FINAL UPDATE: 250 Sav AI

[bobnob]

Folks I have a bolt action chambered in 250-3000 Ackley Improved heading my way in a week. The rifle will have a 24 inch barrel with a 1-10 twist.

Loading data is hard to find. I'll be using the Hodgdon Extreme powders mainly. Will probably be looking to load the 85-87 grain range if bullets initially.

Anyone have any inside running on starting points for some loads? I'm thinking I'll probably start with H4895 and around that burn rate.

What say ye?

 

[cloverleaf]

Mr P.O Ackley actually wrote a book on loads for his "improvements" and a lot of other rounds. I cant think of the title at the moment. A friend of mine has a copy. I will see if I can get in touch with him and let you know the title. Great book. I couldn't talk him out of it. Incidentally, as you may know, the 250 AI showed the highest percentage of improvement for all his improved rounds. Some 110 BT's would be wonderful. As I recall, it beat out the 243 by a ways. I am more than jealous. Keep us up to date.

My unimproved 250 didn't like the 87 gr's. My loads are: 35 Gr of 4064 under a 100 gr BT or 40 Gr of 4350 under a 75 Gr Hornady V-Max. CL

 

[bobnob]

Thanks CL. All uncharted ground for me. My first wildcat chambering.

I've got some 85g BTs to get me started. I'd reckon 3400fps might not be out of the question.

I certainly will report back on the results. Thanks again.

 

[Dwh7271]

Mine didn't care for the light bullets either. You are correct, though, it'll zoom an 85.
I ended up getting sub-.75" 5 shot 100 yd groups consistently with the 110 AccuBond. Know it's not what you're looking for but here's the load.
RP Brass, WLR primer, 37 gr RL15, 110 AB, COAL 2.58
24" barrel, chrono avg 2840 fps

FWIW, I really believe RL15 must have been made with the 250AI in mind. :grin:

 

[cloverleaf]

Bobnob- here is a link to a copy of Ackleys book. Good reading:
http://sportsmansvintagepress.com/produ ... -o-ackley/

I am almost certain the reloading section includes data for the 250 AI. However, as I said I don't have a copy any more. CL

 

[bobnob]

Mine didn't care for the light bullets either. You are correct, though, it'll zoom an 85.
I ended up getting sub-.75" 5 shot 100 yd groups consistently with the 110 AccuBond. Know it's not what you're looking for but here's the load.
RP Brass, WLR primer, 37 gr RL15, 110 AB, COAL 2.58
24" barrel, chrono avg 2940 fps

FWIW, I really believe RL15 must have been made with the 250AI in mind. :grin:

Thanks again both.

If it ended up shooting the 110g AB that well I'd be delighted! It would handle 95% of the game I routinely shoot at, if not more.

 

[SJB358]

Not sure if these are helpful or not. Seems like CFE223 is pretty good, but probably not too much better than 4-5 others.. Let us know if there is something else you were looking at.

Cartridge : .250 Ack Imp (250 Savage)
Bullet : .257, 85, Nosler BalTip 43004
Useable Case Capaci: 48.479 grain H2O = 3.148 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 35.20 2787 1466 33508 7922 91.3 1.294
-18.0 83 36.08 2852 1535 35703 8156 92.4 1.262
-16.0 85 36.96 2917 1606 38019 8382 93.4 1.229
-14.0 88 37.84 2982 1678 40479 8599 94.4 1.193
-12.0 90 38.72 3046 1751 43094 8808 95.3 1.158
-10.0 92 39.60 3111 1826 45873 9006 96.2 1.125
-08.0 94 40.48 3175 1902 48828 9194 96.9 1.094
-06.0 96 41.36 3239 1980 51971 9370 97.6 1.063
-04.0 98 42.24 3302 2058 55316 9534 98.2 1.034 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 100 43.12 3366 2138 58877 9684 98.7 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 44.00 3429 2219 62671 9821 99.1 0.978 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 104 44.88 3491 2300 66716 9944 99.5 0.952 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 45.76 3553 2383 71032 10051 99.7 0.927 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 108 46.64 3615 2467 75642 10143 99.9 0.902 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 110 47.52 3676 2551 80571 10219 100.0 0.879 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 112 48.40 3737 2636 85847 10279 100.0 0.856 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 44.00 3560 2392 73186 9571 100.0 0.916 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 44.00 3248 1991 52328 9651 94.6 1.060


