Counting antler tines...

[Guy Miner]

Normally I prefer a fixed power scope for hunting. They're relatively light, compact and simple to use. I have a 2.5x on a .45-70 Marlin, a 4x on a 1917 based .30-06 sporter, a 6x on a 7mm Rem mag Rem 700 and a 12x on a varmint weight .308 for precision shooting.

For general-purpose deer hunting though - a good variable sure is nice to have. Several years ago Washington State adopted a 3 pt minimum for mule deer. Now at 200 - 300 yards or more, it's mighty tough to count antler tines with a fixed 4x. I can see the deer just fine. I can see it's a decent sized buck, but we have some BIG 2x2 bucks here so a guy has to be careful. This season, like last season, I've been hunting with a 4.5 - 14x on my .25-06 Rem 700 CDL. Very nice setup.

Typically I spot the deer with my eyes or binoculars, then get on him with the scoped rifle. Immediately I look at the antlers. Lots of points? Two points? Sometimes a fellow just can't tell w/o cranking up to 10x, 12x or even 14x... A big wall-hanger 4x4 or better dispenses with this requirement, but I'm not usually fortunate enough to be eyeballing big 4x4 or better trophy bucks.

Yup - another good reason to use a variable power scope on a deer rifle.

Regards, Guy

 

[Guest]

So what kind of 4.5-14 are you using, Guy? I am considering what to scope a 270Wby with, and since it is in the neighborhoood of your 25-06 as far as intended use and utility is concerned, and you seem to like your scope, what are you using?

 

[Guy Miner]

For some reason this is my favorite picture of the scope... :grin:

Nothing real fancy, but it sure works well. It's a Leupold Vari-X III, one-inch tube, 40 mm adjustable objective, with the fine duplex crosshairs. Nice scope for deer, coyotes or rockchuck sniping! I've had the scope for several years, on several different rifles. This .25-06, Rem 700 CDL is a keeper though. The scope and rifle work out real well together.

I think it would be dandy on a .270 Weatherby! That's a hot-rod cartridge for sure...

Regards, Guy

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

If you added target knobs to that scope, it would be sweet. I like the 6-18 vx2 fine duplex as well. Leupolds are great scopes. Good combo for a flat shooting rifle that will see some doube duty usage like coyotes and deer.

 

[Guy Miner]

Just happen to have another one, with target knobs... :grin:

 

[Desert Fox]

I guess that's why spotting scope was invented to evaluate antlers and points. It is my opinion that anything above 14X magnification on a scope is a total waste. When I was a young shooter, high magnification always dictate my scope purchases. Three of my premier varmint rig wears high magnification scope. My 6MM Remington Mauser wears the Burris 8X32 Signature. The 222 Remington Magnum 40X and the 223 Kimber has the 6X24 and the 4.5X14 Bausch and Lomb Elite 4000 respectively. Those scope were all set at 12X and hardly been cranked above that. My hunting rifles with the exception of my Tactical 308 which has the Excellent 16X MarkIV Leupold LR, all wears scope with no more than 14X magnification.

 

[R Flowers]

My 25-06 wears the same model of 4.5 X 14 that Guy is shown with in that great picture. In fact, I own four of them. It is a great scope for the dual purpose 25-06 as I use it for deer, antelope, wild hogs, coyotes, marmots, etc.

However, lately I have been having trouble seeing that fine duplex crosshair in dim light and have moved on to another model of 4.5 X 14 on my last two rifles. After looking at some of my buddies scopes I purchased two Leupold 4.5X14x40 LR scopes with the Boone and Crockett reticle. Those are GREAT scopes.

I did not think I wanted to go with a 30mm scope due to the size of the darned things, but these are not too bad with the 40mm bell. I put them both in Leupold dual dovetail rings and bases and what a solid set up that is. The side focus is great and I enjoy the Boone and Crockett reticle immensly.

The crosshairs on those scopes standout very prominantly and my dad and I both used that model of scope to shoot wild hogs the other evening when it was pretty near dark. We wound up finishing the gutting using flashlights!

I shot a black bear recently with one of those scopes that was at a dead run through the buck brush, found him in the scope and plastered those crosshairs on his shoulder with ease.

And while I have not done any long range killing of game with these scopes as of yet, I have done lots of target shooting with them. A friend has a ranch that has a gong set up at 400 yards from the shooting bench and it is easy to center punch that thing time after time using the 400 yard mark in those scopes.

For a 270 Wby Mag the 4.5X14X40 LR would be a great choice.

 

[Guest]

Out of curiosity, I have been checking out scopes at various retailers, and I have discovered that the Zeiss Conquest in 4.5-14x40 has an advantage at high magnification over all of the major scopemakers. Even the Leupold is not as good at 14x as the Zeiss, so I think, even though it is a tad more expensive (about $50-75) than the Leupold, I may have to buy the Zeiss. Now I have to save up a little more.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Nothing wrong with Zeiss. I was actually thinking real hard about them when I purchased my MK4. They are very very bright and crisp/clear. Very nice scope and well worth the money spent. I think they are hands down better then a swarovski.

 

[340boy]

The zeiss conquest 4.5X14 does look like a very nice scope. I had a 3-9X conquest on a 30-06 I gave to my dad for Xmas...
It was very bright, but rather heavy I thought, also good , repeatable adjustments.
I have a swarovski 4-12X on my 270'bee', a great setup in my opinion, it has the TDS reticle which I like.
I would like to try a Mark4 "loopy" sometime though! Looks like a nice outfit.

 

[Guy Miner]

Desert Fox - yes - I use the heck out of a spotting scope too! Time to time though, when travelling light w/no spotting scope, a good clear, high magnification rifle scope has shown me if a deer was legal game, or not.

