Hey guys Iam having a problem with my C.O.L. for my 223. The problem is that some of my loads are slightly longer than others, say a few thousandths. Iam loading for an ar-15 so i just load max magazine length I dont feel like the problem is in the dies or the press. Could the problems mabey be due to out of true brass at the head, or primer seating? also iam actually measuring the length tip to tail with a bare caliper is this the wrong method? Any help would be greatly appreciated
erratic O.A.L
- Thread starter craiger40
- Start date
G
Guest
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I think your doing just fine if they're all with in .005" of each other. That's about what i get. It shouldn't affect your load pressure's very much and since it sounds like your not close too the lands ( Rifling ) I don't see a problem there either.
Cartrige overall length is measured from base to tip.
lead tiped, soft point bullets will vary in lenght due to deformation of the tip.
Your seating die should not contact the tip when seating bullets. The seating die usually contacts the bullet at the jacket.
A few thousandths difference in COL when using soft point bullets is normal.
lead tiped, soft point bullets will vary in lenght due to deformation of the tip.
Your seating die should not contact the tip when seating bullets. The seating die usually contacts the bullet at the jacket.
A few thousandths difference in COL when using soft point bullets is normal.
G
Guest
Guest
Even with plastic tipped ballistic tip type ammo you'll still see a few thousandth's of an inch variation. Because the Ogive, i believe is what it is called is not 100 % consistent on every single bullet. The Ogive is the part of the bullet that the die contact's when you seat the bullet. That's the correct word Thank You.
The proper way to measure the bullets consistency is to measure off of the ogive, that is to measure from the jacket taper to the base of the cartidge. Primers should be seated slightly recessed from the base so they shouldn't effect the measure of OAL. I Used an old seater from a seating die. I cut it off with a hack saw and then trued it w/ a file to give me a consistent measureing device. I place the seater on the bullet, then I measure the OAL from the top of the seater to the base of the bullet. I ONLY USE THIS NUMBER to check consistancy because it isn't the acutal over all length. I have found that most bullets vary a few thousanths even if they are plastic tipped.
Bullets can vary quite a bit from base to tip. Measure a couple of them of any nose profile and see what you find. I used to see a lot of variation in plastic tipped bullets but they seem to be getting better, although they still aren`t all the same. HP styles also have shown a lot of difference in my limited experiance. The lead tips on regular Spitzer bullets get damaged and one never knows what they will measure.
The seating die seats from the ogive and should not touch the tip as mentioned by another poster. If the die went from the tip the lenght from ogive to lands would be showing as much variation as you now see from cartridge base to tip. This also has the depth the bullet is in the case changing which doesn`t help uniform case volume, and possibly uniform ignition/pressures in some cases.
The base to ogive measurment is alot more consistant. Use a Stoney Point or Sinclair comparator to check your OAL for uniformity when seating, and simply set the seater to keep what you feel will be the longest nose lenght (base /tip) within SAAMI spec.
The seating die seats from the ogive and should not touch the tip as mentioned by another poster. If the die went from the tip the lenght from ogive to lands would be showing as much variation as you now see from cartridge base to tip. This also has the depth the bullet is in the case changing which doesn`t help uniform case volume, and possibly uniform ignition/pressures in some cases.
The base to ogive measurment is alot more consistant. Use a Stoney Point or Sinclair comparator to check your OAL for uniformity when seating, and simply set the seater to keep what you feel will be the longest nose lenght (base /tip) within SAAMI spec.
- Thread starter
- #7
Hey yall i have found the problem i dont believe the primers are being seated correctly and why i dont know. I put a straight ruler across the case head and sure enough my primers caused the ruler to be able to rock back and forth. I have been using my RCBS hand primer and iam sure iam seating them as far as i can with it. I have cleaned all the flash hole web areas and even used a flash hole deburring tool but to be honest did not pay much attention to the primer seating depth. I do have the stoney point comparators like some of you have mentioned but since iam loading for my ar-15 i just make them as long the mag will allow which is 2.25" in this case.
Scott in Michigan
Beginner
- Mar 29, 2006
- 9
- 0
I had the same problem when I began reloading for the .223. I found that my RCBS dies were contacting the bullet at the very tip instead of the ogive. I ran a drill into the seating stem for a very short distance.
Then I noticed that the altered stem was marring the ogive where it contacted it when seating the bullets. After polishing the contact point, bullets can now be seated within a couple of thousands without marring them.
Then I noticed that the altered stem was marring the ogive where it contacted it when seating the bullets. After polishing the contact point, bullets can now be seated within a couple of thousands without marring them.
