Collet Sizing Dies

[truck driver]

I know there probably is a post here about these but can't seem to find it so I'll start a new one.
I was reading on Bear Tooth that you can use a collet sizing die in .30 cal for all your .30 cal. cartridges with the expense of only one die. That's one collet sizing die .30 cal to load all .30 cal. cartridges no matter if it's a .308 or a 300Rum, one sizing die fits all.
I'm guessing that the collet die only sizes the neck and doesn't touch the body so all you would have to do is set it for case length of each different case you are sizing.
Is this the way it works or am I missing something? :?

 

[truck driver]

So no one wants to talk about this? I'm some one uses them.

 

[woods]

Each Lee Collet neck sizer is limited to a single or a very limited number of calibers it will resize. The reason is that the bottom of the collet tube hits on the shell holder and raises up into the die body where the forcing cone constricts the top onto the neck brass. IOW the critical measurement is the dimension from a case's head to the junction of the shoulder/neck

If you had 2 calibers that had the same dimension from the case head to the neck/shoulder junction (e.g. 280 Rem & 280AI), then you can use the same die. But that collet die would not size the neck of a 7 mag or a 7-08

Now there may be a BUSHING die that will

 

[gerry]

I just got a Lee Collet die for the 270 Win. So far I haven't been able to size down the necks on the cases enough to hold a bullet properly, they suggested annealing fired cases so they size down a bit smaller but that hasn't worked yet. I may need to order a custom bushing but most likely will just order a Forster Neck sizing die. I like the Redding body die so far and the Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die but am having issues with the Lee die which would be a great idea if it worked.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks woods for the explanation. I must have miss read or misunderstood an article I read and that's what I was trying to figure out.

Gerry I'll pass on the Collet die and look to a neck sizing die for my needs or a body die but will need to read more about a body die. From what I have been reading about the Collet die on other web forums your suppose to turn it down till you feel restriction if that makes sense never used one or owned one and don't think I will own one from what I've read and all the trouble people have with them.

 

[efw]

I LOVE Lee Collet Neck Sizers, but as mentioned above the proper function is contingent upon proper cartridge OAL. One COULD use a 30-06 LCNS on a 300 Weatherby but it'd require dropping washers over the case after its in the shell holder to make up the difference in OAL.

I find it easier to just buy separate dies, although they're not made for the number of different cartridges I'd like.

I use them for the 223, 243, 257 Rob (& AI), 6.5x55, 7-08, 7x57, 280 AI, 30-06, 300 Weatherby, and will on my 338 WM when it's finished.

They kick out more concentric ammo and VERY greatly increase case life by work-hardening only the necks, which are relatively easily annealed.

 

[gerry]

efw, have you had the issue I mentioned earlier? I have followed the instructions closely but still can't get the neck sized down enough. The concept sounds good and I was hoping it would work.

Rodger, the Redding body die works well, I decided to go that route combined with a neck sizing die to see if run out is reduced. All my other dies are standard FL sizing and standard bullet seating dies, was wanting to try something new with the 270 Win.

 

[woods]

Like efw I use them on every caliber where Lee makes one. Even have ordered a custom one in 6.5 rem mag

The Lee Collets come with a mandrel that is generally .002" below caliber. After springback the ID of the neck will usually only have a .001" bullet grip. If the neck is work hardened you will get more springback and less bullet tension. Lee says that the low bullet grip is one of the reasons that the end result has good concentricity

There are 3 solutions to the problem of low bullet grip

1. Lee recommends using their Lee Factory Crimp Die to securely hold the bullet
2. You can chuck the mandrel in a drill and hold it against an abrasive surface and reduce the diameter. However I had poor luck using this method as the mandrel needs to be completely round and the same diameter from top to bottom. The collet bears upon the upper portion of the mandrel but the mandrel has to be pulled up through the neck on the way out. So if it is larger at the bottom of the mandrel it will re-expand the neck on the way out
3. My solution is to order undersize mandrels from Lee. They only cost about $5.00 each but there is a minimum order dollar wise so you might have to get a few or something else

 

[gerry]

Thanks for the info option 3 does sound like the best solution. Sounds like you like them a lot as well.

 

[BretN]

Gerry,
I've had your same problem when I first started using lee collect dies. There are several short youtube videos on die setup that helped me when the lee directions didn't make sense to me. I have an rcbs press and set it up sililar to a lee press. The toggle camming action of the rcbs can help neck size without applying so much force. The video explains it pretty well.

After I run the shell through the die I check neck tension with a bullet. If the bullet slides right in, I didn't use enough force with the press arm and the shell goes back through the die. Eventually, you get the feel for it. I do like the Lee collect dies, but there was an adjustment period. They do produce accurate reloaded and is quicker because you are not lubing the cases.

 

[gerry]

Thanks, I'll make sure to check them out

 

[gerry]

Thanks for the suggestion BretN I just watched a couple of YouTube clips and things are working well now. He did it a bit different from what the Lee instructions said (or maybe I just misread them) but it works fine now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTUgytUGnM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHR43TN5Zk

Thanks again, this is one of the things that make this forum so good being able to get some good advice.

 

[BretN]

Yep, youtube is great. I think I set mine up about one and a quarter to one and a half turns, not the 2 turns lee recommends for the rcbs press.

The lee instructions say that after sizing once, if you turn the shell in the shell holder 180 degrees and size again, the round will have even better concintricity. So I always do this, but I dont have a guage to confirm this. Has anyone else done this and can confirm that the finished rounds are more concentric. Or more accurate?

 

[gerry]

I had my RCBS press set up like Lee had suggested, setting up like the guy in the clip worked much better. I didn't turn the cases 180 degrees but will next time, I am about to reload some W-W and Nosler cases and can report back on how concentric they are.

 

[woods]

What the guy in the video essentially did was adjust the die down until the collets exerted force on the case neck and pressed the brass onto the mandrel as the die is intended to work. Setting the press to operate this way will work as long as your neck thicknesses are the same or very similar. However if you run into a case that has a thin neck then you will not get the same neck tension. Conversely if you run into a case that has a thicker neck then you will be exerting unnecessary force on your die and press. Too much force and you will pop the aluminum cap (don't ask me how I know ) which works like an electrical fuse in that it prevents damage to the die.

There are lots of ways to skin a cat and you must find the way that is best for you. For me I adjust the die by raising the lock ring all the way to the top of the die

When I raise the case up into the die, this setting will keep the press lever at it's most horizontal position

Then I just lean on the lever with the same weight each time and get good results.

Once the brass is pressed onto the mandrel, it does not matter how much more force you put on the lever/die, the results will not change. You will never exert enough force to compress the steel of the mandrel or reduce the neck thickness of your brass, period. You will just compress the linkages on your press, bend the bottom of the collet tube where it contacts the shell holder or pop the aluminum cap.

I think efw mentioned the washer trick. I have used it quite often

It will leave part of the neck next to the shoulder unsized and, some say, center the case neck

Many years ago when I assiduously chased the concentricity demon back to it's nasty little hole (not gone but just the nose sticking out), I came to the conclusion that the Lee Collet gets you at least 85% of the way there. IMO if everyone used one, there would be little use for the concentricity gauges as mine all gather dust on the shelf. Anyone want to buy a Bersin or RCBS?

JK I don't sell equipment, usually give it away to local young beginner reloaders

 

[gerry]

Thanks woods for your help, looks like you have them figured out to work well for you.

As for concentricity things are looking good. With the Nosler brass they are pretty much as good as before since they are very good cases, with the W-W brass things are noticeably better than before and run out has improved. So far things are working well........

 

[truck driver]

Might have to get one made for the New 35WHelen Imp.