Cameron I think we have a problem!!!

[wisconsinteacher]

I live in Cameron not Houston, but I still think I have a problem. When I measured 165 gr AB in my bolt rifle, I came up with 2.7180" at the ogive on the lands so I figured I should load my rounds to .10 less (2.618") than that for my first test loads. Next I went and measured out 4 loads each of 56-57-58-59 (59gr is max in my manual) I then went to the seating die and the first three sets went well. My problem comes with the 59gr rounds. They are compressed and I can not get the bullet to seat to the 2.618" at the ogive like the other rounds. The OAL of my rounds are 3.273" which is .027" less than my manual states as the MIN OAL. Do I have a problem and what can be done?

 

[SJB358]

I would try them at .010 off the lands. If you are .1 off, you are pretty backed up. If you could load them a little longer, I would try it. Either way, if you cannot get 59 in there, you probably have cases with less internal capacity than what the book used, so no worries, you will just have a max load with less powder. Scotty

 

[JD338]

Loading .100" off the lands is some pretty good jump.
I would try loading .010-.020" off the lands. Make sure your shells will fit the magazine.

JD338

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I just did some reading and see it is .01 not .1. Thanks for the quick help.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Can I lengthen them without changing the powder charge or did the compressing of the powder hurt them?

 

[SJB358]

You can lengthen them, all you need to do is pull the bullets and reseat them. If you have a puller it shouldn't take too much effort. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Compressing the powder didn't hurt them, but neck tension will be loose potentially giving aberrant results. Pull your bullets one at a time and resize with the decapping pin pulled to reset neck tension. Then, dump your charge (already weighed) and reseat the bullet.

 

[JD338]

Powder is fine.

I would pull the bullets, run the case through the sizer die and reassemble, seating the bullet to the desired seating depth.

JD338

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I don't have a bullet puller just the hammer style one. I lenghtened them all and reset them. I understand what you are saying about neck tenstion, but if I crimp them all the same that should help correct. I have them all the same to with-in .004" when measuring the ogive. I also took 4 of them and loaded them into the mag well to see if they fit and they do. How picky do I need to be on the measurements when seating the bullet? Also, the 59gr is not as compressed but when I shake the round there is not much noise from the powder so I am wondering if it is safe to fire? Thanks for helping out I really need it.

 

[DrMike]

Crimping is not the same as neck tension along the length of the neck. Whilst it can afford a measure of consistency, it is simply not going to translate into the same data on your next test. The more precise you can be, the greater your consistency. How accurate do you want your ammunition to be? That determines how "picky" you need to be. You can load a case to about 114 percent of capacity without severely compressing the powder.

 

[rick smith]

Did you try a drop tube? That will allow you more space in the case for the bullet.Rick.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I do not have a drop tube. Can I make one? My goal is to get 1" groups at 100 yards with my loads. I am kind of frusturated and am thinking about starting over. What worries me is the load that when I shake it, it does not rattle at all. I am using RP 30-06 brass that has been full length sized. As far as sizing, if they are +/- .005 at the ogive is that going to effect reaching the goal of 1" at 100 yards?

 

[Guest]

Dr Mike,
When you say re-size the case neck with the de-capping pin pulled. Would that be backing the de-capping screw stem all the way out, to the top for that process?
I think I did it that way before, just been awhile for me. Just need clarification.
Also, If one is to use the inertia (hammer) type bullet to make adjustments, would the neck tension be compromised too?



Thanks,
Don

 

[DrMike]

DON,

I just pull the decapping pin and replace the expander ball. Using the Lee Collet Die would obviate this step. However, it only takes a moment to pull the decapping pin so the sizing die doesn't punch the primer. Even using an inertia pullet puller compromises the neck tension slightly. However, it only takes a moment to slip the case into the shell holder and resize the neck before dumping the powder charge back.

 

[C.Smith]

You can easily make a drop tube. I went to the hardware store and bought a two foot section of brass pipe. I then took a metal rod that was smooth on the end and belled both ends so one would fit under my funnel and the other would fit over the case mouths I would be using. Worked great.

Corey

 

[Guest]

Dr Mike,
Thanks, I have RCBS dies. I think my brother told me he just backs out the pin and expander ball all the way. I believe that works, but like I stated I haven't done it for a while. Also there are times I see some variances in bullets causing the seating depth to be off somewhat. I would use the inertia puller to back it out then re-seat to proper depth. I often have pondered how much this would effect POI and groups shot due to compromising the neck tension. Would more or less neck tension affect pressures?

Thank-You,
Don

 

[DrMike]

Would more or less neck tension affect pressures?

The burning gases must generate a certain amount of pressure to push the bullet from the neck before engaging the lands. Should neck tension be lessened, you could get premature release without sufficient pressure to fully begin to engage the lands. The result, in this instance, would be a pause that could result in bullet upset, interruption of the sequence required for full engagement, etc. Whether or not this results in significant degradation of accuracy may not be demonstrable, the possibility remains that you have introduced another variable into the mix as you search for accuracy.

At the very least, it would seem appropriate to pull the decapping stem and ensure that the neck is reduced by running the case into the die. However, I usually pull the decapping pin, leaving the expander ball in place, and resize the neck. Some motor mica on the neck allows me to see the sizing action on the neck so that I avoid setting the should back.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Well here is my next plan. I am going to get some new sized brass and prime them up. Next I will use the hammer style puller to remove the bullet and powder. After that, I am going to remeasure my charge and reseat the bullet on the new brass. I will take the old brass and load up some 30 cal bullets I want to use up for off hand practice at the range. Does this sound like a good idea? Also, with the 59 gr charge that my be compressed a little, should I not make a test group at that weight and stay with 58gr as my max load because that is not compressed?

 

[Guest]

Dr. Mike,
Thanks a lot for your insights, sharing info. You have confirmed a lot for me. Currently I have not had any issues with POI, bullet groupings etc. on loads I have developed, but your shared experience helps me to implement some practices that will aid in better consistency.

Thanks again,
Don

 

[kraky]

I don't mean to be rude but will probably sound rude. Just go shoot the darn things. Don't worry about neck tension by reseating them. I use alot of lee collet dies and they leave neck tension as loose and possibly looser than reseating bullets in a fl sized case. Slightly compressing stick powders does not hurt a thing. If it is a ball powder you can compress a tiny bit.