Building an Elk Rifle

[Anonymous]

I'm intrigued by the 300RUM...my hunting partner was using one this year and made a spectacular shot on a caribou.

Pretty sure that one would be an effective round for elk near or far. Not sure its any better at practical ranges than any other .300 but when the country opens up it really shines.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I guess that I have to ask this question because the decision depends: are you going to hunt in the cascades or rockies for RME or are you going to hunt the Oregon Washington, Olympics or Coastal ranges for Roosevelt elk where you will see steam off from their bodies and smell like an elk before you ever see a piece of one and almost never see an entire animal.

This question is very relevant because it is what originally drove me to buy a .338 WM Browning Safari with 275 Speer handloads in 1968 after switching from RME to Roosevelt elk. Those being seen in patches of fur at mere yards in the bracken and steep drainages. The DRT quotient becomes more than academic under these conditions. Certainly of the choices offered, I would now choose the .300 Mag 200 Partition or A-frame as minimum, with a >250 gr, .338 WM or .340 being better still! Forget a blood trail (usually) in this slippery stuff in the rain. Pus, if the elk goes 100 yards, you may never find it.

Just something to think about.

 

[BK]

Good call, but I think Brian (and, for that matter, Scotty too) has the hand-to-hand err, hand-to-hoof combat-type hunting with his Marlin .45-70.

 

[big rifle man]

Have to respectfully disagree with the gentlemen in regards to the 300WinMag vs the 300WSM. A friend of mine owns a model 700 in .300WM and we decided to do some shooting with various handloads through a Oehler 35P to determine if in fact what everybody says is true about the differences in velocity between both 300's. After talking with two different ammunition manufacaturers I found that the 300WM statistics are taken with a 26 inch barrel on many occasions and a 300WSM is taken with a 24 inch barrel. My buddies barrel is a 24 inch so my Kimber montana with a 24 inch barrel was on even ground. We used 180 grain bullets and used Re22, IMR4831, and IMR4350. (Testing got kind of expensive) Anyway, to make a long story short, all the way through maximum loads or until pressure signs popped up both calibers stayed neck and neck. This was using a 180 grain Partition. I also shoot a 180 grain Sierra pro hunter and found that this bullet actually did outshoot the Partition velocity wise. I believe this particular issue has a lot to do with the amount of bullet touching the lands. Just some food for thought.

 

[SJB358]

Have to respectfully disagree with the gentlemen in regards to the 300WinMag vs the 300WSM. A friend of mine owns a model 700 in .300WM and we decided to do some shooting with various handloads through a Oehler 35P to determine if in fact what everybody says is true about the differences in velocity between both 300's. After talking with two different ammunition manufacaturers I found that the 300WM statistics are taken with a 26 inch barrel on many occasions and a 300WSM is taken with a 24 inch barrel. My buddies barrel is a 24 inch so my Kimber montana with a 24 inch barrel was on even ground. We used 180 grain bullets and used Re22, IMR4831, and IMR4350. (Testing got kind of expensive) Anyway, to make a long story short, all the way through maximum loads or until pressure signs popped up both calibers stayed neck and neck. This was using a 180 grain Partition. I also shoot a 180 grain Sierra pro hunter and found that this bullet actually did outshoot the Partition velocity wise. I believe this particular issue has a lot to do with the amount of bullet touching the lands. Just some food for thought.

I haven't done much with the WSM, yet.. BUT, after having a 300WM for quite awhile and loading for it quite a bit, the practical difference between the two is nothing to me. The big difference is rifle weight. I went from a heavy old Ruger to a lighter Featherweight. I am sold just on those points. Scotty

 

[big rifle man]

agree with you completely scotty. I puchased the Kimber for that exact reason. At the end of the day it doesn't feel like I'm carrying an anchor. My buddies rifle was over two pounds heavier than mine and in colorado the weight means a lot.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have never worried about rifle weight for elk hunting, just caliber plus optics, and let the weight fall where it is, within reason. I do not consider a 9-1/2 pound elk rifle in say: .340 Wea Mag scoped and loaded with good sling as being heavy.

