Hodgdon Youth Loads

[SJB358]

I had a few minutes this morning and had some time at the reloading bench. Talking about youth rifles and stuff like that made me look over Hodgdon's Youth Data for H4895. I remembered reading years ago about Bob Milek using the lighter weight BT's for loads in his pistols chambered for rifle cartridges. Mr. Milek said when those lighter BT's were slowed down to pistol type speeds, they acted like a normal bullet and gave very impressive results.

I thought, hmmmm, Charlie sent me some 80 grain BT's awhile back and this might be a great excuse to try them out. I pulled the data and used their recommended powder charge, but used the 80 BT instead of a 80 grain Hornady. I plan on shooting them and adjusting for accuracy as needed, then once I have a solid load, I will run the little bullet into the jugs. The speed they rated for the load was 2700. Being as I will be shooting them from a 20" barreled 243, I think they will be a little slower than that. Either way, it should still be a capable load for deer and such, but the main reason is to try and lower recoil as much as I can.

Have any of you all ever done this? I have used Trail Boss type loads, but they are too slow. Wondering how these H4895 loads work out and your results with them.

I am thinking an 80 grain bullet out of a 243 at 2700 or less has to be a complete cream puff, but still acceptable for deer and such out to a 100 yards or so. If the bullet isn't what I am looking for after some testing, I can always try the 85 grain PT as well.

Either way, you all got the juices flowing. Plus, maybe the purple tips on them bullets will make her like them a little more! :lol:

They have some cool loads for the common cartridges as well. If this works, I may try some others and see how they work..

 

[truck driver]

Scotty, when I first got my 257 Roberts I load some light powder charge loads in it and the best most accurate load I came up with was with a 100gr spire point on top of 760Win. powder the velocity was right around 2800fps and killed deer DRT. that load would put five shots into 3/8ths inches at 100yds all day long and it was a cream puff on recoil but then a 257 doesn't have any recoil as come paired to larger cartridges. My hunting buddy at the time called it my cork gun and I said it may be but it kills deer DRT.

 

[FOTIS]

That is how I started Anna.


100 gr with Unique and worked up from there.

Cartridge          : 7 mm-08 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 100, Sierra HP 1895
Useable Case Capaci: 51.495 grain H2O = 3.344 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.700 inch = 68.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant UNIQUE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   31     9.60   1734     668   17344   2442    100.0    1.784
-18.0   32     9.84   1759     687   18035   2495    100.0    1.741
-16.0   33    10.08   1784     706   18731   2548    100.0    1.702
-14.0   34    10.32   1808     725   19432   2601    100.0    1.667
-12.0   35    10.56   1831     744   20140   2654    100.0    1.634
-10.0   35    10.80   1854     763   20855   2707    100.0    1.603
-08.0   36    11.04   1877     782   21577   2760    100.0    1.575
-06.0   37    11.28   1900     801   22306   2813    100.0    1.549
-04.0   38    11.52   1922     820   23042   2866    100.0    1.523
-02.0   38    11.76   1944     839   23785   2918    100.0    1.499
+00.0   39    12.00   1965     858   24536   2971    100.0    1.477
+02.0   40    12.24   1987     877   25295   3023    100.0    1.455
+04.0   41    12.48   2008     895   26061   3075    100.0    1.435
+06.0   42    12.72   2029     914   26834   3128    100.0    1.415
+08.0   42    12.96   2050     933   27615   3180    100.0    1.396
+10.0   43    13.20   2070     951   28405   3231    100.0    1.378

 

[SJB358]

Good info. Might have to look for some Unique Fotis. Never thought of it.

 

[Guy Miner]

I'll have to check my old notes, but yes, I know I used reduced loads for sons one and two. That was with the .308 and the 6mm Rem.

Dad had me jump from .22 rim fire to full throttle .30-06 ammo when I was a kid...

 

[truck driver]

I'll have to check my old notes, but yes, I know I used reduced loads for sons one and two. That was with the .308 and the 6mm Rem.

Dad had me jump from .22 rim fire to full throttle .30-06 ammo when I was a kid...

