headspace issues?

[dlove]

I fired these today. I check every piece of brass after every shot when I'm load testing. it gives me something to do while waiting for the barrel to cool. I noticed some light rings around the heads of a few cases. when I got home, I deprimed these and noticed the primers were a bit flattened on even the lightest loads. I grabbed these case heads with a pair of pliars and was able to break them very easily. this is hornady brass after the 3rd firing.




I've never had this happen before. I'm gonna start researching this before I fire anything else in this rifle.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

35 Whelen?

 

[dlove]

yes. probably shoud have mentioned that. =P

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I replied to that other 35 Whelen thread...try what I suggested there, it will probably fix it.

If it don't....your chamber is out of spec.

 

[JD338]

Try neck sizing/parial full length resizing the cases.

I use R-P brass and have never had a problem with it.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Without a doubt, start partial length sizing them. Check out this tool for getting an accurate measurement. It has really saved me alot of money having my dies properly set up. Saves me alot of money in brass. Along with annealing, proper resizing will pay off HUGE!

http://www.larrywillis.com/

 

[DrMike]

Try neck sizing/parial full length resizing the cases.

I use R-P brass and have never had a problem with it.

Good advice, that. +1

 

[Oldtrader3]

I get nervous when I see head separations with folks who are relatively novice handloaders and do not have any headspace gauging equipment to even know what the length of the shoulder headspace datum is on their case with their die setting. Scotty recommended a datum gauge from Willis Engineering, or maybe using a RCBS Universal gauge in order to measure headspace and other attributes on the sized case lk=ike runout (TIR). I am all that for openers to at least know where you are for headspace. The $90 for a gauge block to check headspace is inthe mud if you care about you fingers and eyes with case separations, especially in a hinged lock action.

Something is radically wrong here. For one thing, there may be an issue in reloading cases for that rifle frame more than 2X since you have incipient head separation at three reloadings. For openers, I would have a gunsmith check headspace in the rifle with a headspace go/no go gauge. If headspace in the rifle is within spec, then you have to know what length your sizing die is making with your setup. For that, you can do the time honored resizing until you "feel" the action just close on the sholder. Die length is not a controlled production dimension usually which means that it may vary +/- .005 inches between diesets. If you chamber is already .008 inches too long and you add .005 more to it you will have premature head separations. I you have a battered hinge pin or frame you can have separations.

The other way is to use a gauge block and find out what shoulder length that your action will close on and subtract another .001 from that for ease of feeding. I set up each FL sizing die as an individual like no other. With 18TPI dies each revolution of the die is .056 inches, so I am talking rotating the die 1/28th of a turn to move the shoulder back .002 inches. Basically you need to find out what went wrong and why it happened? Then you can fix it for good!

 

[nvbroncrider]

Darn good post Charlie. These are wise words of expirence here.

 

[dlove]

thanks for the advice. I'll get some of these tools on my bench.

 

[PJGunner]

My thoughts are improper FL die set up, combined with a possible headspace situation. I have three rifles in .35 Whelen and one does have a headspacing problem. What I did was get an extra FL die and set it up so that once fired brass could be sized and headspace correctly. One of these days I'll have to get my gunsmith to confirm the problem and send the gun back to be fixed but until then my temporary fix works just fine.

This is how I set up my sizing die for bottleneck cartridges.

1. Take a once fired factory round and blacken the neck and shoulders with a Magic Marker or Sharpee pen. Some people like to smoke the neck and shoulder, but I find the Magic Marker/Sharpee pen a bit better.

2. Carefully lubricate the case.

3. Loosen the lock ring on the sizing die and back off about two turns from when the die is set to touch the shell holder.

4. Size the case. Note where the marks are on the case and turn the die down about a half a turn and size again. Turn down some more, and resize again. What you are looking for is the marks on the blackening just touching the shoulder.

5. Clean the lube from the case and try it in the rifle. It may chamber just a bit on the snug side. If so, turn the die down ever so slightly, lube and size again. Wipe off the lube and try in the rifle. If it slides in as easily as a factory round, you should be good to go. If not, usually one more very slight adjustment should fix the problem.

6. Tighten the locking ring for the die and you're done. You have just set your sizing die up for a custom fit to your specific rifle, rather than a generic one size fits all guns.

Paul B.

 

[dlove]

if I am understanding what I am reading, one of the ways to measure headspace is to measure the shoulder of a fired case. correct?

 

[Oldtrader3]

Yes, absolutely measure the case shoulder length at the datum point. Measure a virgin case, a fired case and a case about to separate and compare lengths. Compare your measurements to SAAMI headspace spec for the .35 Whelan and set your dies for the proper headspace for your rifle's chamber.

 

[dlove]

its 5.5 1000ths difference betwen fired cases and sized cases. is this enough to cause failure?

 

[Oldtrader3]

THat is too much space. Using a chamber clearance setting of .0015/.0020" would work the brass much less. I think that the action might be contributing to your case separations as well?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Yep...headspace should be no more than .002"

BUT...You can work with excessive headspace in some rifles (again, I'm not very experienced with break actions).

Just neck size the brass and partial full length size about every 3rd time...bumping the shoulder back about .002".

In a bolt action its OK to do that...BUT...the rifle still has excessive headspace...if you sell it, inform the buyer.

 

[dlove]

I didn't really buy this thing to be a shooter. our primative weapon law says single shot, exposed hammer, .358 or larger bullet. If I can find a hunting load that I like. it will only see 15-20 rounds a year. ...but I want to be confident with it out to 200 or so.

if I had just decided to shoot factory ammo in this thing and saved all my development cash, I'd be halfway to a 280 or 7wsm by now.

 

[SJB358]

Yep...headspace should be no more than .002"

I would look for .002" and see that chambers and take it back from there, if needed.