Another Winchester Primer failure

[Jimbeaux82]

In the past , I had read several posts here regarding failure with Winchester primers; ie leaking gas past the primer with a pin hole near the primer wall. I found information on several lots that had failures and compared the lots I had and none were the same but one was close. I e-mailed Winchester with the lot numbers I had (I have WLR, WLRM, WSR) asking if there had been a recall or failure with the lot numbers I had but never did receive a satisfactory answer from them. This week I bought a used Rem 700 in 7mm Rem Mag caliber, so loaded up a few rounds exactly per the Nosler Manual to see if it would shoot. I was using Federal brass, 150 NBT bullets, WLRM primers and VV N160 powder. So I loaded up 6 rounds each at 60 grs, 62 grs, and 64 grs as per Nosler. I fired the first round of 60 grs, all OK. I fired the second round and noticed smoke coming out of the end of my bolt. I checked the case and it indeed had the dreaded pinhole. I stopped at that point. I went home and pulled all of the rounds, discarded the Federal brass and reloaded with once fired Remington brass, paying very close attention to primer fit. I can verify that every primer fit tight in the pocket. I loaded up 3 with the same lot of WLRM primers (60 grs VV N160) that had failed in the Federal Brass (lot # DGL201G), the remaining rounds with Rem 9 1/2 M primers. I decided to fire the 62 and 64 gr lots first (Rem 9 1/2M primers) then come back to the 60 gr load last (WLRM primers). No issues at all with the 62 and 64 gr loadings (Rem brass, Rem primers). Came back to the 60 gr loading (Rem brass, WLRM primers) and had the exact same gas leakage issue. So now I have a gas damaged bolt. I have attached pictures of the case head as well as the bolt head. I have a few questions for anyone who has had this problem before and contacted Winchester:

1) do you have a specific contact at Winchester that I can speak to? I was not at all happy with my earlier e-mail asking about lot number failures. Now that I have had a failure, with damage, I want to speak to an actual person if possible.
2) is my bolt now ruined or can I safely use it. I fired 2 rounds with the described primer leakage.
3) What is it reasonable for Winchester to do in this case? Pay for bolt replacement and replace or refund primers?

Any other advice on how to handle this would be appreciated.

Jimbeaux

 

[truck driver]

Very familiar looking picture Jim since I have experienced it in the past. All I did was contact Winchester customer service by phone and talked to a representative who in turn asked for info and pictures which I emailed to her from there I was asked to return the problem primer and case it was fired in to them for inspection. They sent a check for primer replacement and offered to pay for repair to the rifle bolt face. The lady I talked to was very concerned and took care of everything. Unfortunately I no longer have her number or contact info since I had a computer program problem and had to have the hard drive wiped and reinstalled .
Also funny how the rifle involved was a M700 and Rem cases. I recently had this also happen with Federal mag primers in Federal cases in a 7mm Rem using Nosler load data but with RL22 powder.
The bolt can be refaced by a good gun smith and the burn marks really don't cause a problem as far as I know.
There is a post on here about the WLRM primers but don't know the link.
Sorry I couldn't be much help.

 

[brikwhitt]

I have 2000 win primers that I'm afraid yo use now. I've switched to cci primers. Also picked up a 1000 fed primers

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[kraky1]

Kinda looks to me like that bolt has taken more than two hits? The little pitts are not a safety problem ....you could maybe check your brass and see if it maybe makes some marking on the base when you shoot it but it should be not an issue. I'm not so sure that resurfacing is so easy.... if you remove material to make the pitts disappear you are changing your head Space by a few thousands of an inch. I've been a victim of Winchester's BS myself. I don't have any doubt they know what primers they were making with thin jackets that were the problem and they don't want to tell anybody so they just let us have these problems and get ahold of them. I can only imagine how many people have pitted both faces and don't even know it.

 

[ksubuck]

Its been several years since I had the same problem. I spoke with a lady who didn't want to say much, suppose from a liability standpoint. She had me ship all of the remaining primers, the failed primer, and brass case. She offered to pay any repair expense at a gunsmith and to replace the primers I returned.

I wasn't too concerned about the pinhole on my bolt face, so I bartered for some hard to find brass as it was during the shortage.

I no longer use any Winchester primers, only use Federal and CCI. Occasionally, I can see a very small imprint of the defect on the primer when I shoot hotter loads in the rifle. Other than that, I haven't had a real problem with the pit on the bolt face.

 

[DrMike]

When the peak chamber pressure rises about 50,000 psi and even goes up to 65,000 psi on standard cartridges, any weakness in the firing system will be exposed. Unfortunately, the brass cup favoured in newer Winchester primers and in Remington primers appear to create a weak point that will be exploited by the pressure generated. I suppose the brass cups were a cost saving measure for Winchester. I never had this problem with the old steel cups they used. I have never had leakage, but I have had primers fail to ignite. When I eliminated the firing pin as a culprit, or debris in the firing pin channel or failure to seat properly, it came down to a matter of the primer itself. On some rifles, especially on some of my lever guns, Winchester and Remington primers can prove problematic for firing. Consequently, I've turned to CCI and Federal primers to address the issue.

 

[truck driver]

I think it also has something to do with the primer pocket and how the mouth of the pocket is chamfered since there is less support in that area of the pocket. The ones that have blown out the side for me have been in this area. Some of the spent primers have had a rim on them similar to a rim fire cartridge case and the Federal primer that just burnt threw the edge of the primer had a slight rim formed on it after firing. I prep the primer pockets with a Redding tool so it's not because of primer being seated shallow the problem lies in the case.

 

[balew6254]

Check out this thread on 24 Hour Campfire:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... st11426616

I worked with:
Linda Bates
Olin Corporation
Winchester Division
Phone: 618-258-3530
Email: lmbates@olin.com

She sent me packages to return the 3K primers I had that were supposedly defective. They were returned to Winchester in December. I have not yet received a check to replace them, but others on 24 have. They will also pay to repair your bolt. There is a reference in the 24 thread to a gunsmith who will do the work.

Bruce

 

[SJB358]

That's a shame. Sorry to hear about the primer failure. Like Mike, I've steered to CCI's mostly. Knock on wood they have been great. Had one misfire in 1000's of rounds and that was likely my fault as not another has ever had a problem.

Hope Winchester treats you right.