Coyotes still coming to the Fox Pro.

[35 Whelen]

Thanks guys well I think if you study the features on this big coyote it is easy to notice that the ears are darn short , a sure sign of wolf blood............. I would guess this thing has a large percentage of wolf in it no question about it. I shot a big 55 lb one a couple of years back and I think I posted it on here the thing had a nice complete circle of black right around its neck exactly like a HUSKY dog has...........so I am pretty sure that one had more actual Husky in it as I never saw a wolf marked like that.
Yotesmoke I think you are right on with your thoughts there. And Woody I am still hoping to someday find a 70-80gr bullet that will expand like those 58grVax do and I would have the problem solved. I dont have any trouble killing them with any old bullet it is just I would like to have it so the bullet was heavy enough to not get into major drift problems at 300 yds and so thin in the jacket it would expand instantly as it started into the dog. I had great hopes for those 70gr Varmageddon bullets but I dont think they ever really produced them????
I couple of notes on the 75gr Vmax is that shoulder shot coyotes are vaporized with this thing as it does NOT go thru them then! So if I could ever get a broadside shot [got one yesterday first one in ages] it actually works fine. Also caught one walking right off from the side of the house out to the bait one morning and head shot it and that did NOT exit either . But every time I shoot one down thru the chest it will actually exit the stomach area leaving a HUGE mess and they run anywhere from 25-300 yds according to how the diagonal angle is and what it hits in there! :x
This picture will give you all a good idea of the avg size of them here.

 

[JD338]

Earle

That is one big coyote
Nice looking game pole full of coyotes too, congratulations.

JD338

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks JD,
That picture is from back in around 2005 before they got the mange here so there were lots more around and we used to hear them all the time. Now we hardly ever hear them anymore and never in the daytime. So old Mrs Mother Nature is working her madjic once more and I am sure they will return to those highs again sometime in the future! With hunting like everything else you get out of it exactly what you put into it. I actually find coyotes interesting animals, but unfortunately I find Whitetail Deer MUCH more interesting!

 

[Hegland]

If you run the numbers for the wind drift of a 58gr bullet at 300yds with a direct 20/30 knot wind you will soon see why I cant use them

Yep, I observed the same thing with those bullets in prairie dog towns. So in terms of getting heavier bullets to open up, I guess I'm not much help.

 

[35 Whelen]

Hegland,
This 75Vmax is close to gettin it on and definately works fine as long as you can shoulder shoot them from the looks of this nice big female I got a couple of days ago........... NO EXIT hole and devastated her on the spot . But this same bullet has let me down plenty on the chest shot already this winter. So I am so darn close with the 75gr it actually works correctly if I could get them to stand broadside but that only happens less than 10% of the time.
Here are some wind drift figures for the 75 gr bullet so you can easily guess how much worse it gets if you drop down to 58grs................
Drift@10mph from 90degrees 200yds=3 3/4" 300yds= 8 1/2"
Drift@10mph from 45degrees 200yds= 2 3/4" 300yds= 6 1/4"
Drift@15mph from 90degrees 200yds= 5 1/2" 300yds= 12 3/4"
Drift@15mph from 45degrees 200yds= 4" 300yds= 9 1/4"
Wind Drift note is that a 45 degree wind drift is NOT half of the drift of the 90degree-angle. But infact is three quaters the drift. It has approx a 71% effect, of the 90 degree angle X's .715,
even though the angle is only halfway between, no drift effect and full drift effect. As the drift effect is NOT proportional, due to the aerodynamics ballistics of a bullet in flight.

Even at 75grs wind is now a huge factor to me with it commonly blowing 20 kts plus here all the time in winter and that is normally almost a direct crosswind. If they ever stand broadside I always hold on the end of the animal on the upwind side of them and it if it hits them it will be close to the other end of them when the wind is blowing over 20kts! With a 30kt wind to fire at a coyote at 300yds is just something I cant master with only the chest and head to shoot at......... :x

 

[YoteSmoker]

Have you tried the 105 a-max or 95 berger? Berger makes an 88 also that should help with the wind and open up fine on a coyote.

