Bitteroot Bonded Core

[SJB358]

Andrew, great info sir. I'm liking the bullet talk a whole lot!

Sean, that would be real cool too. Love to see what you dig up of the old bullets. I know there isn't a great reason to look for an old bullet when so many others are available, but I can't help myself. I wouldn't have had a rifle made up in 35 Newton either if I were so normal thinking! Ha!

 

[SJB358]

Sean, I'd like to hear your uncles thoughts on the bullets and any info he can relate about them.

Andrew, I'm going to see if Bill will email me a copy of your bullet test. Sounds like great reading material for a bullet head.

 

[gerry]

I found this pic of one of Rigbymauser's favorite's the 180 gr 277 Woodleigh, looks like a nicely tapered jacket to me. I would also really love to try the Norma Oryx but have been unsuccessful in locating some for handloading.

 

[SJB358]

Great picture Gerry. Heard good things about the Woodleighs as well. Like to see some of them smashed into jugs around 3000 just to see what they end up like. Hear real good things about them and they are probably some of the more reasonably priced bullets in the premium category.

 

[alaska100]

I found this pic of one of Rigbymauser's favorite's the 180 gr 277 Woodleigh, looks like a nicely tapered jacket to me. I would also really love to try the Norma Oryx but have been unsuccessful in locating some for handloading.

both the "weldcore soft nose" and the "protected point" are tapered and the protected point also includes the weldcore technology. The protected point that Rigbymauser uses are excellent all round hunting bullets. They may not be "the best ever", but they are excellent hunting bullets.

Gerry, a member on another forum gave us some good information on Norma bullets and I remember there were some in B.C. I will try to find that information and get it to you

Scotty, we will let you know what we find out, I hope we find some for you

 

[SJB358]

Thanks Sean, I am running down any leads I can as well. I have heard from some of the fella's that use them, even lighter weight 140's ran out of magnum 7mm's are just unreal on big game. When I hear things like that, I just have to try them!

I wrote to Bill Steigers and asked for a copy of the compilation he put together using BBC's and other bullets. To a nut like me, I love to read that sorta stuff that puts most folks asleep.

 

[alaska100]

Gerry, I found it but it was back on May 7th. The one box available at that time was loaded 270 150 gr oryx at Graf and Son. Wolverine and Grouse River in BC were mentioned as two suppliers in BC that should receive some when Norma sends another shipment to North America, hopefully by the end of this month or in July.

Scotty, remember the wild west rifle he bought. He shot both Kodiak soft points and solids through it and said the only problem with them was that he found a few non uniform bullets in each box.

I will be leaving soon to help get my daughter started on her boat trip, but will let you know if he finds any Bitteroots for you,

 

[SJB358]

Sweet, thanks Sean. Hopefully I can find some to run into an elk or deer this Fall. I can use about any of them except for .375. Even then, I'd be inclined to get the bullets then find the rifle!

 

[DrMike]

I can use about any of them except for .375. Even then, I'd be inclined to get the bullets then find the rifle!

Spoken like a true rifle crank. I'm proud of you, my boy! :grin:

 

[SJB358]

I can use about any of them except for .375. Even then, I'd be inclined to get the bullets then find the rifle!

Spoken like a true rifle crank. I'm proud of you, my boy! :grin:

I've learned from the best.

 

[DrMike]

Touché! Good one, Scotty. :lol: Hopefully, Kurt won't take offence at that. :mrgreen:

 

[andrewctillman]

SJB, I doubt that Bill has scanned my old article. It was 20 pages front and back with B&W photos.

The original Barnes copper jacketed bullets you mention had an 0.049 thick jacket as I recall, but did not do too well in my .375 test. Most of the retained weight was in the jacket.

Gerry, thanks for Woodleigh photo. My 270 grain .375, 180 grain .308, and 400 and 500 grain .458's have no taper to the jacket. Maybe the unusually long (high SD) bullets like the 180 grain .277 are tapered? My bullets date from 2003-2005. I liked the Protected Point 458's alot better than the RN. The PP delayed expansion like the Hornady Spire Point does. The 180 grain .308 and 270 grain .375 do a decent job at 2,700 fps. (I loaded the 180's for my father in laws 30-06). But a Bitterroot or North Fork can withstand 300 - 600 fps higher velocity.

 

[gerry]

Alaska100, I actually got my 358 Norma brass from Wolverine sports, there are a few retailers that carry Norma brass but bullets are harder to find for some reason unless you want factory ammo. X-Reload in Quebec carried them in the past, hopefully they will again.

