magazine.(For deer sized big game, retained energy of 1000 ft lbs is recommended for quick clean kills) On another note, I took my 6.5 Creedmoor to New Zealand as I shared the rifle with my wife on the hunt. I took my red stag at 296 yards with one double lung shot, where it fell about 5 yards from where it took the hit. Full penetration on the 450-500 lb animal meant I wasn't able to recover the 130 gr TA bullet to measure expansion and weight retention.

My 7mm Rem Mag with 26" barrel, with the 155 gr Terminal Ascent ammo will still be at just over 2400 fps and have just over 2000 ft lbs of energy, having dropped just over 31" at 500 yards with a 200 yard zero. The 160 gr AccuBond ammo will be doing just over 2300 fps, with 1900 ft lbs of energy, having dropped just over 33" at 500 yards with the same 200 yard zero. The felt recoil will be at approx 26 ft. lbs in my scoped rifle weighing 8 lbs 7 oz with a full magazine. (For moose, 1500 ft lbs of retained energy s recommended for quick, clean kills, whereas for elk, 2000 ft lbs of retained energy was recommended, but many today have reduced this to 1500 - I believe this is due to the better bonded and monolithic bullets. My on-elk experience of over 20 elk over the years, has still shown a marked difference when having more than 2000 ft lbs of energy at the animal, having taken them with cartridges ranging from the 6.5x55 to the 376 Steyr.)

My 300 WSM with 23 1/2" barrel, with the 180 gr AccuBond ammo will still be doing just over 2100 fs with just under 1800 ft lbs of energy, having dropped 38" at 500 yards with a 200 yard zero. The 200 gr Terminal Ascent ammo will be doing more than 2200 fps with just over 2200 ft lbs of energy, having dropped almost an inch less at 500 yards with the same 200 yard zero. The felt recoil will be at approx 28 ft. lbs in my scoped rifle weighing 8 lbs 13 oz with a full magazine.

Hope these other perspectives give you some useful information in helping you navigate this new journey. Best of luck!
Look forward to hearing what you decide on.

 

[xphunter]

I believe it’s a true ballistic turret, it just has preset rings that you can adjust to a set number of clicks.

Check it out and let me know if it’s correct or if I should consider changing scopes.

https://www.swarovskioptik.com/us/en/hunting/stories/for-every-eventuality

View attachment 26591View attachment 26592

If the turret on your rifle looks like the one to the right on the Swaro page, that would not be helpful for my uses.

 

[xphunter]

Ballistic Turrets that would be functional for me.