 

[35 Whelen]

Yote Smoker, That is a darn good idea as Brian had already gave me a heads up on that bullet as well and now Scotty has also chimed in that those might be the story as well. I am just having a mental blockage going heaver in weight!!!! But am very aware that it is all tied to velocity and jacket thickness ............................ simple as that . So I guess I better get some and try them as what a super bullet that would be with that high BC and all that weight to knock the snot right out of them if it were to expand correctly!!! And its ability to buck the wind would be a BIG help to me over these lighter bullets. Thanks to all of you for trying to help here, as I am fully aware that my particular situation is a unusual one, but I have to deal with it.
105 Amax here we come! :shock:

 

[SJB358]

Chances are, that AMAX, will really shoot well for you too Earle. I can get to about 2975 with that 105 in my short barreled 243 with RL22. Plus, again, it is very accurate as well, and man, it'll stand up to the wind really well.

 

[35 Whelen]

Scottman,
That is Dually Noted!! And thanks for always being there and trying to help. I appreaciate it alot as I most certainly do not have all the answers on this subject and am constantly learning about it. :grin: Plus I bet I will have alot better luck finding them than the "mystery bullet" they called the 70gr Varmaggetmesome????????????????

 

[Guy Miner]

I am glad you're whacking and stacking the coyotes!

Here's a link to a little penetration/expansion test I did with the 105 A-Max not long ago:

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=19389

Interesting bullet with tremendous accuracy potential, and it's pretty fragile.

 

[Guy Miner]

The 115 gr Berger VLD from my .25-06 penetrates a coyote, no doubt. Back-side of this coyote was pretty much torn open after a hit from 160 yards or so. Good thing was that it didn't go anywhere after the shot. Bad thing was that it would have been difficult to stitch up the hide. Very messy off-side:


I've used those same bullets on mule deer with excellent results, and generally no exit.

Biggest coyote I've ever shot, measures 60" from tip of nose to tip of tail. Not sure what he weighed, but lugging him back up the ridge to the truck was a bit of work.


Smallish, but nicely furred coyote I shot last fall on the mule deer/pronghorn trip. Hit him at about 420 yards with a 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. The bullet entered his back, and exited the chest. It dropped him instantly, but the exit wound was surprisingly small. Something to consider? I think the heavier (for caliber) BT's are rather tough bullets. Will likely exit, but maybe not with the BIG holes other bullets produce?






I need to make time to go shoot some more coyotes!

Guy

 

[35 Whelen]

Guy,
Those are great pictures of the yotes................ some darn fine ones with nice prime coats on them. Very nice. This bullet info on here is interesting and when you start to try to come up with a bullet that isnt effected by the wind alot and will knock them off their feet but NOT blow a mason jar sized hole out the backside; is actually a fairly tall order , and your statement that what works perfect on deer, sure doesnt usually work perfect on coyotes, is a very true statement..............
Its almost like sayin that a 35 Whelen is a great deer cartridge ................. it really isnt IMHO it is way to much gun with the heavyer bullets it performs so well with. And if you drop way down in weight to the 180/200 gr bullets it looses all its advantages it had over the 30/06 so its really the same old story it has always been, Its to match the bullet to the caliber, so that you can transfer all of the energy in the cartridge; into the animal you are hunting. Hunting storys to me about how huge the exit hole was, and how old leatherstockings tracked em down afterwards, with the animal painting the bushes, while leaking gallons of blood, makes a great story after a few highballs, and is entertaning to the untrained ear . But for me that is about bedtime........... I was hearing all that when I was 6 years old at the lodge, from guys that had all those same storys. :shock:

 

[Guy Miner]

Yeah, it's kind of funny, the past few years my youngest son has turned from his 6mm Rem to the .30-06 for his deer hunting, and I used the .308 Win the year before last.