YoteSmoker
Handloader
- Oct 3, 2006
- 1,602
- 0
Sounds like you need to uniform the primer pockets. What kind of brass is it?
- Thread starter
- #10
- Thread starter
- #11
I now know why i had high primers. A few months ago i took my RCBS hand primer apart to clean it . When i reassembled the hand primer i flip flopped the part that accept the ball end of the linkage, one side of that part has a bigger cup which was not extending the primer rod far enough
More often than not it seems its human error. I appreciate all the ideas and thoughts guys.
More often than not it seems its human error. I appreciate all the ideas and thoughts guys.
craiger40:
High primers are a potential danger because they can go off when the round is chambered.
I used to have trouble getting my primers seated deep enough until I started using one of the Sinclair Primer Pocket Uniformers. Now, I don't need to check with a straight edge, I can feel them and tell that they are below the case head.
It's a great tool. I even use the Uniformer to clean the primer pockets on subsequent loads.
Smitty of the North
High primers are a potential danger because they can go off when the round is chambered.
I used to have trouble getting my primers seated deep enough until I started using one of the Sinclair Primer Pocket Uniformers. Now, I don't need to check with a straight edge, I can feel them and tell that they are below the case head.
It's a great tool. I even use the Uniformer to clean the primer pockets on subsequent loads.
Smitty of the North
Jeff Olsen
Handloader
- Nov 10, 2006
- 294
- 2
craiger40":206r8g7b said:
Whew! That's the one big no-no when loading for an AR15. You need to get those primers seated DEEPER than flush. You can get a slam-fire very easily with high primers and a semi-auto with a floating firing pin.
-jeff
- Thread starter
- #14
Great point, jeff about the high primers and i was lucky enough not to have that problem with slam fire. I did however manage to get the primers seated below flush. I dont know how to measure how deep i do have the primers seated any knowledge would be great . The speer reloading manual just says to get the primer tight against the flash hole area so the primer ignites correctly, I do believe i have acheived that. Have you had any luck with the short barrel loads you have been working on? I found a few weeks ago that my 24" AR will eat just about anything . I sent my chrony to get upgraded and wont be able to get velocity for a while but accuracy is ok definitly "YOTE" capable but could use some tighting up. Well good luck, good shooting and until next time
Jeff Olsen
Handloader
- Nov 10, 2006
- 294
- 2
I don't think it matters, as long as the primers are "deep enough". I run my thumb across each shell as I prime it and i want to feel that the primer is a slight "dimple" (that's what it feels like) but I don't measure how deep it is...
Slam fires with high primers are a real issue with Garands or M14-pattern rifles. I don't know if it's as much an issue with an AR15 -it might be- but it just makes sense to seat them below flush.
As far as my short-barrel loads... heh heh... I don't know! The little M4 has been eating everything I throw at it without a hiccup as I use up various powders that I've had around for a couple years that needed to be burned. I have not shot it over a chrono. I have not even cleaned it yet in about 350 rounds! I'm going to put together a 60-gn Partition load soon and maybe transition over to this rifle being my bump-in-the-night gun and then I'll pay more attention to velocity and accuracy. For now, I'm very pleased with the accuracy of the rifle with ANY of the loads I'm shooting with it. I can hold about 2.5 MOA at 100 yards and with the short sight radius and open sights, that's about as good as it's possible for me to shoot that way. I'll stick a scope on it at some point and see what's up. Hopefully an ACOG! Gotta sell more houses!
I should get my new toy, a DPMS 308-LR with a 24" barrel, tomorrow. That's going to be interesting.
-jeff
Slam fires with high primers are a real issue with Garands or M14-pattern rifles. I don't know if it's as much an issue with an AR15 -it might be- but it just makes sense to seat them below flush.
As far as my short-barrel loads... heh heh... I don't know! The little M4 has been eating everything I throw at it without a hiccup as I use up various powders that I've had around for a couple years that needed to be burned. I have not shot it over a chrono. I have not even cleaned it yet in about 350 rounds! I'm going to put together a 60-gn Partition load soon and maybe transition over to this rifle being my bump-in-the-night gun and then I'll pay more attention to velocity and accuracy. For now, I'm very pleased with the accuracy of the rifle with ANY of the loads I'm shooting with it. I can hold about 2.5 MOA at 100 yards and with the short sight radius and open sights, that's about as good as it's possible for me to shoot that way. I'll stick a scope on it at some point and see what's up. Hopefully an ACOG! Gotta sell more houses!
I should get my new toy, a DPMS 308-LR with a 24" barrel, tomorrow. That's going to be interesting.
-jeff