Andrew, I would imagine Woodleigh like all other bullet manufacturers are constantly tweaking their designs. The Protected Point bullets are the ones that interest me the most but they sure do seem to make some fine bullets of all types.

 

[Africa Huntress]

Someone ask me to respond to this thread, so blame them, not me, for sticking my nose in

Everybody's right (-:

Woodleigh's bonded core bullet's are designed, for the most part, and definitely so in the larger calibers, to give the hunter maximum expansion at lower velocities. The bonding is simply an added plus, preventing core and jacket separation. Woodleigh goes so far as to publish the velocities their bullets work best at

American's for the most part like high velocity rifles and bullets like Northfork, Swift A - Frame and the old Bitteroot work very well at high velocities.

The Rhino which was mentioned go a step further and make a bonded bullet with a solid base so that expansion stops at a given level.

We also like the GS Custom bullets, as well as the Norma Oryx and Nosler. I used a Nosler AB bullet on an important hunt in Asia and it worked very well. If I had not given the gun away I would use the same combination ( rifle and bullet ) again.

To say something is the best ever is tough. I am sure Jerry thought Shannon Tweed was the cat's meow until Kate Upton showed up in sports illustrated

The only thing I know for sure is that I have hunted a lot on every continent and regardless of the bullet one uses, as long as it is used in a 300 H & H, your hunt will be a success

 

[SJB358]

Great input A. How do Rhinos compare to A-Frames and Northforks?

 

[andrewctillman]

I was disappointed in the Rhino bullets in .458.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=26986

I tried the 425 and 485 grain.

Not nearly the velocity envelope or frontal area of a 400 or 450 grain North Fork.

The GS deserves alot of credit for popularizing both FN and "driving bands" to reduce fouling and pressure on monometals. North Fork, and much later Barnes adopted this technology.

I believe that Gerard of GS uses "half hard" copper alloy for both his solid FN and HP monometals. So it does deform a bit in the FN compared to a full hardness that NF uses. Good bullets though.

 

[Africa Huntress]

Great input A. How do Rhinos compare to A-Frames and Northforks?

Scotty, I dont compare them to those two but more to Woodleigh. Between the Rhino and the Woodleigh I prefer the Woodleigh. We have been using more and more Norma oryx bullets, especially when we are hunting in Europe and they have performed well for us. We like the the Swift and have used it when hunting in North America, but probably our favorite North America bullet is the Northfork. GSC and Woodleighs in Africa.

Scotty, the Bitteroot was a good bullet, no doubt about it, just like in my humble opinion Paul Newman was a great actor, but they are both gone. I remember them and liked them but I am not going to give up hunting and the movies because they are gone. Fortunately, I can watch a rerun of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and enjoy the performance of Paul. Elizabeth and Burl, but unless you get real lucky hunting with a Bitteroot bullet may never happen for you. However, I have been told to keep my eyes open for a box for you and if we find one we will buy it and send it to you, but only if you promise to wear one of those ties LOL

 

[andrewctillman]

Huntress,

No offense, and I really mean that, but if you are looking for a "box" of Bitterroots, it means you have never really seen them, used them, or seen them used.



They were not sold in a box.

They were sold in a vinyl package of 25 bullets, so you could confirm zero with five and hunt with 20.

I realize you were trying to be gracious, and I appreciate that. More gracious comments are much appreciated in an internet chat room!

They were never cheap. $1 a bullet in the 70's.

Not for everyone, but "the original and still best." Demonstrably so.

I like your analogy to Paul Newman!

There would be no Swift, Woodleigh, North Fork, Trophy Bonded, Interbond, Scirocco, or AccuBond without Bill Steigers.

Bill and I talked to the Nosler family in 1988 or 1989 about acquiring his name and technical data package. Too big of an image change at the time. But we saw the future.

 

[Africa Huntress]

(-:

and you would be correct, they did come in a "bag" not a "box"--my error. and my apologies for not giving the Bitteroot and Bill and you sir their and your just due. Great bullets, great man, great vision, your right!

but as Scotty already knows if we find "a bag" of them we will buy them and we will ship them to him and as he also knows he will not be required to reimburse us. I was not necessarily being gracious as we have done more than this before and for some of the members of this forum.

Be well everybody and good bye

 

[SJB358]

Either way folks, I'm more interested in your experiences with the bullets. Even if I never put a bull on his butt with a BBC I'd like to see any recovered bullets or stories about hunts with them.

A, thank your for keeping the eye out for any of them. I'll wear the tie if I smoke a bull elk using them. I'll wear it to the Marine Corps Ball under my Dress Blue Alphas if required as well.

Keep up the talk folks. Love the bullet talk.