best way for consistent powder charge

[freestylmx]

I have been reloading with a digital scale. The one that comes with the Hornady reloading set. The scale works pretty good, but not good enough in my opinion for extreme accuracy by giving a perfectly consistent charge weight every time. So whats a real good scale for accurate charges every time that wont cost me an arm and leg. Would the standard balance beam scale be better?

 

[Guest]

I'm curious as to what you're seeing in terms of a lack of extreme accuracy? All the digital scales are supposed to be accurate to .1gr, as the beam scales are. Perhaps you have either electrical or environmental interference in the form of discharge from your lighting or other electronics on the same circuit or a draft/breeze affecting the scale?

 

[DrMike]

All the digital scales are supposed to be accurate to .1gr, as the beam scales are. Perhaps you have either electrical or environmental interference in the form of discharge from your lighting or other electronics on the same circuit or a draft/breeze affecting the scale?

+1

 

[jimbires]

I went back to a 10-10 balance scale with a omega trickler . my extreme spread over my chronograph has consistently gone down compared to using my digital scale . I'm thinking I'm going to send my 10-10 scale away and have it tuned up .
on another forum I read there has been a lot of talk on these digital scales this past year ,or so . there are mainly two types . the better one is magnetic restoration ( I think ) and the cheaper one is strain gauge ( I think again ) . most of these scales sold for reloading are the cheaper strain ones . these scales are known to drift , and not react quickly enough while trickling powder . guys say they are lifting the pan off the scale and setting it back down to get a more accurate reading . most guys claim they let the scale turned on all the time to get better results ,because everything is warmed up . the magnetic scale these guys are using is accurate to +/- .02 grain , BUT the cost is right at $900 . if you are interested in reading about these scales let me know I'll pass along some links . there was also a comparison done with 4 or 5 different scales .there is a lot of good info in these few threads . Jim

 

[Oldtrader3]

I normally use a 50 years old Ohaus 5-0-5 scale with an RCBS trickler. What bothers me about my Hornady digital scale is the residual memory which attempts to repeat the weight measurement of the original powder fill, not the adjustments after trickling additional powder. I do not have an engineer's electronic lab-balance-scale any more which I can use to audit my cheap digital Hornady 350 grain scale.

This happens when I premeasure from my mechanical powder measure and then trickle into the scale's plastic pan on the scale. There seems to be some electronic hysteresis in the scale which makes it keep trying to return and continue indicating the thrown charge weight and not the new thrown, plus trickled weight. It is flaky to watch!

Something is fishy in Denmark with this Hornady digital scale setup!

 

[DrMike]

When training in biochemistry, we began with oil dampened balances. By the time I was fully engaged in doctoral studies, we were using electronic scales and all the old balances were relegated to the museum. This was exceptionally fine work; the amounts weighed were far smaller than a charge for a cartridge and far more critical. The work was verified in multiple laboratories. The key is to shield your cables, avoid drafts and ensure that the scale is thoroughly warmed and properly calibrated. I check with appropriate check weights from time-to-time.

 

[sask boy]

I have been using a charge master for a few years now
And it seems to be real close. I still check about every 10th or 12th load and have never yet had descrpency

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Guy Miner]

One more thing worth considering...

I believe that striving for the precise charge weight is one of the most useless ways a rifle shooter can spend his time.

This is borne out by experience at the 600 yard line, and beyond.

When I weigh each charge, and use the trickler to make them all the same... The results at 600 are NO BETTER than when I simply throw the charges via my RCBS powder measure.

Seriously. And I'm not talking 6" groups here at 600 yards, I'm talking 2.5" - 3" groups from the .308 Win. There are ways I could improve my handloads, but I don't think that obsessing over the charge weights is one.

FWIW, Guy

 

[Wincheringen]

I set my powder measure to the charge weight I want and don't weigh anymore after that.

Even the cheapest digital scale will give an accurate weight good enough for reloading as long as its properly calibrated.

 

[Oldtrader3]

One more thing worth considering...

I believe that striving for the precise charge weight is one of the most useless ways a rifle shooter can spend his time.

This is borne out by experience at the 600 yard line, and beyond.

When I weigh each charge, and use the trickler to make them all the same... The results at 600 are NO BETTER than when I simply throw the charges via my RCBS powder measure.

Seriously. And I'm not talking 6" groups here at 600 yards, I'm talking 2.5" - 3" groups from the .308 Win. There are ways I could improve my handloads, but I don't think that obsessing over the charge weights is one.

FWIW, Guy

Guy, I am sure that you are right about not having to weigh charges particularly with ball powders which meter very accurately. With me, it is old habits die hard and I have the free time to spend the extra 15 minutes per box measuring and weighing charges. This way, if something goes wrong, it is not a component but something else, like maybe operator error.

 

[jimbires]

keeping your powder charge more consistent will help shrink vertical spread in your group at distance . could also help with unexplained fliers .

Charlie , your seeing one of the common problems . you must build weight on the scale , then it will go to a higher reading . the scale has a lag time .


Dr Mike , I don't think the lab would be using a econo priced strain gauge scale that is accurate to +/- .1 grain .

