longrangehunter
Handloader
- Jun 19, 2011
- 1,479
- 7
So why is the Hodgdon 280 AI load Data so low vs. Nosler's Data?
2" in barrel length is at most worth 50-70 fps.
2" in barrel length is at most worth 50-70 fps.
Hodgdon 280 AI load Data-Why so LOW vs. Nosler's Data?
- Thread starter longrangehunter
- Start date
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,311
- 5,974
Kevin, the differences don't appear to be barrel length or even primer (the WLR should have higher brisance than does the F210). I'll suggest that Hodgdon techs are operating under different rules. That combined with different lot numbers can account for quite a bit of variance.
Old rule of thumb was that bullet makers would report higher charge weights and velocities than powder manufacturers. Also, I'm not sure that Hodgdon's data is for the wildcat or Nosler's 280AI's. So the playing by different rules that DrMike suggests I think is very real.
To expand on the first sentence; bullet manufacturers can very easily blame the powder manufacture for any issues that occur with their recipe due to the lot variations of the powder.
Powder manufacturers have a much harder time passing blame to the bullet manufacturer, and they seem to have less control on their production than the bullet manufacturers. For example Hodgdon isn't much of a manufacturer but a distributor for several different factories with most production occurring overseas. Additionally, Hodgdon has shifted production between different factories over the years without changing the powder designation; so there are many more cooks in the kitchen and thus chances for things to go wonky with the powder manufacturers.
Having wrote that, I love H4831sc, Varget and a couple other Hodgdon powders. If I need to re-phrase my post, please let me know.
To expand on the first sentence; bullet manufacturers can very easily blame the powder manufacture for any issues that occur with their recipe due to the lot variations of the powder.
Powder manufacturers have a much harder time passing blame to the bullet manufacturer, and they seem to have less control on their production than the bullet manufacturers. For example Hodgdon isn't much of a manufacturer but a distributor for several different factories with most production occurring overseas. Additionally, Hodgdon has shifted production between different factories over the years without changing the powder designation; so there are many more cooks in the kitchen and thus chances for things to go wonky with the powder manufacturers.
Having wrote that, I love H4831sc, Varget and a couple other Hodgdon powders. If I need to re-phrase my post, please let me know.
icallitmaize
Beginner
- Oct 27, 2017
- 45
- 0
I never get the velocity that the powder manufacturers claim. Nope. Never.
I look at the Nosler, Hornady and older Lyman book. Cross referenced with quick load.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I look at the Nosler, Hornady and older Lyman book. Cross referenced with quick load.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gunner46
Handloader
- Jan 12, 2015
- 483
- 4
They are guidelines, period. Never forget that.
I have a 7RM that only shines with a boat load of H4831 & a 160. It's a few grains above Max, in the books, but no high pressure signs.
My 308 is a finicky little B!tch that won't print squat unless it's a full charge of RL15, but spits a 180 out at 'published' minimum velocities.
My 7/08 is spot on to published.
The 338 Fed takes a mid listed charge and throws out Max listed velocities.
Every rifle wants what it wants....it's just a learning process.
I have a 7RM that only shines with a boat load of H4831 & a 160. It's a few grains above Max, in the books, but no high pressure signs.
My 308 is a finicky little B!tch that won't print squat unless it's a full charge of RL15, but spits a 180 out at 'published' minimum velocities.
My 7/08 is spot on to published.
The 338 Fed takes a mid listed charge and throws out Max listed velocities.
Every rifle wants what it wants....it's just a learning process.
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,377
- 700
and you can bet money, if you take any AI chambered rifle and load it up till you see pressure signs, then back off the standard 2 grains, you are still over pressure. why? your running a min spec custom chamber, the body taper is not there so the case doesn't act like a wedge and exert force back against the bolt face. the first pressure sign in my 6.5 Gibbs is, the pocket is gone, thats it, no heavy bolt lift, no sticky extraction, you go to load a case and the prime falls out of it.
RR
RR
- Thread starter
- #9
longrangehunter
Handloader
- Jun 19, 2011
- 1,479
- 7
+1 to that statement!Gunner46":2uyipdoz said:
Same here with every rifle I've owned!Even my 7mm-08 was closer to published load data, and my 308, and both used RL-15 with great success!
I have however tone downed the huge cartridges I own for the next lower node of max though.
I shoot 280AI using Nosler brass and never used Hodgdon data. I may be lot closer to Nosler data since my barrel 27".
I have non spec 280AI and Nosler used to publish data for that and they fire formed Rem 280 case. Hodgdon data is using Nosler 280AI case.
I can say one thing, some of the loads from Nosler when 280AI was wildcat like 140gr, (mid 3100fps),150gr (mid 3000fps) and it's same with 160gr/175gr are faster than Hodgdon 2017 manual.
New Hornady manual has data for 280AI.
I kind of agree with Dr. Mike, different rules
I have non spec 280AI and Nosler used to publish data for that and they fire formed Rem 280 case. Hodgdon data is using Nosler 280AI case.
I can say one thing, some of the loads from Nosler when 280AI was wildcat like 140gr, (mid 3100fps),150gr (mid 3000fps) and it's same with 160gr/175gr are faster than Hodgdon 2017 manual.
New Hornady manual has data for 280AI.
I kind of agree with Dr. Mike, different rules
