Home defense shotguns

[Ridgerunner665]

With age, comes change...

I'm not that old, 49, and my vision is still correctable to 20/15 in both eyes... but front sights and red dots are... well... more complicated than they used to be.

Realizing that my AR with the CompM4 optic wasn't as quick and accurate as it used to be....I got a Mossberg 590 SPX with the ghost ring rear and fiber optic front... it patterns great with plain old Winchester #1 buckshot hunting loads (silver box) .

It is purely a fighting shotgun, though I pray a fight never comes where I need it... I've done TONS of research (watched a lot of YouTube from trusted sources) on the role of shotguns in home defense.

Many of y'all know I grew up on a small time tobacco farm in northeast Tennessee... an old 16 gauge Victor Special was the home defense, and everything else, shotgun then.... I still have Grandads old 16, first gun I ever fired.

I'll confess, I'm 3 servings into some good cognac, but it seems to me shotguns have been doing a fine job of home defense for a century or so... but there seems to be some who think they're not up to the task (YouTube).

I don't get it...

Properly set up and properly loaded, for use inside a home.... what beats a short stocked, short barreled 12 gauge?


P.S. Don't worry... I'm not gonna become the annoying drunk posting random BS... I'm really not much of a drinker, my job prevents it, and that's not who I am... but I chose to throw it in there in case my post seemed a little... rambly.

 

[Alaska]

M4 Bennelli Shotgun with Leupold Delta Point Pro sight along with Glock 20 handgun and M4 Colt Carbine

 

[JD338]

A home defense shotgun is the best there is.
Everyone knows the sound of a pump shotgun being racked and the business end is devastating at in home ranges.
I've got Mossberg 18.5" riot gun loaded with Federal LE 2 3/4" 00 Buck close by. Hopefully it's never needed for it's intended job.

JD338

 

[Blkram]

I have a Rem 870 Tactical that I use for bear watch duties.
I do have a Leupold Delta Point Pro for it, but have not mounted and used it as yet.
It is the only shotgun (Rem 870) that they will allow us to use for this work here in BC. (Which is a shame as I sold my Benelli M2 Tactical when I wasn't allowed to use it for work. That too, was a great shotgun! I know that there are other military's that use the M4.
Good enough for this work, or the military = good enough for me!
(My brother used one as part of his arsenal while deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan for 5 tours)
Varmints/predators, 4 legged or 2, are going to be impressed when they meet up with a slug fired out of this weapon!
Home, camp, work site. family and friends, and I, are all well defended!

 

[salmonchaser]

Honest to God, I once did a Hollywood rack with an 870 and immediately shut down a bar fight. That it was florescent orange for less than lethal, didn’t seem to matter.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find a more effective home defense system, in particular with old eyes in the dark. In most houses you’d be hard pressed to take a shot over 25 feet and that situation is going to occur in a “fatal funnel”. I bet if you get creative at your range you could recreate such a scenario using target stands. I’d be surprised if you could miss at that distance with a load of buckshot. Buckshot is also very low on the spectrum of wall board penetration effectiveness. A good thing if other friendlies are in your home, slugs on the other hand will over penetrate.

 

[DrMike]

That sound would definitely get the attention of anyone within earshot.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

There's some neat new defense oriented ammo available....Winchester just released a new one in their Defender line.

1.125 ounces (~100 pellets) of copper plated #2 shot at 1,145 fps... on paper that hits a sweet spot.... plenty of penetration for a bad guy, but won't blow through every wall in the house like 00 buck.

I'd like to see a similar load with lead BB shot at about 1,200 fps.

 

[cloverleaf]

One of the few sensible things I ever heard from behind a gun counter, "mam, I understand you want a pistol, but I'm a retired officer, and I can tell you, the "Rack-Rack" of a cheap shot gun will scare almost any bad gut out of your home....". you are fine...and I think the 16ga would do the job too. CL

 

[xphunter]

Good shotgun set-up right is great for the task at hand as is a very shorty AR.
I have both
No racking with either, if they have to go in service.

 

[Bruce Mc]

My home defense shotgun is a Rem 870 youth 20 gauge with a skeet choke tube. It's loaded with 3" #2 shot. It's short and easy to handle in the house. The skeet choke patterns awesome at 20-30 feet.

 

[Alaska]

Honest to God, I once did a Hollywood rack with an 870 and immediately shut down a bar fight. That it was florescent orange for less than lethal, didn’t seem to matter.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find a more effective home defense system, in particular with old eyes in the dark. In most houses you’d be hard pressed to take a shot over 25 feet and that situation is going to occur in a “fatal funnel”. I bet if you get creative at your range you could recreate such a scenario using target stands. I’d be surprised if you could miss at that distance with a load of buckshot. Buckshot is also very low on the spectrum of wall board penetration effectiveness. A good thing if other friendlies are in your home, slugs on the other hand will over penetrate.

Yes you have to be very careful at home ranges your basic 00 pattern is like shooting slugs. Turkey load or coyote load is more appropriate BB for inside the home.