Cartridge : .250 Ack Imp (250 Savage)
Bullet : .257, 85, Nosler BalTip 43004
Useable Case Capaci: 48.479 grain H2O = 3.148 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 74 36.80 2789 1468 31261 8299 91.6 1.322
-18.0 76 37.72 2857 1541 33386 8549 92.8 1.289
-16.0 78 38.64 2925 1615 35670 8788 93.9 1.257
-14.0 79 39.56 2993 1691 38107 9015 95.0 1.222
-12.0 81 40.48 3061 1768 40712 9231 96.0 1.185
-10.0 83 41.40 3128 1847 43500 9433 96.8 1.150
-08.0 85 42.32 3196 1928 46485 9620 97.6 1.116
-06.0 87 43.24 3263 2009 49685 9792 98.2 1.083
-04.0 89 44.16 3329 2092 53116 9947 98.8 1.052
-02.0 91 45.08 3396 2176 56783 10085 99.3 1.021 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 92 46.00 3461 2261 60681 10205 99.6 0.992 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 94 46.92 3527 2348 64845 10306 99.8 0.964 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 96 47.84 3591 2434 69306 10388 100.0 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 98 48.76 3656 2522 74092 10450 100.0 0.911 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 100 49.68 3719 2610 79230 10504 100.0 0.885 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 102 50.60 3782 2700 84754 10555 100.0 0.861 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 46.00 3603 2450 72652 9839 100.0 0.922 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 46.00 3259 2005 49135 10111 95.2 1.085


Cartridge : .250 Ack Imp (250 Savage)
Bullet : .257, 100, Nosler BalTip 25100
Useable Case Capaci: 46.970 grain H2O = 3.050 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 72 34.80 2621 1525 32192 8257 94.4 1.401
-18.0 74 35.67 2683 1598 34350 8483 95.4 1.366
-16.0 76 36.54 2744 1672 36653 8698 96.3 1.333
-14.0 78 37.41 2806 1748 39108 8901 97.1 1.295
-12.0 79 38.28 2867 1825 41728 9091 97.8 1.256
-10.0 81 39.15 2927 1903 44525 9267 98.4 1.220
-08.0 83 40.02 2987 1982 47505 9428 99.0 1.185
-06.0 85 40.89 3047 2062 50653 9573 99.4 1.151
-04.0 87 41.76 3107 2143 53990 9703 99.7 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 88 42.63 3166 2225 57544 9815 99.9 1.088 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 90 43.50 3224 2308 61333 9909 100.0 1.058 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 92 44.37 3282 2391 65373 9988 100.0 1.029 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 94 45.24 3339 2475 69686 10061 100.0 1.001 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 96 46.11 3395 2560 74292 10132 100.0 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 97 46.98 3451 2645 79217 10200 100.0 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 99 47.85 3507 2731 84489 10264 100.0 0.923 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 90 43.50 3340 2476 73049 9531 100.0 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 90 43.50 3052 2068 49803 10014 97.1 1.154


Cartridge : .250 Ack Imp (250 Savage)
Bullet : .257, 100, Nosler BalTip 25100
Useable Case Capaci: 46.970 grain H2O = 3.050 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 79 33.20 2604 1506 34033 7843 93.8 1.376
-18.0 81 34.03 2663 1575 36187 8060 94.7 1.345
-16.0 83 34.86 2722 1645 38469 8268 95.6 1.308
-14.0 85 35.69 2781 1717 40886 8468 96.4 1.271
-12.0 87 36.52 2839 1789 43447 8658 97.1 1.236
-10.0 89 37.35 2897 1863 46161 8837 97.8 1.202
-08.0 91 38.18 2954 1938 49037 9006 98.3 1.169
-06.0 93 39.01 3012 2014 52086 9163 98.8 1.138
-04.0 95 39.84 3069 2091 55320 9308 99.2 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 40.67 3125 2169 58751 9440 99.5 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 41.50 3181 2247 62393 9558 99.8 1.050 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 101 42.33 3237 2327 66262 9663 99.9 1.022 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 43.16 3292 2407 70374 9753 100.0 0.996 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 105 43.99 3347 2487 74750 9830 100.0 0.971 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 107 44.82 3401 2568 79408 9905 100.0 0.946 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 109 45.65 3455 2650 84374 9976 100.0 0.922 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 41.50 3290 2403 72595 9252 100.0 0.985 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 41.50 3026 2033 52291 9534 96.4 1.134



