How can I optimize my .375 JDJ?

[taylorce1]

I've got an Encore in .375 JDJ with a 26" barrel. I'm not having any luck finding data for this cartridge, everything I find is based off of a 14" Contender pistol. The Contender loads run about 44000 CUP for pressure and my Encore can handle quite a bit more than that.

I started with H4895 because about everything I can find this is the go to powder for this cartridge. I've got an older version of Accu Load but I'm not able to plug in powders I want to try, and can charge the pressure a bit. This just gives me a recommended list of powders to try of similar burn rates.

What I'm trying to find are there any powders out there that can work with a case capacity of 68.6 grains max that can get me to 2400 fps with a 260-270 grain bullet that will not exceed 60,000 PSI? From the research I've done on the Encore frame it can handle up to .300 Win Mag pressures which can operate as high as 65,000 psi and has a larger rim diameter. That is how I came up with 60,000 psi for my number trying to err on the side of caution.

Right now my standard load of 46 grains H4895, Fed 210 primer are pushing the 270 grain Speer bullet right at 2250 fps. That has me at a load density of 95% and estimated pressure of 53,000 psi. So am I maximizing my case potential with this load or am I asking too much to try and squeeze an extra 150+ fps out of it?

 

[JD338]

Keep in mind that the TC Encore may be up to those pressure levels but I am not so sure about the 444 case.
I would go directly to the source. Contact JD Jones at SSK. JD designed the 375 JDJ and would know better than anyone else what the upper limits are.

A friend of mine, who is friends with JD Jones has taken quite a few animals with his 375 JDJ. He shot a bull elk a few years back with his Contender 375 JDJ loaded with a Hornady 270 gr Sp. He hit the bull head on in the chest and recovered the bullet in the hind quarter. With that kind of performance, one has to ask if the extra horse power is really needed.

JD338

 

[taylorce1]

JD, totally understand the brass issue. I can't find the exact pressures the brass can handle but according to Mike Bellm I should be able to run above 50,000 psi without problems. How far can I push it I don't know for sure, that is why I went to 60,000 and wanting to work my way up.

I bought my dies from SSK industries when I got may barrel. I sent a email to them asking about load data for the Encore, and all they offered was the data I got with the dies. The only data you get with the dies is the Contender data, probably for liability reasons. I'm sure they don't want someone screwing up and running an Encore only load in the Contender.

I have no dobuts that a 270 grain bullet going 2200 fps will not get the job done, I'd just like to extend my PBR a little further with this cartrdge. I've thought about seeing if I can punch it out to a .375 brown/sisk. However I'd like to save that kind of money in gunsmithing and custom dies.

 

[z11]

I agree with 338. A couple of elk and some deer have dropped dead right there from my 375 JDJ. If you want more power you need more gun. The 375 JDJ in a Contender has taken almost everything on the planet including bull elephant. How much more do you need?

As I have only a few posts here it is understood I know nothing about anything. I do know my JDJs. Go with JD's data. It is about the round he designed. If you have questions call them and talk to Tammy. She has forgotten more about JDJ stuff than most of us will ever know.

I now use a 6.5 JDJ. When I grow up I will get a 338.

 

[Guy Miner]

z11 - seems to me that you're dishing out some great advice.

I was about to recommend a phone call to SSK industries: http://www.sskindustries.com/index.htm

Can't think of any better source of info for the cartridge!

 

[taylorce1]

z11 - seems to me that you're dishing out some great advice.

I was about to recommend a phone call to SSK industries: http://www.sskindustries.com/index.htm

Can't think of any better source of info for the cartridge!

I've called and talked with SSK industries and have sent them emails. The only load data they offer/recommend is what is sent out with their dies, and again it is probably due to liability reason. All this info is based off of the Contender pistol with the exception of about 4 loads which show the velocities from the carbine. I'm only able to best the pistol data by 300 fps and 100 fps in the carbine, the data uses a Hornady 270 SP bullet which is shorter than the one I've been using and probably why my estimated pressure is at 53,000 psi by my Accu-Load software.

