Getting Ready to Roll Some For The Creedmoor

[Paul Barnard]

I bought some AccuBond 130's and some Hornady 129 SSTs. I am going to crank out my first loads for my new Hawkeye Predator Creedmoor. I have 4350 which is supposed to be a good powder for it. I have some TAC. It works well in the 243 and 308, So it seems like it'd work well in the Creedmoor, but I haven't found any load data for it. It is likely just a touch too fast with the 130 bullets. Varget and RL 19 are on either side of the burn rate chart from 4350. They should be suitable, but online searches aren't turning up much. Are any of you getting good results with these powders? If so what's your recipe?

 

[DrMike]

I haven't worked with my Creedmoor as much as I want (hunting keeps getting in the way of load work). However, here is some data that may prove beneficial for you.

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 130, Nosler AccuBond 56902
Useable Case Capaci: 47.584 grain H2O = 3.090 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62250 psi, or 429 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 112 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                 108.2     51.0     3.31    3086   100.0    62250   11325   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP                          108.9     49.8     3.23    3051    99.3    62250   11378   1.132  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    110.5     49.5     3.21    3030    96.7    62250   11486   1.132  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    110.8     51.7     3.35    3019    95.1    62250   11490   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 110.8     49.1     3.18    3014    98.4    62250   11129   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       108.5     48.9     3.17    3003    96.9    62250   11068   1.128  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  97.8     45.0     2.92    3001   100.0    62250   10062   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     109.8     52.5     3.40    2977    98.7    62250   10589   1.131  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     102.5     46.4     3.01    2966    99.7    62250   10320   1.145  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                 107.1     47.0     3.04    2964    98.2    62250   10565   1.140  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     112.0     48.6     3.15    2960    97.7    58683   11002   1.167  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        96.8     44.9     2.91    2960    99.3    62250   10315   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      96.8     44.9     2.91    2960    99.3    62250   10315   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                 112.0     48.1     3.11    2951   100.0    58470   10099   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                          102.0     44.3     2.87    2947   100.0    62250    9894   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     99.1     44.4     2.88    2947   100.0    62250   10026   1.157  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      101.3     44.4     2.88    2944   100.0    62250    9861   1.168  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                          101.4     45.9     2.98    2936    97.9    62250   10260   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           107.1     45.0     2.91    2929   100.0    62250    9674   1.161  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   107.9     47.9     3.10    2927    96.1    62250   10299   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100                      110.8     48.6     3.15    2921    99.7    62250    9880   1.169  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           112.0     47.7     3.09    2920    95.8    56865   10837   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831                      112.0     47.7     3.09    2918    96.0    61658   10276   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780             105.3     48.7     3.15    2911    97.9    62250    9991   1.145  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                104.8     44.5     2.88    2907   100.0    62250    9089   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        94.0     42.1     2.73    2898   100.0    62250    9530   1.165  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                       94.5     41.9     2.71    2892   100.0    62250    9168   1.175  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165                    112.0     48.6     3.15    2889    98.3    60704    9799   1.162  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                        95.7     42.6     2.76    2874    98.8    62250    9571   1.162  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160                    112.0     47.1     3.05    2871    96.7    61470    9727   1.157  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                       94.1     40.4     2.62    2850   100.0    62250    8586   1.197  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 129, Hornady SST InterLock 26202
Useable Case Capaci: 47.901 grain H2O = 3.110 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62250 psi, or 429 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 112 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                 108.2     51.4     3.33    3100   100.0    62250   11392   1.125  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP                          108.8     50.1     3.25    3064    99.3    62250   11443   1.128  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    110.4     49.8     3.23    3043    96.6    62250   11549   1.128  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    110.7     52.0     3.37    3032    95.1    62250   11550   1.132  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 110.8     49.5     3.20    3028    98.3    62250   11192   1.132  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       108.5     49.2     3.19    3016    96.9    62250   11130   1.124  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  97.7     45.3     2.93    3015   100.0    62250   10124   1.132  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     109.8     52.8     3.42    2991    98.6    62250   10648   1.127  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     102.5     46.7     3.03    2979    99.7    62250   10381   1.141  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                 107.0     47.3     3.06    2977    98.2    62250   10625   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     112.0     48.9     3.17    2975    97.7    58758   11066   1.162  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        96.8     45.2     2.93    2973    99.3    62250   10377   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      96.8     45.2     2.93    2973    99.3    62250   10377   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                 112.0     48.4     3.14    2966   100.0    58548   10162   1.165  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                          102.0     44.5     2.89    2960   100.0    62250    9955   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     99.0     44.7     2.90    2960   100.0    62250   10087   1.153  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      101.3     44.7     2.90    2957   100.0    62250    9923   1.164  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                          101.3     46.2     2.99    2949    97.9    62250   10319   1.138  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           107.0     45.3     2.93    2942   100.0    62250    9735   1.157  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   107.9     48.2     3.12    2940    96.1    62250   10356   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           112.0     48.1     3.11    2934    95.8    56933   10900   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100                      110.7     48.9     3.17    2934    99.7    62250    9939   1.165  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831                      112.0     48.1     3.11    2933    96.0    61727   10335   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780             105.2     49.0     3.17    2924    97.9    62250   10047   1.141  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                104.7     44.7     2.90    2921   100.0    62250    9147   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        94.0     42.4     2.75    2912   100.0    62250    9590   1.160  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                       94.5     42.2     2.73    2906   100.0    62250    9226   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165                    112.0     48.9     3.17    2903    98.3    60785    9858   1.157  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                        95.7     42.9     2.78    2887    98.8    62250    9628   1.158  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160                    112.0     47.4     3.07    2885    96.7    61534    9784   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                       94.1     40.6     2.63    2864   100.0    62250    8641   1.192  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Dwh7271]