I had a few links saved in my favorites on scales , but the links are not good now . here is one I found . Jim

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-rev ... a-precise/

 

[Oldtrader3]

Thanks, Jim, I will try waiting.
Charlie

 

[Guest]

Guy, your comments corroborate something I've thought about handloading for a very, very long time. I know people who go to the trouble to weight sort all their bullets, brass, and even primers (seriously?) and then throw charges by the most insane methods to try to get them more consistent than .1gr. I use an RCBS 5-0-5 scale and an RCBS trickler, and a small stainless steel measuring spoon. Actually, I have spoons of varying sizes that came in a set, but the methodology is the same regardless of the size charge I'm trying to throw. After carefully zeroing my beam scale, I spoon the charge into the pan and then when the beam starts to move, I stop spooning (usually just one or two spoons is enough, as I use the different size spoons to make sure I'm not shoveling powder incessantly), and start trickling the last quarter- to half-grain. As best I can tell, that gets me pretty well accurate out to my self-imposed limits of 400-500yds for hunting purposes. I don't look for cloverleaf groups at 400yds, either. I don't think, even with the very best rifle that's within my skill set. But 1-1.5MOA is certainly within my skill set, and it also is certainly well within the kill zone of the white-tails I chase around here.

There will always be those who believe doing more equates to better accuracy, but in my mind the law of diminishing returns kicks in early and climbs steeply on this. It's like the difference between a 600HP drag motor and a 610HP drag motor. The first 600 is easy compared to that last 10HP, and exponentially cheaper, too. And for that 10HP, you'd better still cut the best light and drive the straightest line or you're going to lose.

 

[RiverRider]

I agree completely with the diminishing returns concept. I think that some powders, though, might be more responsive to a little more precision and if one chooses to use them for one reason or another then due effort is justified. The cartridge itself might play into it also...the .22 Hornet being a prime example.

My own personal approach is the desire for accuracy without weighing and measuring bullets. If I can achieve desired accuracy only by tedious measurements with a given component then I will seek out an alternative component. The one area I believe does pay dividends is brass preparation.

Nonetheless, I will freely admit that I sometimes get a little more focused on more precision than I believe is actually necessary.

 

[tjen]

RCBS, Hornady, Reddington BEAM scale are all fine 5-0-5 is what I have and the 10-10 is what I want as a up grade. The only use I have for a electronic scale (scale olny) under say $300 is to weight arrows. If you have any knowledge of strain gage based scales mainly what a good designed eliment blank costs $500 to +$1000 you would mess with them.

You have to have a very sensitive eliment that has a mechanical over scale protection built in to pervent yelding of the beam / eliment where your measuring the strain at. A finely machined stainless steel heat treated blank is necessary and cheap alu eliment made from square stock does not fall in to that description ( for me ).

There may be some pezio electic based scales now, I have only used this type for vibartion and pressure meassurments and the small sized ones we use wear out mainly by over torquing their body or bases which are very small with a max spec of 7 in/lbs. Acelormenters last as long as you do not over scale them by dropping them.

 

[onesonek]

Unless spending big bucks for a lab quality electronic,,,,I question the accuracy of the cheap units. However I won't say that thought is written in stone, as I haven't researched them enough. I been happy in just been using a beam, and I still trickle the loads where I'm concern about accuracy at longer ranges or target/varmint loads, and or powder type don't meter well enough.
I can't argue and do agree with Guys experience's in his post however, as I seen similar results. But then every firearm is different, and one just don't know until you know it's wants or needs. I have had some barrels where my normal range accuracy didn't change much during the entire load ramp, so extreme accuracy in powder metering/weighing had little effect other than velocity.
I still see and believe trickling reduces extreme spread and standard deviations velocity. One can have a very accurate load with an extreme spread of 50-100 fps,,,,I don't believe that really affects much at normal hunting ranges, but for long to extreme range, it can imo.
I might change things if a .1-.2's change, affects the accuracy beyond a personal set parameter. But if it shoots accurately with a set charge, I don't worry about that too much. If I'm dropping a charge and due to the powder characteristics,,,,and it changes more than +/- .1, then I trickle the last 1-1/2 grain. How, what, and why, just boils down to the intended use for me.

 

[AzDak42]

Let me take another approach on this thought..

The tools at hand are all plenty accurate. Whether that's a powder measure, electronic of beam scale.

The real secret is your process and procedure using them. The equipment will all do what's needed if you do your part.

The majority of my experience is with electronic scales, the RCBS chargemaster specifically and the same hornady mini-scale that came with my LNL kit.

- Wipe them down with a dryer sheet or static guard before every use.
- Keep your power clean (I use a high grade UPS I had from a home server I no longer use.)
- Keep electronic interference down. Be careful of how your route your cables, keep florescent lights away, etc.
- Use your checkweights to see if it ever creeps during a long session. (I've gone up to #400 in a batch and not had any creep.)
- Use the straw trick for non-ball powders
- Avoid ceiling fan or duct drafts.. they will hose you

And the biggest one that cut down my overthrows?

Make sure your scale is perfectly level and resting on a sturdy surface. When I moved my scale off to a side bench and off the bench that housed my press I was using for seating, my overthrows became insignificant.

Consistency is everything.

 

[onesonek]

"The real secret is your process and procedure using them. "
"Consistency is everything."

Those two statements pretty much says it all in a nutshell !

 

[Horsethief]

The method I use is nearly identical to what Dubyam does. For large amounts of powder, I use a very old Lyman powder measurer to get close, then dump the powder in the pan on the digital scale, and finally spoon it to the exact amount I want. I want every load of a particular powder weight and bullet weight to be as close to the same as I can. Call it a touch of OCD, or being patient in what I'm doing, but it works very well for me.
By the way, I've never weighed my primers. WOW!

 

[FOTIS]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/772151 ... o-110-volt