46 grains of H4895 isn't a compressed load but if I work up to 48 grains (max load in the pistol) I'll be running a compressed load with my longer bullet. Since none of the data offered by SSK shows a compressed load, I haven't tried any, but I do have some loads worked up from 46 to 47.5 grains which are compressed. If I don't run into any pressure problems running that I'll go up to the full 48 grains next time or as soon as I buy more of the Speer bullets.

My next test bullets will be the 235 grain Speer bullet and the 260 grain AccuBond. Before I move on to the Accubonds I'd like to figure out is a slower burning powder could be used in this case and keep the pressure in check. I'd like to figure out if powders like W760, H414, H/I 4350, H/I 4831, or RL 19 would be worthwhile or if I don't have enough capacity to use them effectively with my 26” barrel.

 

[JD338]

I agree with 338. A couple of elk and some deer have dropped dead right there from my 375 JDJ. If you want more power you need more gun. The 375 JDJ in a Contender has taken almost everything on the planet including bull elephant. How much more do you need?

As I have only a few posts here it is understood I know nothing about anything. I do know my JDJs. Go with JD's data. It is about the round he designed. If you have questions call them and talk to Tammy. She has forgotten more about JDJ stuff than most of us will ever know.

I now use a 6.5 JDJ. When I grow up I will get a 338.

z11

Welcome to the forum, glad to have you here.
I think you are spot on.

I am pretty sure 60,000 psi far exceeds the 444 Marlin brass. Pushing the 375 JDJ might get you in trouble. It will never be a 375 H&H so you will have to go with a bigger case.

JD338

 

[Guy Miner]

Taylorce1 - if they shoot well from your rifle, both the 235 gr Speer and the 260 gr AccuBond are great performers. Looking forward to seeing what you have to say about them. Both did well in my infamous milk-jug tests, and the 260 did a fine job on a black bear last fall, from the Ruger #1 in .375 H&H, with a mild load.

Regards, Guy

 

[taylorce1]

Taylorce1 - if they shoot well from your rifle, both the 235 gr Speer and the 260 gr AccuBond are great performers. Looking forward to seeing what you have to say about them. Both did well in my infamous milk-jug tests, and the 260 did a fine job on a black bear last fall, from the Ruger #1 in .375 H&H, with a mild load.

Regards, Guy

Guy,

I'm headed back to SE AK for a black bear hunt in May and want to use this rifle, just simply because it is light and I can break it down to fly with so I don't have to pay a whole lot of extra luggage fees. I did get some new data from JD Jones this morning, shows 2500 fps with a 270 Hornady round nose using RL 15 and Varget. I do know that I'll never be able to get to the max loads with either of those powders and the AccuBond or Speer without some serious powder compression since I've been seating the BT portion below the base of the neck.

JD,

As far as reaching 60,000 PSI I doubt I'll ever do it. Max I can get is 58,000 psi according to my software and the usable powders it gives me. I'm over 102% load density at those powder charges and I'm trying to stay around 90-95%. I'm hoping to approach lower end .375 Hawk/Scovill loads not .375 H&H levels.

Last time I went, the bear I shot was at 200 yards, and my buddies was just beyond that. However on some of the tidal flats shots on a bear can exceed 300 yards. A little faster and better BC bullets will pad the odds in my favor, that is all I'm trying to do. If I can get the Nosler or Speer to 2400 fps that will give me an extra 25-30 yards of MPBR depending on if I go with a 3-4" target radius.

 

[taylorce1]

Still can't find an exact pressure limit on the brass but here is what Mr. Jones has to say:

----- Original Message -----

.375 JDJ Encore Data?