Cartridge : .250 Ack Imp (250 Savage)
Bullet : .257, 115, Nosler BalTip 25115
Useable Case Capaci: 45.792 grain H2O = 2.973 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 77 31.60 2452 1535 34581 7721 95.8 1.456
-18.0 79 32.39 2506 1603 36722 7920 96.6 1.422
-16.0 81 33.18 2559 1672 38985 8111 97.3 1.383
-14.0 83 33.97 2613 1743 41376 8292 97.9 1.345
-12.0 85 34.76 2666 1814 43903 8463 98.4 1.308
-10.0 87 35.55 2718 1887 46573 8624 98.9 1.273
-08.0 89 36.34 2770 1960 49395 8773 99.3 1.239
-06.0 91 37.13 2822 2034 52378 8911 99.6 1.207
-04.0 93 37.92 2874 2109 55533 9036 99.8 1.175 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 95 38.71 2925 2184 58872 9149 99.9 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 39.50 2975 2260 62405 9249 100.0 1.116 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 99 40.29 3025 2337 66147 9339 100.0 1.088 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 41.08 3075 2414 70112 9426 100.0 1.061 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 41.87 3124 2492 74316 9511 100.0 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 104 42.66 3172 2570 78778 9593 100.0 1.010 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 106 43.45 3221 2649 83518 9673 100.0 0.985 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 39.50 3066 2400 72355 8946 100.0 1.050 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 39.50 2841 2061 52487 9366 97.8 1.203


Cartridge : .250 Ack Imp (250 Savage)
Bullet : .257, 115, Nosler BalTip 25115
Useable Case Capaci: 45.792 grain H2O = 2.973 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon CFE223

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 70 32.80 2452 1535 32187 8047 96.1 1.493
-18.0 71 33.62 2507 1605 34295 8253 97.0 1.457
-16.0 73 34.44 2563 1677 36538 8447 97.7 1.421
-14.0 75 35.26 2618 1750 38923 8630 98.3 1.381
-12.0 77 36.08 2673 1825 41446 8799 98.8 1.342
-10.0 78 36.90 2728 1900 44099 8955 99.3 1.304
-08.0 80 37.72 2782 1976 46899 9097 99.6 1.268
-06.0 82 38.54 2835 2052 49867 9223 99.8 1.234
-04.0 84 39.36 2888 2130 53016 9335 100.0 1.200
-02.0 85 40.18 2941 2208 56357 9431 100.0 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 87 41.00 2992 2287 59904 9519 100.0 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 89 41.82 3044 2366 63670 9604 100.0 1.107 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 91 42.64 3095 2445 67672 9687 100.0 1.078 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 92 43.46 3145 2526 71927 9768 100.0 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 94 44.28 3195 2607 76455 9846 100.0 1.024 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 96 45.10 3245 2688 81277 9921 100.0 0.998 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 87 41.00 3091 2439 71024 9176 100.0 1.062 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 87 41.00 2844 2066 48857 9747 98.2 1.237

 

[Dwh7271]

Had to edit my post, speed was wrong by 100 fps. Sorry, misread my notes(I have terrible handwriting) It is at 2840 fps chrono avg not 2940.
Here's how I got there if it matters. I used the OBT calculator and it did very well.
OBT node 5 is at 1.228 ms.
I went into QuickLoad and messed with charge weights until I got close. Shot it. Then massaged depth a hair and done.
Here's the Quickload with that load specifically on it.

