Cost

[super-7]

Very interesting Gil!! I have heard of guys fighting over the moose nose.
The heart ceremony I find very interesting aswell, appreciation for harvested animals sometimes get lost in the hoopla of the hunt, and as hunters we are part of nature and we should remember to say thank you to the animal and creator for the sustenance.


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[Thankful Otter]

First my apologies to Dan, for straying from the subject

Second, what a great post Gil, thank you

And then a quick story and then a question----when I was very young a grizzly charged my father and I and he waited hoping it was a bluff but when it became obvious that he was not going to stop my father shot him and he shot him in the head. I didn't say anything but he knew what I was thinking when I looked up at him and he said, "it is better that he haunt us than to kill us". But Gil is correct we try to never shot an animal in the head.

Question to Gerry, Dr Mike and Gil. Do you or have you hunted in the Great Bear Rainforest and your opinion of the dispute ? I am in no position to judge as I have helped with trophy hunts in the past, but we are not suppose to kill any animal for sport, only for substance

 

[sask boy]

Cheyenne, please do not apologize to me :wink:. I find this very interesting and I hope that everyone can learn something from it.
Please, lets keep the dialogue going :mrgreen: .

Blessings,
Dan

 

[truck driver]

In my youth I do remember my father saving the heart and liver from deer but as the farmers started using more and more chemicals he said that the liver wasn't fit to eat because of the chemicals that it filtered and stored. The hides were either sold or tanned for later use for clothing and gloves. I had my first rack buck hide tanned with the hair still on and it was used as a blanket or shawl and was displayed on the back of a couch till the fur got bad and was turned into a possibles bag. It got to the point that the hides cost more to process and the market went sour so the hides were disposed of and only the meat kept along with the antlers.
I'm sure that the meat from game that is harvested up north or in the mountains out west is a lot healthier than what we harvest off the farms here on the east coast.

The deer here have shown signs of wasting disease which started in new england area and has steadily marched down the coast and spread out into PA,MD and VA. It's mostly found where hunting isn't allowed and the deer are severely inbred.

 

[DrMike]

I've never hunted the "Great Bear Rain Forest." I consider the name and the designated reserve to be a misnomer ginned up by foreigners (Kennedy clan, Hollywood starlets, etc.). The animals there still need to be managed, and part of good management entails hunting. All grizzlies hunts in British Columbia were restricted to Limited Entry Hunts in c. 1993. The grizzly population appears quite healthy, but the subject of a grizzly hunt when mentioned in Vancouver or Victoria (or Los Angeles, or New York, etc.) still generates heartburn for many people (mostly liberals, but all unfamiliar with living with grizzlies). I don't believe I've ever shot an animal in the head, but it is less an issue of theology than it is practical. I prefer the shot that has the highest probability of a kill through connecting with the point of aim.

 

[truck driver]

Great Bear Rain Forest sounds like a movie title out of Hollywood I do believe DrMike has it right.

 

[Europe]

I've never hunted the "Great Bear Rain Forest." I consider the name and the designated reserve to be a misnomer ginned up by foreigners (Kennedy clan, Hollywood starlets, etc.). The animals there still need to be managed, and part of good management entails hunting. All grizzlies hunts in British Columbia were restricted to Limited Entry Hunts in c. 1993. The grizzly population appears quite healthy, but the subject of a grizzly hunt when mentioned in Vancouver or Victoria (or Los Angeles, or New York, etc.) still generates heartburn for many people (mostly liberals, but all unfamiliar with living with grizzlies). I don't believe I've ever shot an animal in the head, but it is less an issue of theology than it is practical. I prefer the shot that has the highest probability of a kill through connecting with the point of aim.