I'm looking for Encore specific data for reloading this cartridge. When I orderd my dies from your company I got some load data but it is all for the Contender pistol platform. I'm using a 26" factory T/C heavy taper barrel on my Encore frame. Just hoping there might be some specific load data out there for this cartridge on an Encore.

Thanks,

Chad


--- On Mon, 1/24/11, sskindustries <info@sskindustries.com> wrote:

Barrel length doesn't matter---the same powders --loads are used in any length.- just the velocity changes.
add from 6--10% to pistol velocities depending on load and length, See attached for some factory data. JD

----- Original Message -----

JD,

Thanks so much for the quick response. Right now I'm getting 2200 fps with a Speer 270 grain BTSP and 46 grains of H4895 with a Fed 210 primer out of the 26" factory T/C barrel. According to my old version of Accu-Load I'm running about 53,000 psi, I'm not showing any pressure signs, but don't know if I should push up to the full 48 grains as I'll be running a compressed load. I'm sure I can't get anywhere near max load with Varget or RL 15 with the Speer bullet.

I know you use the 270 grain Hornady which is a flat based and shorter bullet than I'm using. I'm using the Speer bullet as they are easy for me to get locally at the local stores along with the Nosler 260 grain Accubonds. Both of these bullets are longer and I've been seating the BT portion of the bullet below the base of the neck. I just want to make sure I'm not going to be running into dangerous pressure levels for either the Encore frame or the brass.

My barrel just wasn't showing good accuracy with the 270 grain Speer bullets until I hit the 46 grains of powder. When I hit 46 grains of powder my groups droped from 1.5-2" to sub 1" groups at 100 yards. I'm headed to Alaska in May for a black bear hunt and just want to use the most accurate load I can build as long as it is safe to do so.

Thanks Again,

Chad

--- On Mon, 1/24/11, sskindustries <info@sskindustries.com> wrote:

Shouldn't be a problem. I usually seat the 270 Hornady with the base of the bullet to the base of the neck. Pay no attention to the cannalure. The data is for Contenders---the Encore will handle a lot more--so will the brass. Let me know how everything works out. JD

----- Original Message -----

JD,

Last question on this at least for today. What kind of pressure can the .444 Marlin R-P (what I'm using) brass take? I've only been able to find that I can go above 50,000 psi from doing internet searches.

Thanks Again,

Chad

--- On Mon, 1/24/11, sskindustries <info@sskindustries.com> wrote:

I really don't know and Hornady or Remington I would assume is different. The usual sign of over pressured brass is the primer pocket expanding or case sticking in the chamber. In an Encore it is probably case sticking. I would definitely stay away for or at least be very wary of anything coming up from internet unless from a reputable manufacturer. JD

 

[onesonek]

I wouldn't think too much on what the pressure specs are on the brass. Use JD's loads for the Contender as starting loads for the Encore. Work your way up until it starts to get sticky, then back off 1 grain to conserve brass life some.
Slightly compressed charge won't hurt nothing, so long as it isn't so compressed you start changing the case dimension. Most of the time I prefer any of my loads over 95% LD if not 100% or slightly compressed,,,generally I find less deviation and better accuracy when doing so.
I would continue up with the R-15 untill the charge is slightly compress or the Encore shows pressure. If you reach compressed loads, and no pressure signs your good to go. If velocity aint what you expect at that point, then you have to try another powder. I would give VV n140 or n540 a try also.

I know what your after with the PBR, but sometimes when working with what you got and what you want is borderline, 30-40 extra yds isn't worth stressing a firearm to the max. When in that situation, I expand my PBR say from 4-5" to 6-7" then use a 6 oclock hold at short range and 12 oclock at longer. Hold dead on everything in between. That's the safest way to gain 50 yds PBR.

Dave

 

[SJB358]

Chad, show us some pictures of that beast! That 375JDJ has to be a monster of a killing cartridge! Scotty

 

[taylorce1]

Chad, show us some pictures of that beast! That 375JDJ has to be a monster of a killing cartridge! Scotty

Scotty, here you go.