Heck I went from a .22 rim fire to a 12ga hump back single barrel that killed on one end and crippled on the other. When I was ten he bought me a 30-30 and I had my right jaw tooth pulled 3 days before opening day deer season we took the 30-30 and his M70 30-06 out to check the zero and I shot both ,yes I'm right handed and my jaw was still sore from the tooth extraction but I shot both any way :lol:

 

[Oldtrader3]

Scotty, the 4895 loads should be good to go in the .243, that or IMR 4064, either one. The ballistic tips are super accurate. Those are older ones but should work great at 2700-2800 fps. I have killed several coyotes with that bullet and they are DRT for dogs at 3300 fps! They still don't have much recoil even at 3000 fps.

 

[SJB358]

Scotty, the 4895 loads should be good to go in the .243, that or IMR 4064, either one. The ballistic tips are super accurate. Those are older ones but should work great at 2700-2800 fps. I have killed several coyotes with that bullet and they are DRT for dogs at 3300 fps! They still don't have much recoil even at 3000 fps.

Good info Charlie. I am going to try and run them even slower, around 2600-2800. Should get even better bullet action.

 

[wildgene]

...you might try a QuickLoad using IMR-4198, Scotty, it might not give you the MV's you're looking for, but it was the "traditional" reduced load powder...

 

[1Shot]

I would like to see the results of your bullet test with the 80 BT at these slower speeds. I have a TC Contender barrel in a wildcat 6mm-225 winchester with a 14" barrel. I worked up loads with different powders and Varget gave me the best accuracy and velocity with the 80 gr Sierra Single Shot Pistol bullet which is no longer made. I averaged 2800 fps and shot at least a dozen deer from 30 to 107 yards and never had one exit. The first couple deer were shot broadside tight behind the front shoulder between 80 and 90 yards. One dropped in its tracks and the other ran off about 50 yards. The lungs were mush and I could not find either bullet. I decided to only take neck shots after that. Most shots were as deer were facing me and when they would put their head down I would shoot them between the shoulders where the neck meets the shoulders. This cut the spine and they were DRT. The reason that I did not try heaver bullets is because of the 14" twist in the barrel. I did get some 85 gr Nosler Partitions that I was going to try but I got another barrel 14" 30-30AI and never looked back. It will push a 125 Nosler ballistic tip 2670 fps and is AWESOME on deer at these slower speeds. So far I have killed a dozen of so deer with it out to 120 yards and all have exited even through both shoulders with a quarter size exit hole and most drop in their tracks and have not had one go over 30 yards. I decided to demote the 6mm-225 down to varmints only but got side tracked from working up loads with lighter bullets when I bought a house that took me 16 months to remodel before I could move in. Also with the infusion of coyotes that have moved in a ground hog is an extinct critter where I usually hunt them. I guess I will have to get schooled on coyote calling and do some shooting. Good luck in your test.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I don't think the 95 grain BT will be all that spectacular below 2,600 fps...that is a tough little bullet...I loaded some for an older gentleman I know....for his BLR 243...he hunted with them, killed a deer with them, but did not like the load....it was accurate and mild, but when he saw the dime sized exit hole he wasn't happy about it...he's been using a 243 for a lot of years and that was the first time he ever saw complete penetration...and he didn't like it, lol...he went back to 75 grain bullets.

Its all in the school of thought or what one is used to I guess.

But anyway, I use the 95 grain BT in my 243...it will expand well enough at lower velocity, but it just doesn't "disrupt" as much tissue (destroy as many milk jugs).

If l wanted a really low recoil 243 load...I'd be looking at lighter bullets....but like I said, it depends on your school of thought.

Edit: I loaded the BT's mentioned above to 2,800 fps...

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[SJB358]

Okay, went out and shot some of these loads this morning. Figured I would just see if they were worth pursuing and I think they have all the accuracy needed for their intended purpose.

I just paid my little bag over the roof of the commuter and went after it..



Not exactly ideal, but it worked for what I wanted to try.





Not sure of the speed or how the little bullet will hold up, but I will get those the next time out. Also plan on loading up some of the 85 grain PT's I have and seeing what those do. The good thing is they shoot so close to the POA of the 105 Amax's I won't even have to adjust the scope.

1Shot, that was great info about the 80 grain Sierra. Next time out, the jugs will get carried to the range and we shall see what they do. I will also have the 85 grain PT's as well for some jug testing. Either way, I think I am on to something.