Haven't messed with TAC but here's a Quickload for that and some IMR 4350

Cartridge          : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet             : .264, 130, Nosler AccuBond 56902
Useable Case Capaci: 47.592 grain H2O = 3.090 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Ramshot TAC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.25% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-02.5   86    40.59   2808    2276   57777   9176     99.6    1.197  ! Near Maximum !
-02.2   86    40.69   2814    2286   58194   9192     99.6    1.193  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   86    40.80   2820    2296   58614   9208     99.6    1.189  ! Near Maximum !
-01.7   86    40.90   2827    2306   59036   9223     99.7    1.186  ! Near Maximum !
-01.5   87    41.01   2833    2316   59462   9238     99.7    1.182  ! Near Maximum !
-01.2   87    41.11   2839    2327   59891   9253     99.7    1.178  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   87    41.21   2845    2337   60322   9268     99.7    1.174  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7   87    41.32   2851    2347   60757   9283     99.8    1.170  ! Near Maximum !
-00.5   88    41.42   2857    2357   61194   9297     99.8    1.167  ! Near Maximum !
-00.2   88    41.53   2864    2367   61635   9311     99.8    1.163  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   88    41.63   2870    2377   62079   9325     99.8    1.159  ! Near Maximum !
+00.2   88    41.73   2876    2388   62526   9339     99.8    1.156  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.5   88    41.84   2882    2398   62976   9353     99.9    1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7   89    41.94   2888    2408   63429   9366     99.9    1.148  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0   89    42.05   2894    2418   63885   9379     99.9    1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.2   89    42.15   2900    2428   64345   9393     99.9    1.141  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Cartridge          : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet             : .264, 130, Nosler AccuBond 56902
Useable Case Capaci: 47.592 grain H2O = 3.090 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.233% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-02.3  100    43.47   2828    2309   57550   9527     98.3    1.191  ! Near Maximum !
-02.1  100    43.57   2835    2319   57975   9545     98.3    1.187  ! Near Maximum !
-01.9  100    43.68   2841    2330   58403   9562     98.4    1.184  ! Near Maximum !
-01.6  100    43.78   2847    2340   58834   9580     98.5    1.180  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4  101    43.89   2854    2351   59269   9597     98.5    1.176  ! Near Maximum !
-01.2  101    43.99   2860    2361   59707   9614     98.6    1.172  ! Near Maximum !
-00.9  101    44.09   2867    2372   60148   9631     98.6    1.168  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7  101    44.20   2873    2382   60593   9647     98.7    1.164  ! Near Maximum !
-00.5  102    44.30   2879    2393   61041   9663     98.7    1.161  ! Near Maximum !
-00.2  102    44.41   2886    2404   61493   9680     98.8    1.157  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  102    44.51   2892    2414   61948   9696     98.8    1.153  ! Near Maximum !
+00.2  102    44.61   2898    2425   62406   9711     98.9    1.149  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.5  102    44.72   2905    2436   62868   9727     98.9    1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7  103    44.82   2911    2446   63334   9742     99.0    1.142  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9  103    44.93   2917    2457   63803   9758     99.0    1.138  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.2  103    45.03   2924    2468   64276   9773     99.1    1.134  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
[code]

 

[Dwh7271]

Sorry Dr Mike, didn't see until after I posted.

 

[Alderman]

Do you have any pics of the Hawkeye Predator?

