I acquired 30 caliber Hornady GMX bullets in 150 grain and 165 grain and loaded them up for my 30-06. True to their advertising, these bullets used the same recipe that their leaded equivalent lead bullets used. I am a heavy user of Nosler bullets but have been very disappointed on their e-tip position of using two grains below published max regardless of caliber or bullet weight. I think Nosler dropped the ball on their e-tips.
Hornady GMX Pellets
- Thread starter Val
- Start date
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,138
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I have to disagree with on the E-Tips. I use the 180 E-Tips in my 30-06 and I am still getting velocities on par with leaded bullet velocities. My 5 shot average velocity is 2750fps. Here's my recipe:
Brass: Winchester (virgin)
Brass trim: 2.48"
Powder: H4350 @ 53.5gns
Bullet: 180 E-Tip
COL: 3.39" (measured tip to base)
Primer: GM210M
Here's the link to my orignal post about this load:
http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9169&highlight=180et
Brass: Winchester (virgin)
Brass trim: 2.48"
Powder: H4350 @ 53.5gns
Bullet: 180 E-Tip
COL: 3.39" (measured tip to base)
Primer: GM210M
Here's the link to my orignal post about this load:
http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9169&highlight=180et
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,138
- 117
I forgot to mention that the 150ET is my main bullet in my 7mmRUM. My 5 shot average velocity is 3200fps. Here's the link to my post:
http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9638&highlight=150et
http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9638&highlight=150et
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,938
- 7,842
The E-Tip has a long bearing surface which can spike pressures in your rifle. The determining factor will be Your rifle's bore diameter. Since all rifles vary, Nosler has to take the cautious approach.
The same would also apply to Barnes bullets as well.
If you carefully work up your loads, you should be on par with the lead core bullets. YMMV
JD338
The same would also apply to Barnes bullets as well.
If you carefully work up your loads, you should be on par with the lead core bullets. YMMV
JD338
I will respectfully disagree as well. The 180gr .30 caliber E-Tip shoots very similar velocities as all the other 180gr bullets I've shot. It takes a little work to dial in the accuracy, other than that, they perform very well. I shot a very large wild pig some months back running away at around 85 yards. I got over 2 feet of penetration out of both bullets I shot into that hog and the recovered bullets were picture perfect.
I've shot a few coyotes with the 90gr 6mm E-Tip with very good results as well. Very nice exit wounds on all of them. I shot one coyote in the face at about 40 yards and the wound indicated good expansion. The others shot had silver dollar sized exits on broadside shots. So my worry about expansion has gone away.
My buddy has taken a few coyotes with the 7mm E-Tip out of his 7mm-08 and had similar results.
Niether of us has had any velocity problems with any of the E-Tips we have shot and with about 2 grains less powder than the other bullets. I don't think saving powder (even a small amount) is something to complain about.
The E-Tip would not be my first choice (I live in Condor country) as I love my Ballistic Tips and Accubonds, but the E-Tips have served me well so far.
I've shot a few coyotes with the 90gr 6mm E-Tip with very good results as well. Very nice exit wounds on all of them. I shot one coyote in the face at about 40 yards and the wound indicated good expansion. The others shot had silver dollar sized exits on broadside shots. So my worry about expansion has gone away.
My buddy has taken a few coyotes with the 7mm E-Tip out of his 7mm-08 and had similar results.
Niether of us has had any velocity problems with any of the E-Tips we have shot and with about 2 grains less powder than the other bullets. I don't think saving powder (even a small amount) is something to complain about.
The E-Tip would not be my first choice (I live in Condor country) as I love my Ballistic Tips and Accubonds, but the E-Tips have served me well so far.
I use Barnes TSX bullets. Here is clip on the reasons for the grooves on TSX
"An exclusive feature of the Triple-Shock X Bullet is multiple, precisely engineered rings cut into the bullet shank. These grooved rings act as relief valves as bullet metal flows under pressure while traveling down the bore. Instead of flowing from the front to the base of the bullet, the copper material expands into the grooves. This results in reduced pressures and less copper fouling. Reduced pressures mean the bullet can be safely loaded to higher velocities."
Here is Hornady clip for the grooves on GMX bullet
"GMX bullets are constructed of the same gilding metal used to make ultra-consistent Hornady bullet jackets. Gilding metal doesn’t foul like “sticky” solid copper, and strategically located grooves in the bearing surface of the bullet reduce pressure. These additions make the GMX easy to load using standard published data for comparable Hornady SST® bullets."