+ 1

most of these California and New York liberals have never even camped in their back yard. I am so sick of their holier than thou attitude,especially on issues where they have ZERO knowledge, which is almost everything, with the exception of trying to outdo each other on who can show the most skin in public. I say let s put a couple of the Grizzles from BC and a couple of Wolves from Wash, Montana, or Wyoming in their back yard. These people have no idea what they are talking about. As Dr Mike stated, the animals must be managed and part of that management involves hunting. Some of this liberal nonsense has spread to the great state of Arizona unfortunately

 

[Thankful Otter]

April, you have to quit holding back. Tell us what you truly think LOL

I agree with DrMike on both points. Management of animals and head shots

 

[hunternyny]

Dr Mike, cheyenne, April

If you think it is bad for you folks, you should try living amongst them (-:

Actually, surprisingly, most of the libs are in New York, not so bad in upstate NY

Actually, one of the places my wife and I had hoped to visit while visiting Canada was Great Bear Rain Forest, but we ran out of time and now we are focused on Alaska as our next destination

Like, Dan, this has been a very informative and enjoyable thread for me. I would actually like to spend a few weeks with Gil and live the life as a guest of his tribe. I think it would be very educational and enjoyable

 

[gerry]

I've never hunted the "Great Bear Rain Forest." I consider the name and the designated reserve to be a misnomer ginned up by foreigners (Kennedy clan, Hollywood starlets, etc.). The animals there still need to be managed, and part of good management entails hunting. All grizzlies hunts in British Columbia were restricted to Limited Entry Hunts in c. 1993. The grizzly population appears quite healthy, but the subject of a grizzly hunt when mentioned in Vancouver or Victoria (or Los Angeles, or New York, etc.) still generates heartburn for many people (mostly liberals, but all unfamiliar with living with grizzlies). I don't believe I've ever shot an animal in the head, but it is less an issue of theology than it is practical. I prefer the shot that has the highest probability of a kill through connecting with the point of aim.

Cheyenne, I live in the "Great Bear Rainforest" and agree with DrMike's assessment on who is behind it. In short they are people who willingly believe lies so there is no way you can ever reason with them as with normal people. Just thinking about it really irritates me :lol:

There are no shortage of bears here and they do need to be managed like any other species. We eat black bear all the time (spring bears are by far they best over here for the table) and I think spring grizzly would be alright. The one time I ate grizzly was from the fall and it wasn't great.

 

[DrMike]

I agree that I generally prefer spring bear, Gerry. I have eaten spring grizzly; other than the meat being somewhat coarse relative to black bear, it was flavourful. I did not find grizzly objectionable, especially when smoked in my Bradley smoker.

 

[Blkram]

Cheyenne, I have not hunted the Great Bear Rainforest, and while it holds great bears (the Kermode are incredible in their whites; at least in pictures, as I have not had the pleasure of seeing one in person while living in Prince Rupert and Terrace in '90-91), the forest is indeed "Great". Huge trees, steep coastal mountains, plenty of fish in the streams, etc. I should have hunted goats there, but didn't as I wasn't hunting much at the time. I should get out there and hunt them with Gerry...maybe next year! Sorry, I am not up to date on the dispute there. But we are taught that if we look after the land, it will look after us. This includes hunting and responsibly using the resources that the land provides us.

I have done a little guiding, whereas my Dad has about 45 years of guiding behind him, and his Dad had 47 years of guiding, and I'm not sure how many years of guiding my great-grandfather had. But they have all left moccasin tracks throughout the Rocky Mountains from Waterton to Terminus Mountain.

An uncle tells the story of one of his brothers being attacked by a grizzly, and him having to be careful not shoot his brother as he killed the bear to save his brother (story actually told in the Gordon Eastman hunting video "Bears and Bear Hunters") I was always taught better to shoot the bear than be killed by him. When encountering a bear, we are also taught to talk to the bear in a respectful manner; even asking him for forgiveness for disturbing him and/or permission to pass by him on our journey through his territory (both in live encounters and in dream encounters). If he deems us worthy, he will answer us and we will understand his answer. If not, we may quickly know his answer!

Dan, there are many more uses, but these are just a few of the main ones we can share.