In the past I wasn't a big fan of high power optics on a deer rifle - but now that I have to count antler tines... The higher power variable scopes have won a place on at least a couple of my hunting rifles.

Regards, Guy

 

[Desert Fox]

Guy, I agree but I don't think you have any problem discerning antlers with a good 10X scopes even at extreme distances. Like you, I have the same purpose in mind when I bought the 8X25 Leupold for my 300 Win Mag Model 70 Laredo LRH. It didn't take long for me to realized that the scope doesn't belong to that rifle. The field of view was so narrow even at 8X that I have a hard time acquiring target. I sold the scope and the rifle now wears the 4.5X14X50 Vari-X III Tactical with mil-dot.

 

[Jeff Ovington]

Guy.Your telling me...You point your gun at an animal you may or may not intend to shoot??
Counting tines using your scope???
I HONESTLY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT i'M READING...
And I honestly can't believe that nobodys brought this up...
You don't point your gun at anything you don't intend to shoot........
GEEZ LOUIS MAN...ITS THE LAW...
USE YOUR BINO'S FOR COUNTING TINES AND SEARCHING FOR ANIMALS....
THAN AND ONLY THAN POINT YOUR SCOOED RIFLE AT THE ANIAMAL
IF ONLY YOU INTEND TO SHOOT IT.....
Honestly I've had enough of this web site in 2 min.....

 

[Jeff Ovington]

Guy.Your telling me...You point your gun at an animal you may or may not intend to shoot??
Counting tines using your scope???
I HONESTLY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT i'M READING...
And I honestly can't believe that nobodys brought this up...
You don't point your gun at anything you don't intend to shoot........
GEEZ LOUIS MAN...ITS THE LAW...
USE YOUR BINO'S FOR COUNTING TINES AND SEARCHING FOR ANIMALS....
THAN AND ONLY THAN POINT YOUR SCOOED RIFLE AT THE ANIAMAL
IF ONLY YOU INTEND TO SHOOT IT.....
Honestly I've had enough of this web site in 2 min.....

 

[JD338]

Guy.Your telling me...You point your gun at an animal you may or may not intend to shoot??
Counting tines using your scope???
I HONESTLY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT i'M READING...
And I honestly can't believe that nobodys brought this up...
You don't point your gun at anything you don't intend to shoot........
GEEZ LOUIS MAN...ITS THE LAW...
USE YOUR BINO'S FOR COUNTING TINES AND SEARCHING FOR ANIMALS....
THAN AND ONLY THAN POINT YOUR SCOOED RIFLE AT THE ANIAMAL
IF ONLY YOU INTEND TO SHOOT IT.....
Honestly I've had enough of this web site in 2 min.....

Jeff,

If you read closely, Guy identifies his target with binoculars before he looks through the scope.

Typically I spot the deer with my eyes or binoculars, then get on him with the scoped rifle. Immediately I look at the antlers. Lots of points? Two points? Sometimes a fellow just can't tell w/o cranking up to 10x, 12x or even 14x... A big wall-hanger 4x4 or better dispenses with this requirement, but I'm not usually fortunate enough to be eyeballing big 4x4 or better trophy bucks.

Guy is a very accomplished hunter and marksman, not wreckless as you are insuniatng! Give the man credit for postivitly identifing his target and not ground checking.

JD338

 

[Guest]

I believe Jeff's disgust is based on the fact that Guy doesn't actually kill every deer he scopes, regardless of the legality of the deer. Just because Guy chooses not to harvest an animal after crosshairing him doesn't make him unsafe. I understand the idea of not pointing your gun at things you don't intend to shoot, and I practice it. But there have been times in every hunter's life when they are faced with taking a different shot than they initially considered, based on a better target appearing, the existing target becoming unsuitable either through something noticed through the scope, or perhaps position or shot angle or vegetation obscuring the target. I can say unequivocally that I have never pointed my scope at something to identify it, but I have looked at a doe through my scope, decided she did not look as good now as when I bino'd her prior to putting my rifle on her, and eased away from the shot. Ditto for looking at smaller bucks in a field when a larger one suddenly walks out.

I imagine, based on Jeff's disgust within 2 min, that he is not the kind of person I would hunt with, and if he chooses to exercise a different constitutional right that to freely express himself here, we will not be angry with him.

 

[Guy Miner]

I debated about even posting that I dared look at a deer or other game, with my rifle scope... Figured someone would disagree with that.

Haven't been blasted like that in quite a while though! :grin:

Ah well... Jeff - if you're still reading, join the conversation. I try to keep it civil, even when I disagree with someone. We're all here because we like rifles, shooting and hunting.

Yup, I do use eyeballs, 8x Swarovski rangefinder and 10x Nikon binos to try and determine if a buck is legal or not. Sometimes we get some real big 2x2 mulie bucks around here - and essentially I'm looking for eyeguards or a branch antler tine at least one inch long. I've seen a few 2x2's with 20" racks... But they're not legal!

Even in field conditions, it's easy to determine if a big mature 3x3 or 4x4 is legal - the antler mass alone is generally enough. If I THINK a buck is legal, I'll put the rifle scope on him, and double check the tine count. Saved a healthy 2x2 buck this past season that way... My son and I jumped him, and John was about to pound the big young deer, but I could see that he was only a 2x2, no eyeguards or branch tines making him legal. Initially I'd thought he was a legal buck too - so my crosshairs immediately went to him when he broke out of the brush. Then I saw he wasn't legal and called off my son... Neither one of us shot what should be one heck of a nice 3x3 or 4x4 next season!

Regards, Guy :shock: