good hit w/Accubond, No BLOOD TRAIL

[elkeater2]

Oh, to have the luxury of shot selection time and an anatomical chart :lol: :lol:
On the serious side, DrMike is spot on with the info. On the less serious side, I have found the femoral artery shot makes almost the best blood trail(that, or the lower left ventricle :lol: :lol: ). The best trail is no trail at all, DRT.
EE2

 

[Guest]

Elk eater,
You said it best, the DRT shot is ideal. I usually get those results or pretty close to it with my 35 Whelen. :mrgreen: Still love my 30-06 just the same! :wink:

Don

 

[SJB358]

Same here Don. The 35 cals seem to do an excellent job of planting deer sized animals on the spot. Scotty

 

[Guest]

Scotty,
I knew that would get a reply out of you! :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

I do like me some 35's! Scotty

 

[elkeater2]

Quote: "I do like me some 35's! Scotty"
Scotty,
I think I know why -- we tend to think of bullets in terms of caliber diameter most of the time. But we don't hit game with the diameter, it's the frontal area that makes the impact (and that blood trail hole going in). A .358 bullet has 58% more frontal area than a .284!! The diameter difference is 26%. Now this is all theory, but it might help some keep their mancard if frontal area (bullet frontal area :wink: ) formulas were used in the calculations. :roll: :roll:
Elkeater2

 

[SJB358]

Quote: "I do like me some 35's! Scotty"
Scotty,
I think I know why -- we tend to think of bullets in terms of caliber diameter most of the time. But we don't hit game with the diameter, it's the frontal area that makes the impact (and that blood trail hole going in). A .358 bullet has 58% more frontal area than a .284!! The diameter difference is 26%. Now this is all theory, but it might help some keep their mancard if frontal area (bullet frontal area :wink: ) formulas were used in the calculations. :roll: :roll:
Elkeater2

I like it. It makes sense to me. Bigger bullet with bigger holes! What's not to like. Scotty

 

[Guest]

Just for fun I compared my 30-06 165 BT @ 2800 fps vs the 35 Whelen 225 AB @ 2677 fps, just looking at Bullet Energy based on a normal 50yd shot in the woods. BIG DIFFERENCE!! No wonder we get the DRT reaction. :mrgreen: Still love my 30-06 though.

Don

 

[SJB358]

Don, I won't ever be without a Whelen, a 30-06 on the other hand, someday I may get one, but I think the 300WSM will fill those thoughts! Scotty

 

[Oldtrader3]

Quote: "I do like me some 35's! Scotty"
Scotty,
I think I know why -- we tend to think of bullets in terms of caliber diameter most of the time. But we don't hit game with the diameter, it's the frontal area that makes the impact (and that blood trail hole going in). A .358 bullet has 58% more frontal area than a .284!! The diameter difference is 26%. Now this is all theory, but it might help some keep their mancard if frontal area (bullet frontal area :wink: ) formulas were used in the calculations. :roll: :roll:
Elkeater2

That is certainly one way to look at it!

 

[Guest]

Scotty,
The 300 WSM is an awesome cartridge, hands down. I've had my 30-06 so long it's hard to part with the thing. I have such a history with it, just near to my heart. Shot a lot of Deer with it over the years, then along comes the Whelen. Gotta love it. :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

I am with you. My old man still totes his Browning 30-06 so there is one in the family! If it were mine though, it would become a Whelen!

Can't wait to see what the 300WSM does. Hopes its as good as Mike says! Scotty

 

[DrMike]

The 300 WSM is a new classic. It created its own niche.

 

[35 Whelen]

Elkeatter 2 ........................ you bring up an interesting fact with that frontal area quote.
I sure as heck can "hear" and see a noticable impact difference between a shooting a bear with a 06 with 180gr bullets, or shooting one the same size, with the Whelen and 250s . The actual sound coming back off the bear has a very different report .................. one of major authority............ same way as when I just fire a 6.5X55 at a rock down in front of the lodge that is exactly 400 yds accross the cove and then fire a 7mm Reg Mag................ there is a very NOTICEable impact from the big 7........................ same thing with the 06 it slaps it hard, but the Whelen is a different ball of wax again. Sorta like a splat and a kersplato..............
When I first started up in Alaska I had a Browning in 300 Win Mag and thought I had a lazer to hunt with. I had tough luck with it,especially on bears, and some of it may have been my fault, so I wont launch into that drama on here, and dont want to get anything rolling with guys that love them; and have one. But I bought a .338 and the difference for me was alot .................... the 338 was a different tool for me on larger than 500 lbs stuff . Different sound coming back off the side of stuff, and I felt much more confident with it when messin with stuff that could bite back! Having seen lots of animals shot by sportsmen when I wasnt doing the shooting, it was always interesting to listen to the report coming back off the side of the animal????? they do sound different but when your doing the shooting it is harder to get the full impact of that sometimes???