Cartridge          : .250 Ack Imp (250 Savage)
Bullet             : .257, 110, Nosler AccuBond 53742
Useable Case Capaci: 45.921 grain H2O = 2.982 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   70    29.60   2337    1334   27872   7357     91.9    1.582
-18.0   72    30.34   2391    1396   29531   7576     92.9    1.544
-16.0   73    31.08   2444    1459   31281   7788     93.9    1.507
-14.0   75    31.82   2497    1523   33125   7994     94.8    1.471
-12.0   77    32.56   2550    1588   35069   8192     95.6    1.436
-10.0   79    33.30   2603    1654   37117   8382     96.4    1.401
-08.0   80    34.04   2655    1722   39275   8564     97.1    1.364
-06.0   82    34.78   2707    1790   41548   8736     97.7    1.328
-04.0   84    35.52   2759    1859   43942   8899     98.2    1.294
-02.0   86    36.26   2810    1929   46464   9051     98.7    1.260  ! Near Maximum !
[b]+00.0   87    37.00   2861    2000   49121   9193     99.1    1.228 [/b] ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   89    37.74   2912    2071   51921   9324     99.4    1.197  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0   91    38.48   2962    2143   54872   9442     99.7    1.168  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0   93    39.22   3012    2216   57983   9549     99.9    1.139  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Don't know if that helps or further muddies the water.
By the way, nodes for the 24 are around 1.228 (5) and 1.102 (4) and 1.022 (3)
Should give you a starting point anyway.

 

[Blkram]

I recently made up some loads for my 250 AI; can't wait for a decent day and the ability to get out to the range to try them!

The bullet weight that I am hoping to get to shoot well is the 110 gr. and have loaded both the AB and InterBond. Want it to be primarily a deer, wolf and antelope round.

Here are the loads that I've prepared, using Quickload:

All in Winchester fireformed cases w/ Federal 210M primers @ 2.600" coal

110 AB;
IMR 4350 w/ 39, 40.5 and 42 gr
IMR 4831 w/ 39, 40.5 and 42 gr
WXR w/ 43, 43.5 and 46 gr
VN 560 w/ 43.5, 45 and 46.5 gr

110 IB;
WXR w/ 44.5, 45.5 and 46.5 gr
R-22 w/ 44.5, 45.5 and 46.5 gr
VN 560 w/ 44, 45, 46 and 47 gr

Will advise as to performance once tested.

 

[DrMike]

That's a lot of rounds, Gil. When are you going to pop them off?

 

[bobnob]

Well loaded up a dozen test loads with the 85g NBT and got this rifle to the range. Load data was as follows:

85g NBT / 43g H4895 / oal 2.55 / CCI LR primer

After a quick sight-in at 50y I had enough rounds for 3 x 3 shot groups. My work up range is 120y. These were the first 3 groups...

The largest group is 1.44" . The smallest, well you can see its 3 into one hole! Ave was about 0.68 moa worked out for 120y.

To say I was pleased with a rifle selling for less than action only value, including 240 fire formed cases would be an understatement.


Chrony speed ave for 9 shots was 3525fps from the 25 inch barrel. This is I believe a hot load. I am going to reduce charge by 1.5g or about 3.5% and see if I can replicate that accuracy at more like 3400fps which should be somewhere under 60k PSI.

Brass was not stressy by appearance, and there was no sticky bolt etc. But I believe the above load at that speed is closer to 70k than 60k so I'll back it off and see how it goes.

 

[Dwh7271]

Nice.
Guess that answers the "will it shoot" question :grin: .
It is a really great cartridge. Amazing what improving the 250 does.
Nice shooting.

 

[6mm Remington]

That is one HOT little number! Nice shooting. Would you be so kind as to get us a few snazzy cartridge photographs to go with the targets?? We need more pictures!

 

[bobnob]

Will try to get you some better ones 6mm....

 

[Dwh7271]

Better watch out David.
You get one of those you may have to change your moniker to 250 AI :grin:

 

[SJB358]

That is a sweet looking little number right there!

 

[6mm Remington]

Better watch out David.
You get one of those you may have to change your moniker to 250 AI :grin:

That thing is down right sexy! :mrgreen:

 

[DrMike]

They are a handsome little cartridge, to be sure.

 

[sask boy]

Not only is it a great little cartridge but it has more going for it than most people give it credit for. I love the old time cartridges made just a little better .

Blessings,
Dan

 

[bobnob]

Thinking I might cut the barrel back to about 22 inches to enhance its portability. 115g NBTs or 117g Interlocks should make a sweet deer and pig package.

I'll come back when I've some more range results.