Elk knockdown

[Darkhorse]

Several years ago I was hunting elk in NW Colorado. There were a couple of brothers in camp from Milwaukee, one had a H&H .375, The other a Weatherby .378 W/muzzle break . When we checked our zero I knew things were going to be interesting if we got into elk.
The second day the younger one with the .375 got a 250 yard, almost straight downhill shot he took kneeling at a nice bull. He had practiced and shot a good 4 shot group right through the guts. The bull ran off while he was trying to reload and had to be dispatched after trailing him down. He said later that he didn't really know where to shoot a big game animal.
The second brother shot his at about 50 yards but his group was all over the bull. Again, after a trailing job he dispatched the bull.
Both were surprised their bulls didn't go down at the first shot. They thought caliber was the only thing that mattered.
Large rifles don't hurt but it's shot placement that anchors the game.

 

[salmonchaser]

I myself witnessed a well placed 25 06 bang step flop just last Monday. This is all part of the great mystique of elk hunting.

 

[Anonymous]

As food for thought...

Here's a piece from a friend of mine- elk guide Dennis Carroll.

http://montanaelkhunting.blogspot.com/2009/12/270-winchester-for-elk-hunting.html

Dennis has written quite a bit about rifles for elk hunting.

 

[zacii]

A co-worker of mine shot a nice bull several years ago, with his .378 Weatherby. He affectionately refers to this rifle as his sledgehammer.

He hit the bull about 80 yards away, in the front shoulder, with a 270 grain Hornady bullet, I forget exactly which one. The bull, he said just kinda stiffened up and winced at the impact. He turned around and started to trot back to the timber when my buddy sent another 270 grain bullet through his other shoulder.

He racked another round in the chamber, but heard the bullet go down less than 100 yards away.

Upon dressing the bull, he said that the bullet penetrated the shoulder & lungs and stopped in the hide on the opposite side. He said that he could see how the hide stretched as big as a basketball when the bullet hit. The second shot did the same thing from the opposite side.

The first shot was fatal, penetrating both lungs, but the bull refused to be DRT.

I told him the 378 was obviously too weak for elk...


My question is, what would it have taken to break that front shoulder on the first shot? A different bullet design?






Sent from the edge of my galaxy

 

[Guy Miner]

I'd say so - the 270 Hornady kills well, but is deliberately on the "soft" side of .375 bullets, made to expand readily, not necessarily for maximum penetration.

Am thinking that a Nosler Partition, or one of the bonded, or mono-metal bullets (Barnes etc) would have likely broken bones and penetrated on through.

Who knows though? I have only a smattering of experience with the .375 afield.

Regards, Guy

 

[SJB358]

I'm with Guy, a bonded or PT'ed Bullet may have blown all the way through. Although I can't see a problem with a big bonded Bullet like an A-Frame, Oryx, AccuBond, etc that does make complete penetration but it caught on the far side hide but maintains that big frontal area the whole way through.

 

[JD338]

The Partition was designed to open up fast, smash through bone and exit. So to answer your question,
yes a different design may have given complete penetration.

JD338

 

[Gunner46]

Might I suggest a RPG ? But, on a serious note, there is NO cartridge that will DRT any critter unless you put the shot where it needs to be. A 7mm-08, 270, or 308 will do just fine....as long as you do your part.

 

[shoots_5]

I won't expand on what's been already said as I mostly agree. I've shot a lot of elk with guns ranging from a 6mm to a 338 and here is my observation. While shot placement is critical I think that an elks knowledge of your presence and adrenaline level play a huge role in how they react to being shot. By that I mean if they know you are there and especially if you've jumped them and their adrenaline is up you likely aren't going to drop them in their tracks. They'll run 50-200 yards with a well placed double lung shot. If they have no idea you are in the country and are perfectly relaxed is where I've seen more consistent one shot DRT shots happen. Could be coincidence but I personally don't think it is. And for the record my personal favorite elk cartridge is the 300H&H and I generally load it with 165gr AB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[khh]

A few years ago I shared a deer camp with a guy that owned a really high end elk outfit. I don't recall his name or the the name of he's outfit , I asked the price of a hunt and after hearing that there was no need to remember it. He had seen a lot of elk shot over the years , so naturally I wanted to talk guns and bullets. Like most have said knocking them down was mostly a matter of breaking bone. If they where hit right they died , make a poor shot and there really tough. He said a lot of times they lock up and just stand till they drop and can absorb lot of lead when this happens. He had bullets he liked and bullets he hated . He talked about hunters showing up with calibers from 270 to 375 he didn't seem to care as long as they could shoot. One thing he did say was he has some guys from New York that hunt with him every year. They shoot Remington Sendaro's in 338 RUM with hand loaded 200gr. Accubonds , he said that comb really flattens a elk. I remember that because I happen to own a 338 RUM and it does knock the snot out of anything I shoot with it. KH

 

[Vince]

A few years ago I shared a deer camp with a guy that owned a really high end elk outfit. I don't recall his name or the the name of he's outfit , I asked the price of a hunt and after hearing that there was no need to remember it. He had seen a lot of elk shot over the years , so naturally I wanted to talk guns and bullets. Like most have said knocking them down was mostly a matter of breaking bone. If they where hit right they died , make a poor shot and there really tough. He said a lot of times they lock up and just stand till they drop and can absorb lot of lead when this happens. He had bullets he liked and bullets he hated . He talked about hunters showing up with calibers from 270 to 375 he didn't seem to care as long as they could shoot. One thing he did say was he has some guys from New York that hunt with him every year. They shoot Remington Sendaro's in 338 RUM with hand loaded 200gr. Accubonds , he said that comb really flattens a elk. I remember that because I happen to own a 338 RUM and it does knock the snot out of anything I shoot with it. KH

On both ends.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[diverdown]

Yeah, you got that right Vince. If I put more than 5-8 rounds off the bench with my .338RUM I go home with a headache, but when you hit things with it positive results definitely happen.

 

[Bonz]

Ummmm... 35 Whelen/AI. 10 elk say "knock down"... And I added a Muley buck to the list of critters succumbed by the Whelen AI over the weekend. 200 gr TTSX broadside at 100 yds. Nice .358 entry hole, between the ribs and was expanded as it went out the other side leaving no doubt the TTSX design expands more quickly than any older X bullet even on smaller animals. But lacks nothing in the overall penetration department from the two elk I have taken with one shot a piece last year and the year before. If a rug was ever pulled out from under a critter, this was it.

Frontal area is a big factor in on-animal effect, and the larger calibers regardless add more to the mix.

I share the story because not only is the cartridge important, the bullet chosen makes the only actual impression on the animal, so choose a good one.

 

[DON]

As the saying goes. No matter the gun, in the right hands, it's deadly. You gotta make the shot count, bullet placement is everything but knowing the gun and how to shot it is key, plus using a good premium game bullet does have it's benefits!

I have Colorado hunting buddies that use 264 Win Mags for Elk, they never have a problem bringing the meat home. Witnessed one friend drop a Cow Elk in her tracks with the 264 too.

Don

 

[Greg Nolan]

375 Ultramag with the 260 grain AccuBond at 3080 fps has just taken elk #s 5 & 6. From 30 to 300+ yards. Pictures will follow in new post. The rifle weighs 7.5 lbs with scope and sling. Rem 700 XCR. Yes it has a muzzle break.