I've only shot the E-Tip 30cal 150gr bullet in a 30-06. 58gr/IMR-4350 @ 3018fps published was 59gr/IMR-4350 @ 3000fps and 59gr/H-4350 @ 3075fps published was 62gr @ 3038fps. I was going to get some 180gr E-Tips but decided to stay with 180gr Partitions for the 30-06.
"An exclusive feature of the Triple-Shock X Bullet is multiple, precisely engineered rings cut into the bullet shank. These grooved rings act as relief valves as bullet metal flows under pressure while traveling down the bore. Instead of flowing from the front to the base of the bullet, the copper material expands into the grooves. This results in reduced pressures and less copper fouling. Reduced pressures mean the bullet can be safely loaded to higher velocities."
Here is Hornady clip for the grooves on GMX bullet
"GMX bullets are constructed of the same gilding metal used to make ultra-consistent Hornady bullet jackets. Gilding metal doesn’t foul like “sticky” solid copper, and strategically located grooves in the bearing surface of the bullet reduce pressure. These additions make the GMX easy to load using standard published data for comparable Hornady SST® bullets."
I've only shot the E-Tip 30cal 150gr bullet in a 30-06. 58gr/IMR-4350 @ 3018fps published was 59gr/IMR-4350 @ 3000fps and 59gr/H-4350 @ 3075fps published was 62gr @ 3038fps. I was going to get some 180gr E-Tips but decided to stay with 180gr Partitions for the 30-06.
Idaho_Elk_Huntr
Beginner
- Feb 5, 2009
- 131
- 0
I have been coating bullets in hBN and playing around with them. I have exceeded Nosler E-Tip top load data recommendation by a little bit. Now I need to work on accuracy.
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,138
- 117
If I remember correctly, Nosler uses the same guilding alloy to make E-Tips as it does the jackets for their leaded bullets. Nosler just doesn't put any grooves in the E-tips.
- Thread starter
- #9
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not commenting on the performance of the e-tip. My issue is with lack of detailed reload data for the e-tip. Prior to learning that Nosler states that the max powder weight for the e-tip is 2 grains less than their leaded equivalents (very scientific) I read the Hunting Times article that stated that the load recipe used by the equivalent AccuBond bullet is what should be used for the e-tip. For the case of the 150 grain AccuBond with IMR 4350 this is 59 grains which indeed is the recipe that works for my 30-06 with Accubonds, Partitions, Ballistic Tips, Hornady SSTs and Hornady Interbonds.
When working up the load for the e-tip I dropped down about three grains (to 56 grains) and worked back up. Lo and behold the groups at 57 grains were unsatifactory and the tightest groups were achieved with 59 grains of IMR 4350. I chronographed the load and it was 2994 fps. By the way no signs of over pressure were evident in the cases but a very slight cratering of the primers. Then I found out that Nosler says the max load should not exceed 57 grains for my application.
The GMX loads worked so well that I see no need to go through load development again with the e-tips trying different powders to find one that works well with two grains under max for the leaded equivalents. The e-tips are pretty expensive for playing around with different powders.
By the way, I have had excellent results with the Barnes TSX bullets both the untipped and tipped in my .243, .257 Roberts and my 25-06. I live in the Republik of Kakifornistan and have had to develop nonleaded loads.
When working up the load for the e-tip I dropped down about three grains (to 56 grains) and worked back up. Lo and behold the groups at 57 grains were unsatifactory and the tightest groups were achieved with 59 grains of IMR 4350. I chronographed the load and it was 2994 fps. By the way no signs of over pressure were evident in the cases but a very slight cratering of the primers. Then I found out that Nosler says the max load should not exceed 57 grains for my application.
The GMX loads worked so well that I see no need to go through load development again with the e-tips trying different powders to find one that works well with two grains under max for the leaded equivalents. The e-tips are pretty expensive for playing around with different powders.
By the way, I have had excellent results with the Barnes TSX bullets both the untipped and tipped in my .243, .257 Roberts and my 25-06. I live in the Republik of Kakifornistan and have had to develop nonleaded loads.