We had been using the little 6mm Rem and the .25-06 for a fair number of years and had gotten used to smallish exit wounds, or none at all when I used the Berger VLD bullets. Bang. Flop. Dead deer. Very quick, neat and clean.

When we went back to using .30 cal rifles with 165 gr bullets, he learned for the first time what a tremendous exit wound can look like, and I got a refresher course on it. Still, the longest we had to "track" one was about 20 yards, in the snow... Not real tough.

With the bigger cartridges and bullets we're seeing more penetration & exit wounds, but we aren't killing deer any faster than with the 95 - 115 gr .24 & .25 cal bullets.

Coyotes... I have to admit that I rarely save a hide and mostly shoot them just because they're preying on MY mule deer. I'll shoot them with whatever is handy.

Guy

 

[35 Whelen]

Hey that 25/06 is one awesome gun and I have always wanted one .............. figure that would be the ultimate long range yote rig ???? Love to find one in a Win Featherweight with some decent wood in it?????? Maybe someday. The little 6mm is also a proven performer and has a great track record on Deer I have lots of friends that swear by them. I watched lots of Dahl Sheep take some wicked hits with the 6mm and it really rocks their world. The 25/06 is the caliber I saw the longest shot we ever had a sheep killed ............... the guy was a very knowledgeable Army sharpshooter and had one of the first Sheperd Scopes I ever saw,,, he smoked a Dahl Ram at 700 yds and I couldnt believe it! This was long before the days of us all watching Best of the West and all this hype about Husqmaw and Niteforce "Dail a Death" turrets. Anyway its sorta cool that all this talk always winds up back at the same spot when discussing bullet performance. I personally think the American public has been brainwashed with all the hype about premium bullets , as all this advertising is true if you are shooting large thick skined game and bonding and thick jackets are where its at for sure. But for the avg American hunter out shooting a 250lb Black Bear or a 200lb Deer the fact is that in 40 years of guiding it is still hard to out perform on Deer, a common Corelokt or Hornaday Interlock [samething?] And because I am seeing more and more, of this premium ammo, that people are paying a forture for, that would perform super on a Eland or Kudu,that just pokes holes straight thru deer and 90% of the time they run off and have to be tracked down and killed because the bullet just goes thru to fast with very poor expansion if any and transfers jack into the animal. I had a Hunter with me in Ontario in 2009 east of Kenora that fired at a nice big buck with Reminton Scirocco bullets,[Great Brown Bear bullets] he thougt was the total answer because he paid $40 per box for them, and what I witnessed was probably one of the poorest attemps at killing a deer you could imagine. He hit it 5 times with a 30/06 before it stayed down !!!!! Those bullets showed very little sign of expanding at all and the exit holes looked about the same as the entrance holes, he would have been FAR better off with a box of Corelokts for $15...................... He came to Maine in 2010
and shot a 45" mediumish Bull Moose with some of those same bullets that weighed in at 760lbs dressed and again he shot it three times with the bullets all showing poor expansion until he finally hit it right in the shoulder and of course BINGO the bullet finally expanded and flattened the moose. He gave what was left of the box of shells away and told me he would never make that mistake again. Anyway hunters will debate this until the end of time and folks will swear by a certain make of cartridge with lots of times very very little to actually back up their theorys........

Guy.
For what ever its worth our hunters shooting 30/06 are having fantastic luck lately with the Hornady SSTs in 150/165gr when pushed to 3000/2900fps with lots of instant kills and the deer laying right ontop of the four tracks it was standing in, when hit properly. Absolutely devistating results on Whitetails and Black Bears here in Northern Maine. Pretty much TOTAL transfer of the energy that the caliber has into the animal. I am recomending them to all our hunters as they are of course available commerical loads as well and we have not had ONE unhappy result with that bullet on Deer or Bear to date, they work flawlessly for us.