Now, the recoil, I believe it feels about like a 22 LR bumping my shoulder. It is negligible at best. Hopefully, I will be able to steal my daughter for a field test..

 

[jimbires]

Scotty , a few years ago I did reduced recoil loads for a new young shooter with a 243 . I used IMR 4198 with a 87 grain sierra HPBT . I never shot this load . his Dad said it shot plenty good enough for hunting inside of 100 yards . my speer #13 book has a powder range of 17.0 (1796fps) - 19.0 (2005 fps ) grains . I think I was loading the max charge . he never did get a deer with this load , so I can't give details on the results .

I worked with a reduced load for a new young shooter with a 308 . I used a 125 grain ballistic tip with IMR 4198 powder . I forget the charge amount I used . my speer #13 book has a range of 25.0 ( 1969 fps ) - 29.0 ( 2185 fps ) . I did shoot this load . it was very very mild and shot well . the day I took her to the range she shot a fair amount and was still smiling . she never got a shot at a deer , so I can't give details on terminal damage . I played with seating depth to get it to group good . this was my final load .


she was proud as a peacock with her rifle shooting . I made a scope adjustment between groups .


I'm using reduced recoil loads for Denise in her 7-08 . I'm using H4895 with a 120 ballistic tip . I'm using 39.0 grains . if I remember right this load has about the same recoil as a 243 using 100 grain bullets . she has not got a deer yet , so I can't give details .
this load shoots pretty good too .



I like the H4895 loads . I feel they give good enough case fill to keep you out of trouble with hang fires . quickload has the ability to calculate recoil , so keep that in mind while your playing . another thing I've found with young shooters is , the bang is just as bad as the kick . I have timid shooters wear ear plugs , and muffs , to help with the noise .

 

[dubyam]

another thing I've found with young shooters is , the bang is just as bad as the kick . I have timid shooters wear ear plugs , and muffs , to help with the noise .

This is absolute in its truth. And not just for younger shooters. Anyone not used to strong reports and recoil will benefit from layering hearing protection.

 

[SJB358]

Great info Jim. I remembered your youth load experience when I started mine. I have some jug tests to post. It was pretty interesting stuff.

 

[jimbires]

Great info Jim. I remembered your youth load experience when I started mine. I have some jug tests to post. It was pretty interesting stuff.

I'll be interested in seeing it . that's another thing I never tested .

 

[SJB358]

So, I came home, thought about it for a minute and decided to try the 90AB and 85PT with the same load of 28.5 grains of H4895. I wanted to get some ideas of expansion and things like that, so I gathered up 15 water jugs and headed back the range.

First up was the 80 grain BT





I haven't had a chance to weigh them yet, but pretty cool recovery.. The bullet was found in the skin on the outside of the 4th jug.

BUT, here was the shocker. The 90 grain AccuBond... I set up four jugs, thinking it would be enough to hold it. Nope, not even close, blew through 4 jugs, destroying the first two. Well, next time, we put 6 jugs up and captured it.









I was very impressed with it's performance. Not sure of the speed, but I think it probably around 2300-2400FPS. I will get it chronoed soon, but that is a decent QL guesstimate.

I also shot all three on paper again, just to see if any of them varied POI.

90 grain AB



80 grain BT



85 grain PT



All three shot the same. I believe the fliers were more me or Brandon than the actual load, but to me, all three are very acceptable for its intended use.

Well, I wanted to see if they were 200 yard capable. I put Brandon to the task and had him shoot the last two water jugs against the target backstop. Destroyed each jug with a single shot.. I was impressed..

These were the 80 grain BT's.



Anyhow, I think I accomplished the goal. Still have to get Dylann to shoot them, but she is a little scared of the sound, not so much of the recoil. We will work with the 22LR and 22WMR some and hopefully get her to the 243.

 

[DrMike]

Surprisingly good performance on each of the bullets, especially the AB. That is very encouraging.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I told you that those 80 gr BT's were killers. I used to nail coyotes at 400 yards with those. They also shoot groups under an inch at 300 yards with a faster load. Good going. It looks like you have several good options.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

There's no reason why any of those three won't work for her. Nice loading. Great to see Brandon pop those jugs with ease. Looks like he's received some good coaching to augment his talent.