 

[cloverleaf]

gotta disagree with the "frontal area" theroy, at least in some cases. If it were always true a 12 ga slug would always leave a Puddle. They dont. I'll go alng with Dr Mike and Guy. Shoot an adequete BT and you have good odds of DRT or a decent blood trail. In my very limitedexperience. CL

 

[Oldtrader3]

I like the .30-06. I do not see myself without one in my safe ever even though I do not hunt with mine as much as a few other calibers. Part of that was owning a .270, .280, 7mm mag, .300 H&H. Maybe now that I have passed on the .280 Rem and sold the .300 H&H, the .30-06 will take its place in the middle since I still have the .338's for serious stuff. I just spent some time and money upgrading my USRAC Sporter with a new Gr II stock and new 1-piece bottom metal. The .30-06 has not lost any luster with me since I carried one in the service many years ago.

 

[SJB358]

gotta disagree with the "frontal area" theroy, at least in some cases. If it were always true a 12 ga slug would always leave a Puddle. They dont. I'll go alng with Dr Mike and Guy. Shoot an adequete BT and you have good odds of DRT or a decent blood trail. In my very limitedexperience. CL

On the antelope and deer sized game, most anything with a decent Nosler is going to be a great choice, but I really like the instant sickness bigger animals get when a bigger bullet impacts. Again, it could all be in my head, but after seeing it a few times, I am beginning to believe it more and more. Scotty

 

[1Shot]

If you want a 30 cal bullet that will drop a deer on the spot 99% of the time go to the 125 gr Nosler ballistic tip. Keep it under 3100 fps muzzle velocity and put it into a shoulder. BANG FLOP. That 1% that don't drop on the spot don't go over 3 jumps. I have killed in excess of 30 deer with this bullet and it is the only one that I now use in every 30 cal for deer. You don't need a blood trail with the only place they go is straight down. :mrgreen:

 

[Oldtrader3]

Sorry, but I don't think so. Shooting a game animal with that load flies in the face of all my experience in killing deer with anything. I will stick to the 165 Partition, thanks.

 

[6mm Remington]

I hate to rain on your bigger bullet is better parade, although having bigger might be better, but I can think of two experiences right off the top that caused one to pause. I had to shoot a bear one fall that was getting into garbage cans, campsites, and campers. He actually tore through the side of a pull camper with aluminum siding and went inside and destroyed the camper! Anyway this was a big bear that weighed 225 pounds in the fall when he should have been his heaviest, and yet he was skinny as a rail. No doubt he was not going to make it through winter.

I met up with him iwth his head stuck in a garbage can at a hotsprings up near the Idaho border. He trotted down the side of the lodge building and sat down watching me. I had my .12 ga shotgun and had made sure I had a slug in first followed by OO buckshot. I didn't want a running gun battle with this bear so I made sure my shot of about 30 yards was right on and hit him in the lungs right behind the shoulder. He never flinched, woofed, staggered or anything, and took off up the hill behind the building like a rocket. I followed up with the buckshot and knew that had to have hit him, yet it too never made any kind of an impact on the bear. Last I saw he was streaking out of sight behind some trees as he was running up the hillside! Finally the shots took effect and he came rolling down the hill head over butt several times until he was about even with me, stopped, and raised his head and growled. I put another slug into his shoulders and that finally killed him. He had two complete pass through's with those .12 gauge slugs, and most of the 9 pellets of the buckshot in his side also and yet he sure never showed he had even been hit with anything! :shock: The slug holes looked about an inch in diameter.

The other time that comes to mind right off is when my buddy and I put a sneak on some antelope. He was shooting his 45-70 with if I remember right 400 gr. lead cast bullets his gunsmith had loaded for him. He shot his buck at about 125- 150 yards and hit him right behind the shoulder. The buck took off after showing no effects of a hit at all. He ran about 100 yards before he went down. My buddy Don thought he missed completely, and I was wondering for a few seconds myself.

Shoot one deer with your 270 and it drops right there with a lung shot. Shoot the very next deer that's roughly the same size, distance, bullet, and everything else, and he acts like nothing happened and runs off 150 yards before he dies. I have to grudingly admit though that with larger displacement, them big guns you guys all like, they will more frequently cause the instant stops a bit more often than a smaller cartridge with less diameter and bullet mass.

Now having said that, one of the fastest stops I have ever seen, ever, was when I shot a nice buck antelope broadside at about 50 yards with my 6mm Remington. I had mistakenly (I was probably 14 at the time)chambered a round loaded with 85 gr. Sierra boattail hollowpoints I had loaded up for coyotes. He dropped at the shot as quickly as any I had seen then and now. The legs were just jerked out from under him. The bullet went in the ribs and just came undone and completely destroyed his lungs. Only a few small pieces of the bullet even hit the inside of the rib-cage on the off-side of his body. Completely the wrong bullet for the application, but it sure worked.

David