An MSR or a bolt action...

A

ajvigs

Handloader
Nov 1, 2012
664
0
Been a little bit since I have been on here, new job and working on getting a career going for myself. As of late though I have been itching for something new though, mainly a .308 for long-range paper punching and hunting.

Now my conundrum is I am contemplating either building myself a custom .308 AR10 little by little, or just sticking to the old, faithful bolt action rifle.

The market for the AR's has been calming down, and the prices are dropping. Just yesterday at my Bass Pro they had at least 10 AR's for sale, and plenty more coming in. I could easily find a good AR10 lower and piece it out and get a good, quality barrel for it,

or

I have my eyes on a Remington 700 Milspec 5R or the FNH TSR XP rifles, both around the same price.

So the question is, if any of you had the choice for a gun for long range paper punching/hunting in todays world, would you choose an MSR or a bolt gun?
 
Hands down a bolt gun for LR work. I wouldn't waste money on fancy either. I'd buy a SPS Varmint in .308 (if that is the caliber you want), throw the stock away once you verify it shoots and restock with your choice of stocks. Put a good trigger in it and a muzzle brake so you can watch your shots. I would build a custom before I bought a high dollar factory gun. There isn't much cost difference.
 
IdahoCTD":1ur02cjo said:
Hands down a bolt gun for LR work. I wouldn't waste money on fancy either. I'd buy a SPS Varmint in .308 (if that is the caliber you want), throw the stock away once you verify it shoots and restock with your choice of stocks. Put a good trigger in it and a muzzle brake so you can watch your shots. I would build a custom before I bought a high dollar factory gun. There isn't much cost difference.
Click to expand...

Great advice, that. A good bolt gun is a work of art.
 
I'd easily take a bolt gun....from a hunting standpoint, the AR-10 types are mostly 10+ pounds- far too heavy for a .308 you'll take hunting. The pounds make a difference over the miles. For a pure paper puncher weight is less important, so in that case I'd just build a heavy bolt action.

I've messed around with the .308 ARs and just never saw any advantage from a hunting standpoint. Repeat shots are nice, but hunting is mostly about the first one hitting where it should.
 
I agree with all the others, an accurate, reliable bolt gun, built to your specs or built up with your own parts is a pretty deadly combo.
 
I think you'll get more for your money with a good bolt action rifle. There are some very good AR-10 type rifles avail, but I did, and still would, put my money into a bolt action rifle for what you describe:

Mine started as a simple Rem 700 Varmint rifle. Did well that way, but it's better now with the Krieger barrel, Badger Ord scope base & rings, McMillan stock, etc. Pretty simple, very accurate & reliable.


Nighthawk I had the pleasure to work with for a bit:


700 LTR, a fairly light, compact and accurate factory rifle:


All of those are real good .308 rifles that just shoot great.
 
Typically an AR-10 costs quite a bit more to buy / build than an equally or more accurate bolt action.

Take that extra chunk of change, let's call it a thousand dollars, and put it towards other things that will help you shoot better:

Top Quality loading dies
A couple of hundred high quality pieces of brass (Lapua, Nosler, etc)
A large quantity of match grade bullets (watch the SPS sales!)
A great shooting sling from TIS or Turner
Money towards your next barrel. If you shoot enough, even with a .308, you'll need a new barrel in a couple of years.
Maybe even money to attend a shooting school?
Or at least enter a few matches...

All sorts of things that the cash saved can buy... Go with the bolt.

Guy
 
From a financial aspect the bolt gun is a clear winner... $1500 will get you a very entry level AR10, that may or may not shoot worth a poo and may need hundreds in upgrades to sort out. Better quality AR10s will go north of $2k very quickly.

For $1500-$2000 you can get a pretty much top shelf bolt rifle...heck- you're in the near custom range- Nosler TGR, Kimber Montana and Red Hawk rifles just off the top of my head for that or just a couple shekels more.

In something like a Remington or Tikka you can be pretty well assured of sub MOA for well under a grand. For that matter, the world is just full of good grade .308 bolt actions for $1000 these days.

That extra $1k will buy a lot of ammo or a first rate scope to put on the rifle.
 
Now, with all the horror stories I have been hearing about Remington, are they still worth a gamble? I love Model 70's, and the FNH is a Model 70 action. Thoughts?
 
