I need a new barrel! ( New update)

[ScreaminEagle]

As some of you may recall, I had posted in the reloading section about the possibility of my barrel being shot out. I'm talking about my Remington (From the good years) 700 in 257 Roberts. The gun always shot very good, but in the last 4 years its accuracy has diminished.

I've tried everything. Got some JB bore paste with Kroil, mounted new optics, even tried to come up with a new load. The best she will do is a paper plate sized group at 100 yards!

So, it's time for a new barrel. I've never had any of my rifles rebarreled so I don't have a prefered supplier yet.

My questions and conditions are these:
1. Must be sent to a supplier that will mount and headspace the barrel for me, as I have none of the required tooling.

2. Crome-moly or Stainless???

3. Want larger than standard OD, but not as heavy as Rem Varmint. I'm thinking light varmint or #5 contour. Thoughts?

4. I want to stay with the Roberts, but am looking at the Ackley Improved version. Any real gains or just the cool factor?

5. Cut or button rifling?

6. What twist should I get for a Nosler 100gr BT?

7. Am I missing anything?

I'm leaning towards Hart or Shilen. Any tips, comments, experiences would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Steve

 

[SJB358]

SE, hear are my thoughts on it. I kinda like the idea of cut rifling, Joel and others rave about them, and from what I have seen, they really shoot. Not saying the others are chopped liver, but I like cut rifling, as it seems to be less stressful to the steel while it is being cut.. Again, I am under educated, but it makes sense in my limited machinist skills.

You can just order a barrel from any of the barrel makers, OR, places like Krieger or Bartlein, or PacNor would all chamber your rifle for you. If you have a decent local smith, that is sometimes a good option.

#5 seems really heavy for a 257 Roberts, not huge, but a #4 contour is pretty beefy. I think you need to decide if you want a lighter rifle for carrying, or just a short walk rifle. Different makers contours do vary as well.

I dig the Improved 257, as I think it'll reduce case stretch and require less trimming, but speed wise, I am not sure how much extra you would get PSI's loaded the same.

I would think a 1-10 twist would handle the 100 BT just fine.

Anyhow, I am sure you'll get a 100 different answers, those are just my thoughts on it, I hate heavy rifles, so keeping a rifle trim and packable is more important to me. I tend to leave heavy rifles in the safe.


I threw up some numbers, both cases loaded with RL19

Cartridge : .257 Roberts Imp.
Bullet : .257, 100, Nosler BalTip 25100
Useable Case Capaci: 55.676 grain H2O = 3.615 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.775 inch = 70.49 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-19

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 94 48.50 3015 2019 44962 11049 93.6 1.224
-09.0 96 49.04 3050 2065 46502 11185 94.1 1.205
-08.0 97 49.58 3084 2113 48099 11319 94.7 1.187
-07.0 98 50.12 3119 2160 49751 11448 95.2 1.168
-06.0 99 50.66 3154 2209 51465 11574 95.6 1.151
-05.0 100 51.20 3188 2257 53241 11695 96.1 1.133
-04.0 101 51.73 3223 2307 55084 11813 96.5 1.115
-03.0 102 52.27 3258 2356 56994 11925 96.9 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 103 52.81 3292 2407 58975 12034 97.3 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 104 53.35 3327 2458 61033 12137 97.6 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 53.89 3361 2509 63164 12236 98.0 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 106 54.43 3396 2561 65365 12330 98.3 1.033 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 107 54.97 3430 2613 67643 12418 98.6 1.018 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 108 55.51 3465 2666 70005 12501 98.8 1.002 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 109 56.05 3499 2719 72456 12579 99.1 0.987 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 110 56.58 3534 2773 75001 12651 99.3 0.972 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 53.89 3520 2752 75505 12055 100.0 0.972 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 53.89 3149 2202 51446 11786 91.7 1.148