L-R .375 Ruger 270 grain Speer, .375 JDJ 270 grain Speer, .375 JDJ 235 grain Speer, and .375 Ruger 300 grain Nosler Partition.

 

[SJB358]

Chad, that looks like one AWESOME round buddy! Man, if there were some proper flat points available, that would be one cool lever gun round! Thanks for showing me the picture. Scotty

 

[taylorce1]

Chad, that looks like one AWESOME round buddy! Man, if there were some proper flat points available, that would be one cool lever gun round! Thanks for showing me the picture. Scotty

There are some good FP out there for this cartridge, but I don't know if the cartridge isn't too long for most levers with the heavy flat points and round nose bullets. You have the 200 and 220 grain FP from Sierra and Hornady Barnes still shows a 255 grain Original bullet for the 375 Winchester, which should do fine in this cartridge as well. Hornady has a good 300 grain RN Interlock. Then if you want to step into the custom realm you have Northfork, Woodliegh, and Hawk you can have about anything you would want.

 

[onesonek]

I been looking for a used Encore .375 JDJ,,,,,,If you get tired of it, let me know!!!!

 

[SJB358]

Sounds like some serious HP in a lever gun. I am sure it has been done before. I forgot about the 375 Win bullets. Scotty

 

[taylorce1]

Looks like I might reach my goals using BLC(2) as long as the accuracy is there. To quote JD338 "Speed sells but Accuracy kills." :wink: Anyway I was able to get some assistance from a fellow reloader using QL to figure some things out. I only use Accu-Load because it was given to me, after this I might invest in QL especially if I'm going to keep playing around with non-standard cartridges.

Here is what we were able to come up with:

Cartridge : .375 JDJ
Bullet : .375, 235, Speer SSP 2471
Useable Case Capaci: 56.750 grain H2O = 3.685 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.910 inch = 73.91 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 91 52.20 2358 2901 35657 5309 92.9 1.450
-09.0 92 52.78 2385 2968 36889 5374 93.5 1.431
-08.0 93 53.36 2412 3035 38165 5436 93.9 1.410
-07.0 94 53.94 2439 3103 39499 5498 94.4 1.388
-06.0 95 54.52 2466 3172 40882 5557 94.9 1.368
-05.0 97 55.10 2493 3242 42319 5615 95.3 1.347
-04.0 98 55.68 2520 3313 43815 5671 95.7 1.327 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 99 56.26 2547 3384 45372 5724 96.2 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 100 56.84 2574 3457 46988 5776 96.5 1.288 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 101 57.42 2601 3530 48681 5826 96.9 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 58.00 2628 3603 50439 5874 97.2 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 103 58.58 2655 3678 52273 5919 97.6 1.232 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 104 59.16 2682 3753 54185 5962 97.9 1.214 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 105 59.74 2709 3829 56181 6003 98.2 1.196 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 60.32 2736 3906 58266 6041 98.4 1.179 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 107 60.90 2763 3984 60441 6077 98.7 1.161 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


Cartridge : .375 JDJ
Bullet : .375, 250, Sierra SPBT 2950
Useable Case Capaci: 59.491 grain H2O = 3.863 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.110 inch = 78.99 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 87 52.20 2292 2917 34572 5443 94.2 1.509
-09.0 88 52.78 2318 2982 35721 5507 94.6 1.489
-08.0 89 53.36 2343 3048 36907 5569 95.1 1.470
-07.0 90 53.94 2368 3114 38138 5630 95.5 1.449
-06.0 91 54.52 2394 3181 39415 5689 95.9 1.428
-05.0 92 55.10 2419 3248 40738 5746 96.3 1.407
-04.0 93 55.68 2444 3317 42111 5801 96.7 1.387
-03.0 94 56.26 2470 3385 43535 5855 97.0 1.368
-02.0 95 56.84 2495 3455 45013 5907 97.3 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 96 57.42 2520 3525 46549 5956 97.7 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 58.00 2545 3596 48144 6004 97.9 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 98 58.58 2570 3668 49796 6049 98.2 1.292 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 99 59.16 2596 3740 51522 6092 98.5 1.273 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 100 59.74 2621 3812 53308 6133 98.7 1.255 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 60.32 2646 3886 55157 6171 98.9 1.238 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 102 60.90 2671 3960 57072 6208 99.1 1.221 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 58.00 2668 3951 58822 5854 100.0 1.214 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 58.00 2378 3140 38540 5824 91.5 1.436

