Cleaning during load development?

[ScreaminEagle]

I have been thinking about this for awhile and would like some input from you guys. Say you have many different loads to test in any given caliber(22-250 for now), do you start with a clean barrel, shoot fouler, then five shot group, then clean, shoot fouler, then next five shots? What is the best method and why? I would think you would want a clean barrel for each string of different loads so everything is equal, but it's a lot of work to clean every five shots. I'm open to all opinions.

 

[DrMike]

You can make no statement about any test unless you know the base from which you measure. Consequently, I practise cleaning before each set of loads that use the same bullet/powder. The first shot will always be from a clean barrel. When I'm super precise, I clean between each set of three or five cartridges that have the same charge. This is especially the case when I'm working with a newer rifle. After a rifle has had a hundred or more rounds through it, I am less cautious in this respect, in part because the throat is already burnished by the repeated firing and cleaning. When I'm simply working with a hunting load or sighting in using the same load, I am not as concerned about cleaning between groups.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Thanks DrMike. I have six loads made up right now for the 22-250. Same bullet different powders.

 

[DrMike]

ScreaminEagle,

I really like the idea of holding variables to as near a constant as possible. In reality, it is impossible to say that each shot is precisely identical as there is infinitesimal wear on the metal with each shot. However, because the wear is so minute, it can be ignored for all practical purposes. Likewise, there is some copper deposits and carbon deposits with each shot. For precision measurements, one would need to clean after each shot. Again, the effect is infinitesimal, so the build up can be ignored up to a point. Since each rifle is an individual, one can only determine what their rifle will tolerate by trial and error. Since I work with such a wide variety of weapons, I choose to establish as my baseline for each set of test loads a clean barrel. Again, this is my basis for my personal practise.

 

[JD338]

All my loads start from a clean barrel.

JD338

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Thanks guys. I was hoping I could cheat but, I really want this gun to shoot well. I guess I'll be taking my cleaning supplies to the range.

 

[JD338]

Thanks guys. I was hoping I could cheat but, I really want this gun to shoot well. I guess I'll be taking my cleaning supplies to the range.

Always a good idea to take your cleaning supplies to the range. I like to clean my rifles at the range when I am finished. It keeps the smell at the range and makes for a happy Mrs. JD338. :wink:

JD338

 

[DrMike]

ScreaminEagle,

I try to arrange my shooting time so I can commandeer an extra bench for cleaning my rifles. I carry a couple of old ice cream pails to catch any drips and wet patches so I can work while I shoot. While one barrel is soaking, I have a rifle on the bench beginning the next test. As that one cools, I brush the barrel thoroughly. It is a system that works quite well for me. I envy the fellows that have a range for themselves.

 

[Mountain Goat]

I try to start with a clean barrel unless I know that the rifle shoots well with 9-12 rounds or so down the tube first. A couple of things that I try to do to establish a baseline is load 10-12 rounds of the first powder charge. This allows me to shoot a group(s) at the begining and end of the session to compare notes. This might tell me if the barrel likes to be shot clean or fouled. Many times I have found that the second series of starting loads shoot consideraby better than they did in the beginning. I also like to do this with factory rounds when I can. Comparing groups and velocity with factory rounds gives a nice standard of achievement to exceed with your handloads.

I take my cleaninig gear with me to the range but don't always use it. Many times a load will start to show promise, so I will run a wet patch down the barrel to knock down the powder fouling a bit, followed by a couple of dry patches. Usually the next series of groups are much improved. If not, I start over with a clean barrel. All of my factory barrels shoot better with copper and powder fouling visble. I just keep them clean enough so the "particulate" isn't visible.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Use to be real anal about barrel cleaning.

Anymore, I find myself doing it less and less, and still shooting the same size groups.

I haven't really found it to matter much. I think I had at least 50 rounds through my 243 when I started working with the 70g nbt and AA4350 without cleaning. 4 of the 6 loads still went .5" or under at 100 yards, and the other 2 were still under .9". I"ll try couple or few different powders without scrubbing my barrel these days and still I dont seem to notice the difference. In my opinion, I think a lot of people get caught up on scrubbing and making sure barrel is squeaky clean, unless your in BR I feel its really unneccesary is all. Your probly doing more harm then good in all actuality if you dont know what yoru doing and using the right equipment. A champion sniper shooter once told me you should only clean once you visibly start to notice your accuracy fall off, whether its 5, 10, 50, 100 or 300 rounds, thats when you should clean. I know I dont ever clean my 222 but every couple or few hundred rounds and thats usually because I start to feel really bad, but it still shoots .25" to .5" with hundreds of rounds down it. My 243 is still shooting .5" with about 100 rounds through it now, and couple different bullets and powders through it, still dont plan on cleaning it anytime soon.

Most important thing is to make sure you bring an extra round for your first cold bore shot or sighter, whatever you wanna call it. Chances are, its not going where your next 3 are even if there the same load, so I always make a 4th shot on the first load being tested, or bring a factory round or something. I exclude the 1st shot of the day from my testing, always. Very rarely do you get a rifle/load combo that puts the cold bore on the money, within a 1/2" is still very good.

The only time I would make an exception if I was going to a solid/copper type bullet. Then I would scrub and clean the crap out of it, shoot a few foulers and get going.

 

[OU812]

I always start with a clean barrel, 2-3 fouling shots then it's go time for accuracy. I do not clean between loads unless my barrel tells me other wise. I do the same for hunting, shoot 2-3 fouling shots prior to season and do not clean until season is over. All of my rifles, custom barrels or factory shoot a different POI with a clean barrel as to a dirty one, at least for the first shot or two. Sometimes it's not by much, so in the hunting world it would not matter but when working up accurate loads it certainly does IMO.

 

[SJB358]

Same here. I clean all of my rifles after a range session. I know they could probably go longer, but years of Marine Corps time will not allow me to go longer without cleaning. If I only fire a handful of rounds, I may wait, but not likely. I do not clean in between groups at all though. I start with bare metal, lightly lubed with a moist patch. After that, I just keep firing. I haven't seen any accuracy really fall off, but then again, I usually don't shoot more that 40 rounds at a range session. I do think keeping the throat area somewhat clean assists in the barrels staying in good shape. Scotty