Cartridge : .257 Roberts +P+ (not SAAMI)
Bullet : .257, 100, Nosler BalTip 25100
Useable Case Capaci: 48.669 grain H2O = 3.160 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.775 inch = 70.49 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-19

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 97 43.61 2884 1847 42121 9830 90.7 1.247
-09.0 98 44.09 2918 1891 43574 9964 91.4 1.227
-08.0 99 44.57 2953 1936 45081 10095 92.0 1.208
-07.0 100 45.06 2987 1981 46643 10223 92.5 1.189
-06.0 102 45.54 3021 2027 48265 10349 93.1 1.171
-05.0 103 46.03 3056 2073 49948 10471 93.6 1.152
-04.0 104 46.51 3090 2121 51696 10590 94.2 1.134
-03.0 105 47.00 3125 2168 53511 10705 94.7 1.117
-02.0 106 47.48 3159 2216 55397 10816 95.2 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 107 47.97 3194 2265 57357 10924 95.6 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 108 48.45 3229 2315 59393 11028 96.1 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 109 48.93 3263 2365 61513 11127 96.5 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 110 49.42 3298 2415 63717 11223 96.9 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 111 49.90 3333 2466 66013 11313 97.3 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 112 50.39 3368 2518 68402 11400 97.6 1.001 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 113 50.87 3402 2570 70892 11481 97.9 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 108 48.45 3399 2565 71566 11061 99.6 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 108 48.45 3009 2011 48514 10437 88.5 1.167

 

[gerry]

Lots of great barrels these days, I'm sure you will get lots of good suggestions. I like stainless whenever possible but there really isn't anything wrong at all with chrome moly especially with todays weather proof coatings. I would want something like a # 4 Pac Nor contour, a heavy sporter. It will be plenty for a 257 Roberts. I would avoid doing a 257 AI, the Roberts is much cooler and is maybe 100 fps slower at most which you will never notice in the field, for more fps I would step up the the 25-06. A 1 in 9 twist would be able to handle the full range of 25 cal bullets and give you a bit more stability when Nosler brings out a 257 ABLR

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Thanks Scotty. I think the #4 contour would be better for me. I don't want a bench gun just something a little heavier that the stock barrel. Pac-nor does look like a good company as well.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Gerry I did think about doing the 25-06 or 257 Weatherby, but it was my dad's rifle so i have to stick with the original chambering. Plus the Roberts is a pretty cool round.

 

[gerry]

I have a Benchmark that is a copy of a # 4 Pac Nor on my 35 Whelen, I wanted it to fit into an existing stock, I could measure it and a # 3 if you want later today. I think Dan (Saskboy) just got a #4 for his 280 AI

 

[velvetant]

I'm running a #3 contour lilja barrel on my 6.5 Creedmoor and I think it about perfect for a walking around rifle.
It's a little bit bigger then the Winchester Featherweight contour it replaced but not by much.
Call any of the barrel manufactures you are thinking of using and tell what you have and would like to go one contour heavier.

 

[DrMike]

1. Must be sent to a supplier that will mount and headspace the barrel for me, as I have none of the required tooling.

2. Crome-moly or Stainless???

3. Want larger than standard OD, but not as heavy as Rem Varmint. I'm thinking light varmint or #5 contour. Thoughts?

4. I want to stay with the Roberts, but am looking at the Ackley Improved version. Any real gains or just the cool factor?

5. Cut or button rifling?

6. What twist should I get for a Nosler 100gr BT?

7. Am I missing anything?

I'm leaning towards Hart or Shilen. Any tips, comments, experiences would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I have no doubt you will find a gunsmith or supplier that can do the work acceptably.

I have used both chromoly and stainless. Each can be very nice.

Almost any barrel maker will turn a barrel to the factory contour.

Either method of rifling has proponents that are well qualified and well respected. I have rifles that represent either method; each shoots very well.

A ten twist should serve you very well.

 

[JD338]

Another vote for a 257 AI.
Very cool round.

JD338

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Thanks guys for all the answers so far.