 

[IdahoCTD]

Have to respectfully disagree with the gentlemen in regards to the 300WinMag vs the 300WSM. A friend of mine owns a model 700 in .300WM and we decided to do some shooting with various handloads through a Oehler 35P to determine if in fact what everybody says is true about the differences in velocity between both 300's. After talking with two different ammunition manufacaturers I found that the 300WM statistics are taken with a 26 inch barrel on many occasions and a 300WSM is taken with a 24 inch barrel. My buddies barrel is a 24 inch so my Kimber montana with a 24 inch barrel was on even ground. We used 180 grain bullets and used Re22, IMR4831, and IMR4350. (Testing got kind of expensive) Anyway, to make a long story short, all the way through maximum loads or until pressure signs popped up both calibers stayed neck and neck. This was using a 180 grain Partition. I also shoot a 180 grain Sierra pro hunter and found that this bullet actually did outshoot the Partition velocity wise. I believe this particular issue has a lot to do with the amount of bullet touching the lands. Just some food for thought.

What I was referring to was using the max OAL of a short action with a WSM to a long action with a WM. The WM with a long throat to maximize the potential of the case will run away from a WSM stuffed in a short action. If you put both in a long action you are back to even. That is why a lot of long range guys use long actions for WSM's or shoot a short action single shot with the bullets seated out where they should be.

 

[SJB358]

Have to respectfully disagree with the gentlemen in regards to the 300WinMag vs the 300WSM. A friend of mine owns a model 700 in .300WM and we decided to do some shooting with various handloads through a Oehler 35P to determine if in fact what everybody says is true about the differences in velocity between both 300's. After talking with two different ammunition manufacaturers I found that the 300WM statistics are taken with a 26 inch barrel on many occasions and a 300WSM is taken with a 24 inch barrel. My buddies barrel is a 24 inch so my Kimber montana with a 24 inch barrel was on even ground. We used 180 grain bullets and used Re22, IMR4831, and IMR4350. (Testing got kind of expensive) Anyway, to make a long story short, all the way through maximum loads or until pressure signs popped up both calibers stayed neck and neck. This was using a 180 grain Partition. I also shoot a 180 grain Sierra pro hunter and found that this bullet actually did outshoot the Partition velocity wise. I believe this particular issue has a lot to do with the amount of bullet touching the lands. Just some food for thought.

I get what your saying with that. My old 300WM barely allowed me to push much past 3.34" where as this new 300WSM with the longer mag and throat allows seating out to 3.10" so I am kinda lucky with that. It does allow me to run 200's and hopefully get enough fuel in the case to make it useful. Scotty

300WSM - 200gr AB's seated to 3.05"

What I was referring to was using the max OAL of a short action with a WSM to a long action with a WM. The WM with a long throat to maximize the potential of the case will run away from a WSM stuffed in a short action. If you put both in a long action you are back to even. That is why a lot of long range guys use long actions for WSM's or shoot a short action single shot with the bullets seated out where they should be.

 

[SJB358]

I have never worried about rifle weight for elk hunting, just caliber plus optics, and let the weight fall where it is, within reason. I do not consider a 9-1/2 pound elk rifle in say: .340 Wea Mag scoped and loaded with good sling as being heavy.

I just would like to have my cake and eat it too! That is what keeps me from getting a really big 338. I don't think it would be much fun humping into and out of big holes. I rarely use my sling for carrying unless I am packing something so I like to be able to carry my rifle right around the magazine floorplate. Most of mine balance pretty well right there and I can hike em for a long time like that. They come up fast. If a rifle is well balanced, I am sure 9.5lbs wouldn't be too bad either, but I am starting to give up a little cartridge juice in order to have a handier rifle. I only shoot to about 500 anyhow, max, so I am really not giving up anything. Just my way though. Not knocking anybodies else's... Scotty

 

[3006]

If your building an elk only rifle then the 300win mag is the starting point and a 338 RUM is the king.
My son shoots 80.5 grains of H1000 behind a 180 AB and consistently gets sub half inch groups and 3210 FPS out of his 300wm. An '06 will do all you need to do, but if it's an elk only rifle, a bull elk is a big critter... go for the RUM! CW

 

[BK]

I have never worried about rifle weight for elk hunting, just caliber plus optics, and let the weight fall where it is, within reason. I do not consider a 9-1/2 pound elk rifle in say: .340 Wea Mag scoped and loaded with good sling as being heavy.

Gotta agree with you here... if I ever get around to building a .340 Weatherby, I am going to shoot for a ready to go but empty weight of 8.5 to 9 pounds.

 

[Mighty Peace]

Out of your list, I would go with the 300WSM....great caliber with 180gr Accubonds!! As mentioned, easily found factory ammo if your reloads get lost on a flight. Potenial to be built the lightest.