 

[Paul Barnard]

I have seen those program results in the past. I have never dealt with compressed loads before other than a very lightly compressed load of 3031 in 45-70. Just how much can you compress? Compressing makes me nervous. What kind of velocity might I get with that RL19 load if I backed it off to 100% and how many grains would that be? Just so I don't put my ignorance on display, tell me how you would go about approaching loading for the Creedmoor by using that data as a guide. I'd back off 5% to start, but I guess what I am asking, is do you look for a load that fills the case? Do you look for a load that gets the most velocity with the least powder?

 

[Paul Barnard]

DrMike I wish I had the hunting problem you do! Thank you both for the data.

Here ya go Alderman.

 

[MAinAR]

I have seen those program results in the past. I have never dealt with compressed loads before other than a very lightly compressed load of 3031 in 45-70. Just how much can you compress? Compressing makes me nervous. What kind of velocity might I get with that RL19 load if I backed it off to 100% and how many grains would that be? Just so I don't put my ignorance on display, tell me how you would go about approaching loading for the Creedmoor by using that data as a guide. I'd back off 5% to start, but I guess what I am asking, is do you look for a load that fills the case? Do you look for a load that gets the most velocity with the least powder?

Note the list is sorted in order of fastest to slowest velocity. I do not use compressed loads at all either, but I go down the list and start with the load nearest the top that gives 90 to 100% case fill, this can change some if as you change OAL but it is a place to start.

i.e when I look down that list my first test powder would probably be RL 17.

 

[DrMike]

On stick powders, case fill will be ~112-114%. There is a lot of space between the sticks. For this reason, when running a comparison, I set the case fill at 112% to give me an idea of what I will encounter. I don't witness compression on most stick powders until 110% case fill. Above that, seat the bullet part way and tap the case with a wooden dowel or a glass rod to settle the powder. Ball powder is much closer to what it says concerning case fill. Consequently, with slow powders, a high case fill percentage often yields the best accuracy.

 

[DrMike]

I have seen those program results in the past. I have never dealt with compressed loads before other than a very lightly compressed load of 3031 in 45-70. Just how much can you compress? Compressing makes me nervous. What kind of velocity might I get with that RL19 load if I backed it off to 100% and how many grains would that be? Just so I don't put my ignorance on display, tell me how you would go about approaching loading for the Creedmoor by using that data as a guide. I'd back off 5% to start, but I guess what I am asking, is do you look for a load that fills the case? Do you look for a load that gets the most velocity with the least powder?

It is always a good idea to back off at least 5% on charge weights when working up a load. I actually start between 7% and 10% when beginning a new series of loads. Any time I change a component or begin with a new lot, I back off at least 5% as a safety issue. It has avoided a lot of trouble for me over the years.

 

[Alderman]

Sometimes the best loads are found on the way up and not at the top, unless you are just looking for speed.

 

[Paul Barnard]

Sometimes the best loads are found on the way up and not at the top, unless you are just looking for speed.

I am hoping to get maximum speed out of this rifle. More for the sake of getting the flattest possible trajectory than anything else.

 

[Dwh7271]

I'm not trying to run you off but there's a forum that's all Creed here
http://www.65creedmoor.com
Those guys are wired in on creedmoor loads.
Their fallback usually seems to be one of the 4350s.

 

[Paul Barnard]

I'm not trying to run you off but there's a forum that's all Creed here
http://www.65creedmoor.com
Those guys are wired in on creedmoor loads.
Their fallback usually seems to be one of the 4350s.

Oh great, another forum for my addiction!

 

[muleman]

I found RL17 to be my Huckleberry. I got about 3000fps with the 130s and about 2800 with the 140s. Low ES and SDs and good temp. insensitivity.

Scott

 

[FOTIS]

RL 17 is your friend

 

[SJB358]

That 6.5 CM is a cool cat. I was ready to get a Predator but found a M70 Featherweight 6.5 Swede before. I love the smaller 6.5's. Seems like 17 looks really good too.

Good luck with your load work. Betting it won't take much with it. My (daughters actually) was doing very well right outta the gate with 120 BTs and 123 Amaxs.

 

[Paul Barnard]

42.5 grains of IMR 4350 driving a Hornady 129gr SST, COAL 2.795 gave me this 3 shot group at 100 yards. By my imprecise measurement it's .35 center to center. Two literally went through the same hole. I think I have a shooter and a load. I need to adjust my scope a bit. Still getting everything set up.

The factory loads gave me sticky extraction. How do you read these empties.

 

[DrMike]

Your spent cartridges look rather normal to me.

 

[muleman]

I see a slight extractor mark in the first picture. I believe Hornady publishes their Creedmoor recipe. You could compare their published velocity to what your getting to see relative pressures.

Scott