Super7, if you watch the Edge on WildTV, the one host practices a heart ceremony on the show very similar, that he was taught by the Ojibway in Ontario. The difference is that they do not cut off the tip of the heart, and they bury it after presenting and praying. The Saulteau part of my family lineage is actually Ojibway, but the French gave the Band a different name when first meeting them near Sault St Marie. I believe that ceremony was slightly altered as influenced by our Cree or Dene heritage during or after our migration to here in northeastern BC.

Hunternyny, (and anyone else for that matter) if you are ever going through to, or returning from Alaska in mid-August, we hold our annual Culture Camp somewhere in the bush within our traditional territory here, and we invite visitors to come and share time in camp with us, over the two week period, and watch/participate in many of our cultural activities (hunting, fishing, gathering, making dry meat, drum-making, games, storytelling, feasts, etc.). Bring your tent and camp chairs!

 

[sask boy]

Thank you Gil for all that you bring to this forum :wink:. Being able to hunt with DrMike, you & gerry has been one of the greatest highlights of my hunting journey .
I hope to give it a couple of more tries before I have to hang up my hunting boats!

Blessings,
Dan

 

[truck driver]

Gil that's an invitation I just might take you up on if I can convince the wife to sleep in a tent.

Reflecting back earlier in this post Cheyenne commented about the many uses of the animals harvested. Sounds somewhat like what we did when we butchered hogs and all parts were used and nothing wasted. I would snack on fried cracklings and swipe a piece of kidney out of the head meat pot when know one was looking. Boy those were the days.

 

[gerry]

Cheyenne, I have not hunted the Great Bear Rainforest, and while it holds great bears (the Kermode are incredible in their whites; at least in pictures, as I have not had the pleasure of seeing one in person while living in Prince Rupert and Terrace in '90-91), the forest is indeed "Great". Huge trees, steep coastal mountains, plenty of fish in the streams, etc. I should have hunted goats there, but didn't as I wasn't hunting much at the time. I should get out there and hunt them with Gerry...maybe next year! Sorry, I am not up to date on the dispute there. But we are taught that if we look after the land, it will look after us. This includes hunting and responsibly using the resources that the land provides us.

You of course are welcome to come on over Gil, it would be fun.

I remember that scene from Bears and bear Hunters I bet he was hollering a bunch Would have loved to have met Gordon Eastman he seems like he was a great guy and had lots of cool adventures. I have probably watched every film he has made multiple times.

A few Kermode bear pictures I have taken.

 

[Guy Miner]

Wow! What great photos Gerry!

 

[sask boy]

gerry these photos are excellent :wink: were they taken around Terrace. I am just wondering are they of the Black Bear family just a different colour phase?
Thank you for the post.
Blessings,
Dan

 

[DrMike]

Great pictures, Gerry. They are black bears, Dan. Gerry, now I want to see your pictures of a Glacier Bear. That is the one colour phase I haven't seen.

 

[gerry]

gerry these photos are excellent :wink: were they taken around Terrace. I am just wondering are they of the Black Bear family just a different colour phase?
Thank you for the post.
Blessings,
Dan

Thanks all for the kind words.

Yes Dan they are just another colour phase of a black bear and are in this area. Technically all black bears in this area are Kermode bears, in order to have a white cub both parents have to have a certain recessive gene. You can have a sow that has both black and white cubs in the same litter or a white sow with black cubs.

DrMike, I believe the Glacier bears are more around the Tatsenshini river and adjacent parts of Alaska so have never seen one here.

Maybe a new thread is in order

 

[DrMike]

Interestingly enough, there have been rare reports of "Kermode" bears in this area. So, while the gene is recessive, it can be expressed on rare occasions. Presumably, there might be reports of "Kermode" bears in other locations far removed from the "Great Bear Rain Forest." Some, unfamiliar with the genetics of the "Kermode," imagine these to be albino bears. However, Gerry's excellent photos demonstrate that these are not albinos. Note the eyes on these bears.