If building off a 270 rifle as a 30-06AI, why not bump up and suggest the the 338-06. Great caliber with 200-225gr Accubonds.
:mrgreen: And no, its not because I have one in the AI version.........lol :wink:

IMO the fun part of elk hunting is calling them in close....maybe its the old bow hunter in me!

I know sometimes a bull holds up and a long shot may be required.

 

[Guy Miner]

Scotty - I've got some of those white-tipped 200 gr AccuBond/.300 WSM cartridges loaded up too... Mine are good for 2815 fps from the 24" Winchester Model 70 barrel. I'm still using H4350, as it seems to work real well and I've got quite a bit of it.

I can't think of any reason they wouldn't be effective on elk, near or far.

Seems to me there's an old box of 200 gr Partitions sitting on a shelf under the loading bench too.

Guy

 

[SJB358]

I got about 2750 out of them with 66.5-66grs of RL22. Accuracy was decent as well at around an inch. That was around the 25th round down the tube though. Scotty

 

[nvbroncrider]

I would take the 700 action and put a Pac-Nor tube on it in either 280AI 338-06AI or 35 Whelen AI and load it with AB's. Anyway you look at it it would fit the bill. If I went big I would probably choose the 338. With the 225 @ .550BC or the 250 @ .575BC once you get to 300 yards the Whelen is equal, in closer you have a little more punch with the Whelen. I just ran all the numbers with a standard 338-06 and a Whelen. The .280AI will shoot flatter but at 500 energy wise all those cartridges are basically equal @ about 1500 ft-lbs. On top of it all then you have a light gun and could put a tough all weather stock on it no muzzle brake no report or recoil, and with 30 grains less powder than a 300 RUM (Cheaper!!!). I don't think you can go wrong with any of those cartidges.

 

[SJB358]

I would take the 700 action and put a Pac-Nor tube on it in either 280AI 338-06AI or 35 Whelen AI and load it with AB's. Anyway you look at it it would fit the bill. If I went big I would probably choose the 338. With the 225 @ .550BC or the 250 @ .575BC once you get to 300 yards the Whelen is equal, in closer you have a little more punch with the Whelen. I just ran all the numbers with a standard 338-06 and a Whelen. The .280AI will shoot flatter but at 500 energy wise all those cartridges are basically equal @ about 1500 ft-lbs. On top of it all then you have a light gun and could put a tough all weather stock on it no muzzle brake no report or recoil, and with 30 grains less powder than a 300 RUM (Cheaper!!!). I don't think you can go wrong with any of those cartidges.

I like everything you said but the M700. Although I wouldnt turn it down. The Whelen in standard form is awesome. The AI would just be more awesome.

 

[nvbroncrider]

I would take the 700 action and put a Pac-Nor tube on it in either 280AI 338-06AI or 35 Whelen AI and load it with AB's. Anyway you look at it it would fit the bill. If I went big I would probably choose the 338. With the 225 @ .550BC or the 250 @ .575BC once you get to 300 yards the Whelen is equal, in closer you have a little more punch with the Whelen. I just ran all the numbers with a standard 338-06 and a Whelen. The .280AI will shoot flatter but at 500 energy wise all those cartridges are basically equal @ about 1500 ft-lbs. On top of it all then you have a light gun and could put a tough all weather stock on it no muzzle brake no report or recoil, and with 30 grains less powder than a 300 RUM (Cheaper!!!). I don't think you can go wrong with any of those cartidges.

I like everything you said but the M700. Although I wouldnt turn it down. The Whelen in standard form is awesome. The AI would just be more awesome.

Yeah I'm looking at the same thing for that Pre-64 action I just bought I want a light rifle in it but something big with punch kinda classic but unique. So that leaves me with an Ackley and either a 338 or a Whelen. Looking I wrote it all down and ran the numbers with the standard 338 and Whelen. Those darn 338 AB are just so tough to beat. Kinda got me leaning for the 338AI right now. Plus the versatillity that you can drop down to the 180 or 200 and have a rocket!

 

[SJB358]

Pretty soon you'll have a 200 AB for the Whelen as well. There both excellent cartridges. Your right though, they would really be some excellent elk whackers!

 

[Elkman]

This is one of those questionairs where the outcome is pretty much slanted toward a specific outcome. Kind of like choose your favorite varmit caliber. And the choices are !!!! .223 .223. 223. I had thought after a whole week with you two I had purged out the RUM and SSSS Magnum demons. Apparently another trip to the woods is in order. (4 oz) your three peanut butter sandwiches weigh more.