Hangfire w/ Handloads

[Harv6]

Ive got an 18" bolt action 30-06 that is light, balances nicely, and seems like it'd make a great woods rifle. In reading through different forums to see what I could expect from a short barreled 30-06, I found a lot of people were turned off by the amount of muzzle blast.

So i went on QuickLoad and ran some tests to find that with an 18" barrel and a Speer 165gr BTSP, IMR4227 could get the same ballistics as a topped out 300 Savage in a 24" barrel, but with a little less muzzle blast. Without adjusting anything but barrel length, QL says 40.3 grains of IMR4227 would top me out at 60k psi and 2535 fps. Fill ratio would be 77%. Bump it back 10%-ish for a starting load and it said 35 grains would give me 2300fps and fill ratio of 67%. That still gives me 30-30 power but with a much better BC....wouldnt be bad for the woods.

Also, Ive got about 5 reloading manuals and only one listed IMR4227 w/ a 30-06. And that was the Lyman Cast Bullet book recommending even further reduced loads between 22 and 31 grains using a 195gr cast bullet. I cross checked the numbers from the book with QL to see if they were in the same ballpark and they were.

I went to the range today with just a handful of rounds w/ 35 grains and the 165 BTSP to run them over the chronograph and see where I was. Velocity average was 2375 and accuracy wasnt too bad, but on every round I noticed the slightest hangfire which I've never experienced before. I dont believe it was enough to alter my groups, just barely enough to notice a click/boom instead of a boom. Have any of you run into something similar before? I know I'm not using a popular powder for a 30-06 but I have found a book that uses less powder. Would you add a filler to hold the powder against the primer? Maybe change from a standard primer to a magnum primer? Maybe scrap the idea all together? Or just keep testing increased charges like normal?

 

[M7025-06]

I had issues with hang fires in my 25-06 when using CCI 200-LR primers. Switching to Federal GM-210 primers solved the problem. In my case...I think it was a firing pin / primer deal. Your's might be a low powder charge / primer deal.

I would try a different primer and see what happens.

 

[SJB358]

No clue, but a filler might not hurt. Sounds cool though. Seems like a 170 PT or other 170 30-30 Bullet would be cool with the load if you can get it worked out.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

H4895

 

[SJB358]

H4895

That was sitting on my brain as well.

 

[JD338]

I second H4895.

JD338

 

[jimbires]

hang fires can be dangerous due to detonation . try pointing the rifle bbl straight up , then lower the rifle but keep the bbl upwards some and shoot it .this will keep the powder back against the primer . if it fires without delay your load density , or case fill , is to light . the powder was to far forward to ignite correctly . I tried fillers with mixed results . I think the problem with fillers is the powder can work it's way around them , or mix with them , and you can still get hangfires . I ran into this when I downloaded a 30.06 for a young shooter , I used IMR , SR 4759. I had a heck of a time getting it , then had this problem. knowing what I know now , I would use Hodgdon H4895 reduced recoil youth loads . you can google this and it will explain everything . the 30.06 was the only reduced load project that I had a problem with. it wasn't a big pause hangfire , but it was noticeable .

 

[Guy Miner]

I do not like this at all, and would recommend stopping until the cause is figured out and addressed.

A call to IMR/Hodgdon might be in order.

Guy

 

[sask boy]

Guy, I agree with you no need to take a chance when it comes to shooting & reloading. I would think the powder company would be able to give a explanation & a solution.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Silent Sam]

I agree also. Call and they'll likely tell you to get some 4895. Fillers can work but they introduce a whole 'nuther set of issues. The risky work has already been done... take advantage of it.

 

[HeathSexton]

I run 25grs of sr4759 with 110's from my 30/06's with no filler and no hang fires. I run 13grs of HS6 with 300's in my 45/70 with no fillers or hang fires. My money is on some other issue. A guy reloaded some ammo for me before I started reloading myself and I experienced hang fires. His primers weren't seated deep enough.

How far are you pushing the shoulder back with your die? It could be a head space issue if they are over adjusted.

 

[Bruce Mc]

I tried to post a link to a notice on Hodgdon's wedsite about using H-4895 for reduced loads.

Here's the link:
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Red ... 0Loads.pdf

 

[Harv6]

Thanks for the replies. I called the manufacturer last week and was told that he couldn't recommend a powder charge basically because he didn't have any info on it. That it was too slow. I took that to mean, its no where near optimal velocity, so we've never tested it. The only reason I felt comfortable trying it was because I did find that charge info listed in the Lyman book that was less than what I came up with, and it gave me a PSI that QuickLoad agreed with.

I will be trying another powder though. My QuickLoad is on my laptop which got left at work, so I won't be able to see how 4895 looks till tomorrow. Im basicly trying to see what the best balance is between (A.) Reducing muzzle pressure to less than 11k. and (B.) Having a 165gr. bullet leave the muzzle at 2500 FPS. Preferably faster.

 

[SJB358]

Imr4895 and H4895 are your huckleberry's. That speed is right up their alley with no monkeying around.

 

[BretN]

I worked on a reduced/starting loads in my 308 with 125 gr bullets last summer. An email to Sierra and prompt reply from them indicated that the only powder they would recommend reduced charges was H4895.

I had Imr 4895 and he would only recommend reducing it slightly below the starting load. In the end, I found a load w/in .5 grain of starting that was both very accurate and easy on the shoulder. Might want to contact Sierra and see what they say. They are a great resource.

 

[Harv6]

Well according to the crystal ball, Vihtavuori N133 is as good as it gets for this project. It should get me what I want and then some. 94% fill capacity redlines me at 2600 FPS and 10.5k PSI at the muzzle. So that'll give me a good window to play in. I just got off the phone with the local gun shop and they've got it in stock too.

H4895 in that short of a barrel gives 12.5k PSI at the muzzle for the same velocity. Dropping down to 2500 FPS only takes it to 12k PSI

 

[BretN]

Let us know how it turns out. Having once owned a 18.5" barrel 30-06, I understand the desire for a load with less muzzle blast. I never noticed the muzzle blast hunting. But at public deer sight ins people notice the muzzle blast.

 

[Gunner46]

It's probably because the load density is low. The powder is not always fully backed back against the primer and getting poor ignition. Get some cotton balls and tear off a 'fluff' just large enough to pack inside the case and hold the powder back against the primer. It'll all burn off during ignition. Worth a try.