Cutting custom dies to fit custom chambers?

[jgradyo]

I posted the following in "Rifles" and got no bites at all:

Next year's chambering prompted me to grab a copy of P.O. Ackley's 2 volume set. I'll be darned if I can find it right now, but I read somewhere in there about (probably when buying a custom rifle in a wildcat chambering) having reloading dies cut by the same smith that does the chamber. I can imagine a FL Sizing die with closer tolerances than even the best toolmaker going from a SAAMI spec or a drawing.

I've done some reloading (Hornet, .223, 8x57, .300 Win, .45ACP), but I'm no expert. Would there be a measurable benefit (case life, accuracy, ease of setup, safety??) from reloading with a die made like that? I'd think so, but what do you veteran handloaders think?

For that matter, the Noslers could offer up a serialized custom die to go with the .280AI, and subsequent issues, epecially if they are custom chamberings. Silly idea?

The topic I'd like to bat around is the potential benefit of cutting a F/L sizing die to match the chamber of a custom rifle (in general, and specifically as it relates to the NCR). Am I wrong to think that such a die could be made to tighter tolerances so that handloads would be a better fit? Wouldn't it be true that such a die could be cut so that the handloader could simply screw the die down to touch the shellholder, and KNOW that virgin brass will be formed to match the custom chamber more closely than off-the-shelf dies?

The count is 0 and 1 -- he steps anxiously up to the plate for a second swing...

Comments?

Grady Ogburn
NCR05-200

 

[FOTIS]

I am not an expert on the subject. Now that said I would speculate that doing this would make those dies good only for prepping brass that will fit your rifle only. If your chambers were cut without any imperfections then i can not see any negative things about this idea.

Why do you not call Redding and ask them. They are a great company and will be honest with you. Post their response please.

 

[jgradyo]

I am not an expert on the subject. Now that said I would speculate that doing this would make those dies good only for prepping brass that will fit your rifle only.

Well, we non-experts can speculate with the best of 'em. Fact is, my post was an attempt to debunk or to... uh... to "bunk" my own speculation.

I figure it'd be a good trade-off, limiting how many rifles I can load for in order to get gear suited perfectly for my rifle; I don't load for anyone but my brother and myself.

What I'd like to hear is what some of the old salts have to say about whether it really would make for more consistency, or longer brass life, or better accuracy...

If your chambers were cut without any imperfections then i can not see any negative things about this idea.

Neither can I, other than possibly the price. I'm hoping the veterans will chime in on any negatives I've missed, and whether the positives we're speculating on hold any water.

Why do you not call Redding and ask them. They are a great company and will be honest with you. Post their response please.

The main reason I wanted to ask here first was because I don't yet have .280 AI dies, and I'm bringing home one of those NCRs in .280 AI :grin:. Seemed like if I wanted to investigate whether I ought to get a custom die cut to fit the chamber on that rifle (possibly by the same person who cuts the chamber), that I'd probably have to start right here.

If I get convinced that it'd make a meaningful difference in the reloading/ shooting experience, and it could be done without taking out a mortgage, I'd sure call a few die makers. If it comes to that I'll make sure everyone here knows what happens.

<DREAMSEQUENCE> Bob Nosler shakes his wizened head at the assembled family brain trust and says, "Now why didn't *I* think of that? Son, find out whose idea it was and hire him to design, manufacture, and test fire EVERYTHING. Junior, get right on that custom die thing. Genius."</DREAMSEQUENCE> :grin:

Grady

 

[rick smith]

If you are loading for a true wildcat, in this case a round you can't already get dies for, you will have to get dies made by someone. Having a custom set made is expensive, the FL die has to be hardened after it is cut and the only way it could be cut to fit your press/shellholder would be for the maker to have your press/shellholder unless the die is made adjustable and to fit the standard 7/8x14 thread in most presses. There are companies that make blank dies so your smith can use a reamer to cut the die. The reamer is a little larger than the case that will be used or you couldn't get the case into the chamber. So if you use that reamer it will make a die a little too large. So you remove a few thousants from the bottom of the die and try a fired case. Now where did that fired case come from? Out of the rifle that you are trying to get dies made for? So how would you load the cases to begin with? We are lucky now with all the different dies offered. If you are just necking up/down, no problem. Most AI calibers are available. It is when you design a wildcat not based on anything currently available that you run into some problems. Been there, done that. Even with the dies made to fit your chamber there is the possibility of your shellholder or press not being concentric with each other. So you could consider Wilson type dies and an arbor press. This could go on and on but I think you get the point.Rick.

 

[jgradyo]

Thanks, pard. That's what I'm looking for -- lessons from the school of hard knocks.

 

[Norseman]

jgradyo,

please post your questions at www.accuratereloading.com as I am curious as what other's would say.

I know of a gunsmith who does what you were thinking about, perhap's you should direct your questions to him, Greg Tannel: www.gretanrifles.com 8)

 

[jgradyo]

please post your questions at www.accuratereloading.com as I am curious as what other's would say.

I just cruised the site very quickly. Looks like a great resource. Just what I needed -- another website that I feel compelled to spend time on. Which would be the best forum for this question? Reloading? Gunsmithing?

I probably won't get to it right away, but I'll definitely join up.

I know of a gunsmith who does what you were thinking about, perhap's you should direct your questions to him, Greg Tannel: www.gretanrifles.com 8)

In this case, I'm trying to determine whether it would make sense to try and have the person cutting my NCR chamber to also cut a custom die. Contacting another gunsmith would kinda defeat the purpose, but thanks for the contribution!

 

[Greg Nolan]

As a shade tree re-loader I think the old P.O. Ackley comment might stem from the fact that there were no SAAMI standards back then and a lot of wildcats had minor variations from others of the same type. 8mm-06 for instance. The neck length and taper were slightly different from what is standard now because us shade tree folks did the re-chamber and dies and it worked fine, in one rifle.