Myself, I wouldn't buy a new Remington, just not happy with the way they treated me during a couple of customer service conversations. I would put my money into something I know is going to be workable, such as one of the new Model 70's or a Savage before I ever spent my money on a new M700. Sorry, just the way I feel about them. I still have a couple, that are good rifles, and some shotguns, but I wouldn't buy another new one. Friends don't let friends buy new Remingtons! :p
 
Thats what I figured...shame what has happened to a good company. I think I will start looking into a Savage or the FNH
 
Never heard anyone disappointed with the FNH's. They are some sharp rifles as well.
 
What is your budget? That would help point you in the right direction. If your a Winchester fan then do you need a CRF or is a PF OK?

I personally don't have any problems with Remington and have lots of their shotguns and rifles (well the action anyway), like 40 or so. A buddy of mine bought a .308 SPS Varmint last year that shoots 5 into the .3's and .4's typically. I bought a .243 SPS Varmint and rechambered it to .243AI. It will shoot 5 under 1/2" with several different loads. I wouldn't be afraid of a Remington at all. Just about every factory heavy barrel I've seen shoots at or near 1/2" for at least 3 shots. The nice thing is the SPS Varmints are cheap compared to the Sendero's/5R's/XCR's/etc.
 
If you like the Remington action but don't want to plunk cash into an actual Remington product there are several "sort of custom" makers using base Remington actions to do builds. I messed around a bit with a Red Hawk .308 and was reasonably impressed for the cash outlay. Remington 700 short action that had been trued, B&C stock, a pretty nice 20" fluted barrel. Very business-like and shot better than a 7lb rifle should.
 
IdahoCTD":jpu5a3su said:
I personally don't have any problems with Remington and have lots of their shotguns and rifles (well the action anyway), like 40 or so. A buddy of mine bought a .308 SPS Varmint last year that shoots 5 into the .3's and .4's typically. I bought a .243 SPS Varmint and rechambered it to .243AI. It will shoot 5 under 1/2" with several different loads. I wouldn't be afraid of a Remington at all. Just about every factory heavy barrel I've seen shoots at or near 1/2" for at least 3 shots. The nice thing is the SPS Varmints are cheap compared to the Sendero's/5R's/XCR's/etc.
Click to expand...

Did the same thing with my SPS-V 243. It's now a great shooting 243 AI with a B&C tactical stock. Buddy of mine has the SPS-V in 308 that's a heck of a shooter. Seen a couple of SPS-Vs in 22-250 shoot bug hole groups. I still question what's going on with Remington's QC! It's hard to ignore FN made M70s or those out of the box shooters from Savage. You may want to look at the S&W M&P 10 308 Win if you want an MSR. A local store is selling them for $999.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y
 
My voice will join the collective...I vote for the Remington 700 variants (40X etc.) for a truly long-range paper puncher. Personal preference and experience lend the vote here. AR-10s are nice but a bolt gun is a better choice.
 
There are a ton of aftermarket parts for the M700 and clones. Accurate rifles and just about everybody can work on a Remington. Those Savages make cool rifles for your purposes as you can pretty much do barrel work yourself for a small outlay of tools.

I dig the FNs and like you, I enjoy the 3 position safety and other benefits of the action.

Again, Remingtons are solid actions and they make good rifles for the money, sometimes but their new X-Mark trigger isn't all that great in my opinion and the stocks will usually have to be tossed in the bin if you want a really rigid stock. The good part is everyone under the sun makes a stock to fit in every conceivable configuration.
 
SJB358":2ih6jtrq said:
There are a ton of aftermarket parts for the M700 and clones. Accurate rifles and just about everybody can work on a Remington. Those Savages make cool rifles for your purposes as you can pretty much do barrel work yourself for a small outlay of tools.

I dig the FNs and like you, I enjoy the 3 position safety and other benefits of the action.

Again, Remingtons are solid actions and they make good rifles for the money, sometimes but their new X-Mark trigger isn't all that great in my opinion and the stocks will usually have to be tossed in the bin if you want a really rigid stock. The good part is everyone under the sun makes a stock to fit in every conceivable configuration.
Click to expand...

+1. If you get a Rem first thing I'd do is throw in a Jewell. Then a stock. Althought look carefully because it may be a decent stock if they dropped in a H&S.
 
Well dont get me wrong, I own several Model 70's and heartily vouch for them as my number one favorute Bolt gun. I thought the choice was between an MSR or 700 only. My mistake, I should've read a little closer. :)
 
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