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,138
- 117
Val, I'm glad the GMXs worked out for you. One thing to remember is all load data published is referred to as a guide for a reason. All of the powder and bullet makers that publish data err on the side of caution. Your rifle maybe able to handle a higher powder charge than listed, then again it may not, you the loader accept all risk either way. For instance, my 375RUM has a listed max of 96gn of IMR4350 with the 260AB, I fired up to 97gn last weekend and no signs of pressure. Also, I wouldn't take anyting print in the magazines to heart they only care about one thing, subscriptions. About Nosler and E-Tip load data, give 'em a break, they just published the #6 manual, like last year. I'm sure they will have E-Tip data in #7. Until then the instructions in the boxes of E-Tips is more than sufficient for handloaders. BTW, Barnes doesn't even have all of the load data out for all of their bullets, specifically, the 26gn VG for the 204Ruger. Only two powders listed online and nothing in the book.
Oh and the 30-06 - 180ET load I mentioned above, Nosler doesn't list that powder in their manual for the 06 and 180gn bullets. I used data from Hodgdon's website and made a guesstimate on where the middle would be, I chose to stop at 54gns, hence the term load developement.
Oh and the 30-06 - 180ET load I mentioned above, Nosler doesn't list that powder in their manual for the 06 and 180gn bullets. I used data from Hodgdon's website and made a guesstimate on where the middle would be, I chose to stop at 54gns, hence the term load developement.
+1 Richardracer1
My buddy has a .270 Win. that shoots at .270 Weatherby velocities with slightly warm loads. All guns are different....I have a couple of guns that show signs of pressure below what most guides suggest.
I understand the frustration as I am in California as well. I just think the frustration is mis-directed. I didn't have much problem getting the E-Tip dialed in. A little more effort than most bullets I've loaded, but no big deal.
My buddy has a .270 Win. that shoots at .270 Weatherby velocities with slightly warm loads. All guns are different....I have a couple of guns that show signs of pressure below what most guides suggest.
I understand the frustration as I am in California as well. I just think the frustration is mis-directed. I didn't have much problem getting the E-Tip dialed in. A little more effort than most bullets I've loaded, but no big deal.
G
Guest
Guest
Colin":e3jlje0r said:
I'd be awful surprised if he's not pushing the envelope of safety there. The 270Wby is a full 200-300fps faster than the 270Win. That's a lot of extra velocity. There is, guaranteed, extra pressure pushing that bullet out at those velocities. If you told me he had a 24" barreled gun that ran 3150-3250 with 130gr bullets, I'd buy it. If you're saying he's getting 3400-3500fps with a 130gr from a 270Win, I'm telling you he's going to blow his gun eventually, and I'd hate to be next to him at the range when it happens. Safety first! Remember that velocity is the single most direct indicator of pressure, and there is no free lunch.
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
Dad shoots 130gr BT's at 3350 from his 26" tube. Same load only shoot about 3100 out of my 22" barrel.
G
Guest
Guest
Out of a 26" barrel, I might buy 3350. Even that's 100-150fps below what my 270Wby will run from the same length barrel. There's just no way you can get 3500fps from a 130gr 270Win load without a veeeery long barrel.
After all,
Ya' canna' change the laws o' physics, Cap'n!
After all,
Ya' canna' change the laws o' physics, Cap'n!
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
Sure you can get 3500....just might need some Extra large primers if you wanted to load that brass again. 
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
3350 is close to Weatherby factory stats, of course I'm sure dubyam does a little better then that.
G
Guest
Guest
Antelope_Sniper":m6rvf4d9 said:
Just for the sake of clarity (and because I'm a data geek, bigtime!) Weatherby factory ammo runs between 3375-3400, but I get 3450-3500fps. Please bear in mind that is using published data, so I'm not doing anything that's patently unsafe. In fact, I've shot that same load, a 130gr over a max charge of IMR7828ssc, in the heat of July and gotten a three shot average velocity of 3608fps, with zero pressure signs. No sticky bolt lift, no cratered primers, no enlarged primer pockets. Would I do that very many times? Probably not. I like to shoot this load in cooler weather, for the most part. But it is a screamer. And this is a factory gun - a US-made Mark V synthetic with a 26" barrel - so it's nothing unattainable by a so called average rifle. For reference, in more moderate temperatures (30-70deg range) I get 3450-3500fps with this load, which is right in line with the published velocities.
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