 

[salmonchaser]

We actually used #4; when I started in SWAT i was assigned a short barrel shotgun, primary purpose was blasting hinges on barricaded doors. Always found the buckshot on the floor in the room we went into. Over penetration is always a concern. I would agree, if some one else in the house was shooting I would much rather they had a shotgun and birdshot than a 9mm. Federal ammunition conducted some very informative studies on over penetration, pretty sure that is available to the public. FBI has as well. Biggest head scratcher for me was 9mm HP out penetrated 55 gr. Ball /556. That was 30 years ago I imagine some of the newer offerings in 556/223 might change that.
Regardless the burden is on the shooter

 

[HodgemanAK]

I love a shorty shotgun for home defense. I know the whole AR thing is vogue....but nothing stops fights faster than a 12 gauge, whether they've actually started or not.

Since I now live in an apartment building, I run low brass 6s. They won't penetrate 3 doors down, but at apartment ranges (basically 10') I wouldn't want to get in front of it.

 

[KinleyWater]

While I find no fault with any of the above, I would suggest a few things:

Whatever you choose, the most frail of the house must be able to use it
Whatever you choose, it can't be more complicated than the ability of the least competent in the house
Whatever you choose, it needs to be something you can and will pick up when you need to check things out around the house

That's why, while what has been said is true, I have no issue with with a handgun as a primary. If that's what every member of the house knows how to use, and can and will pick up, that should be your primary. If everyone can use a shotgun, and it's practical for you in your circumstance, go for it.

My feelings.

 

[Alaska]

We actually used #4; when I started in SWAT i was assigned a short barrel shotgun, primary purpose was blasting hinges on barricaded doors. Always found the buckshot on the floor in the room we went into. Over penetration is always a concern. I would agree, if some one else in the house was shooting I would much rather they had a shotgun and birdshot than a 9mm. Federal ammunition conducted some very informative studies on over penetration, pretty sure that is available to the public. FBI has as well. Biggest head scratcher for me was 9mm HP out penetrated 55 gr. Ball /556. That was 30 years ago I imagine some of the newer offerings in 556/223 might change that.
Regardless the burden is on the shooter

The 9mm 124gr Hard Ball military round was famous for penetration in WW2. We had 12 ga special breaching rounds just for door hinges …….we also had door knockers ……small C4 charge with time fuse worked great in Iraq. In Iraq we also had a Russian dump truck with a massive bumper we would use a breaching vehicle if needed. In my house every room has a gun so no matter where I am in the house I have access to a firearm. Yes BB size in M4 Bennelli for home defense.

 

[salmonchaser]

You all did a lot more of that then I did, thats for sure. We didn’t have a Russian truck, we had ‘savage” he was by far the strongest man I ever knew. 6’04 and about 280. When he hit the door with a ram, it came open, usually flew across the room and hit somebody on the inside. I asked the chief for some Det Cord after going to an explosive breaching class. He just shook his head and said no.”
Glad you made it home.

 

[Alaska]

You all did a lot more of that then I did, thats for sure. We didn’t have a Russian truck, we had ‘savage” he was by far the strongest man I ever knew. 6’04 and about 280. When he hit the door with a ram, it came open, usually flew across the room and hit somebody on the inside. I asked the chief for some Det Cord after going to an explosive breaching class. He just shook his head and said no.”
Glad you made it home.

I love det cord ! When I cleared my land of spruce after retirement I told my wife I wish I had a spool of det cord I could have wrapped the 50 trees and fall them all in seconds at the same time with det cord.
OIF2 was Wild Wild West looking and hunting down the deck of cards in Bagdad and Iraq. We had Navy seal snipers come in to assist us on IED planters on MSR Audi and Mercedes. We even had gun boats in the Euphrates River that were later sold to Texas Border Patrol . Talking about a nasty river of waste and dead bodies !
My outlet after retirement was to kill a bull moose yearly ……..and did so with grace ! Now getting old !

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Found some shells to try...Remington Express XLR, 1.25 ounces of #2 lead shot (108 pellets), at an advertised 1,330 fps... it is a 2.75 inch shell, not even a magnum 2.75", but close (3.75 dram eq.)

Gonna rig up a test with some old hunting clothes....see if this stuff will do its thing through heavy clothes.

Will post results, probably Monday afternoon.... would that be OK in bullet tests, or better in here?

Buy Express Extra Long Range 12 Gauge Ammo 2 | Upland | Remington

Shopping for the Express Extra Long Range - Learn more about the latest Express Extra Long Range and other hunting or shooting gear at Remington.

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[KinleyWater]

I'd be happy to see the results in either location.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Measured some shot charges...

The #2 birdshot rounds are labeled as 1 1/4 ounce loads... actual weight is 1 5/16 oz...105 pellets... there is some variation in the pellet size, most are .155", some are .143" (that is closer to #3 shot).

The #1 buckshot rounds, Winchester Super X, have 16 pellets in them... that also weighs 1 5/16 oz... those pellets measure .285".