You need to watch the AccuBond. It is much longer than many of the other 260-270gr bullets. At the same OAL it will eat up case capacity.

Cartridge : .375 JDJ
Bullet : .375, 260, Nosler AccuBond 54413
Useable Case Capaci: 55.683 grain H2O = 3.615 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.190 inch = 81.03 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 88 49.50 2219 2842 34607 5136 94.1 1.543
-09.0 89 50.05 2243 2905 35761 5196 94.5 1.523
-08.0 90 50.60 2268 2969 36958 5255 95.0 1.503
-07.0 91 51.15 2292 3034 38199 5312 95.4 1.481
-06.0 92 51.70 2317 3099 39486 5368 95.8 1.459
-05.0 93 52.25 2341 3165 40822 5421 96.2 1.438
-04.0 94 52.80 2366 3232 42208 5474 96.6 1.418
-03.0 95 53.35 2391 3299 43648 5524 96.9 1.398
-02.0 96 53.90 2415 3367 45139 5572 97.3 1.378 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 97 54.45 2440 3436 46696 5619 97.6 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 55.00 2464 3505 48310 5664 97.9 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 99 55.55 2489 3575 49988 5706 98.2 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 100 56.10 2513 3646 51734 5747 98.4 1.301 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 101 56.65 2537 3717 53551 5785 98.7 1.283 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 57.20 2562 3789 55441 5821 98.9 1.265 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 103 57.75 2586 3862 57410 5855 99.1 1.247 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 55.00 2583 3853 59163 5521 100.0 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 55.00 2302 3060 38710 5496 91.4 1.467

Looking at the 260 data your 270 load looks lite. We will see.

Bullet : .375, 270, Speer BTSP 2472
Useable Case Capaci: 58.775 grain H2O = 3.816 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.190 inch = 81.03 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 85 50.40 2198 2897 34294 5330 95.2 1.572
-09.0 86 50.96 2222 2960 35408 5391 95.6 1.552
-08.0 87 51.52 2246 3024 36561 5449 96.0 1.533
-07.0 88 52.08 2269 3088 37756 5507 96.4 1.513
-06.0 89 52.64 2293 3153 38991 5562 96.7 1.491
-05.0 90 53.20 2317 3218 40273 5616 97.1 1.470
-04.0 91 53.76 2340 3284 41597 5668 97.4 1.450
-03.0 92 54.32 2364 3350 42976 5718 97.7 1.429
-02.0 93 54.88 2388 3417 44401 5766 98.0 1.409 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 94 55.44 2411 3485 45879 5812 98.3 1.390 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 56.00 2435 3553 47407 5856 98.5 1.371 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 96 56.56 2458 3622 48983 5899 98.7 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 97 57.12 2481 3691 50612 5939 98.9 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 98 57.68 2505 3761 52296 5977 99.1 1.315 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 99 58.24 2528 3832 54041 6012 99.3 1.297 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 99 58.80 2551 3903 55850 6046 99.5 1.280 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 95 56.00 2546 3887 57692 5672 100.0 1.272 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 95 56.00 2280 3117 37917 5724 92.6 1.501

 

[EME00130]

Hi taylorce1,

Did you ever get to try with the BLC(2)?
Just looking at building a rifle in this caliber and looking at load options. Just hoping to get imput on a good placeto start.

Thanks
Rob