Jim, I'm really looking at the 257 Roberts Improved. it does look very cool. It would be nice to build a clone of your 280, cause let's face it, that is one sweet looking rifle!

 

[sask boy]

I have a Hart Barrel on my 35 Whelen in a heavy sporter and I just received my PacNor #4 SS match for my 280AI. Once I get my final 2 components I will give a report on the PacNor.
The Hart is a very good barrel very accurate and easy to clean.
I have been told that PacNor is every bit as good or even better than the Hart.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[onesonek]

First, I would go with a Pac-Nor Super Match stnls, as Stnls standands heat better for resisting throat erosion.
Second, I would stay with a standard 10" twist. In my 250 Sav. AI, never had any issue's, and actually the 100 gr. NBT's were most accurate of any tried. However, I went with the slightly less accurate (not by much) 110 gr. AB for hunting. I also went with a 3 groove, but done again, I would go polygonal. I have a 6mm, 6.5mm, and .308 in poly's and they all shoot excellent. .250 MOA and better hasn't been uncommon for me with them. That, and clean eceptionally easy, when they need it.

 

[wildgene]

...just a word of caution, going up to something like a #5 will change the handling characteristics of the rifle quite a bit. Moving the center of gravity forward an inch or an inch & a half might not seem like much, but it sure makes a difference in how a rifle, especially one you're used to carries. My .25 WSSM has a 24"/ 0.75" barrel, & it's pretty muzzle heavy. I use a Safari Sling for packing it around for varmint hunting...

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Thanks for all the tips guys! Keep them coming. You can never be too informed on such a matter.
I'm really leaning towards a Pac-nor SS super match, 257 roberts AI, #4 contour, 1-10 twist.

Anyone else have experience with polygonal rifling?

 

[257 Ackley]

There are a lot of quality barrels out there, you just need to decide whether you want cut or button rifling. I prefer cut, but have a Shilen that is button rifled and shoots very well in a light weight 7mm-08.
Gene is spot on with the shift in balance once you go to #5 or bigger on a barrel contour you may want to carry in the field. I put a #5 26 inch barrel on a 6.5 WSM that is very muzzle heavy. Go with a #4 and have it fluted or a #3 contour for a great carry weight.

10 twist will work fine for 100 grain bullets. Most guys that use the "Bob" for deer hunting were using 117-120 grain bullets with a standard twist until some of lighter bonded bullets came along.

There isn't a huge velocity gain going to the AI version, but it does save on trimming and the round does have a distinct cool look to it. :roll:

 

[Guy Miner]

I seem to almost always go with a stainless Krieger, cut-rifled barrel. Every one has been a real serious shooting barrel. That's not a lot of barrels, just a few, but they have all been accurate and have all had a good, long, accurate life. Mine were all .308's in either the Palma contour or the Remington Varmint contour.

There was one Hart though... it was pretty incredible.

Enjoy - it's fun - but get going QUICK - getting a rifle re-barreled can take a looooooong time if the barrel isn't sitting around waiting to be purchased already. If you have to have it made up, it can take MONTHS...

Guy

 

[ScreaminEagle]

I seem to almost always go with a stainless Krieger, cut-rifled barrel. Every one has been a real serious shooting barrel. That's not a lot of barrels, just a few, but they have all been accurate and have all had a good, long, accurate life. Mine were all .308's in either the Palma contour or the Remington Varmint contour.

There was one Hart though... it was pretty incredible.

Enjoy - it's fun - but get going QUICK - getting a rifle re-barreled can take a looooooong time if the barrel isn't sitting around waiting to be purchased already. If you have to have it made up, it can take MONTHS...

Guy

Thanks Guy. Luckily I have plenty of other rifles to shoot so I can wait if I really have to. Plus, I just bought a collector grade M1 so I gotta save up funds first.

 

[nvbroncrider]

4 months or so from Pac-Nor. I wouldn't go heavier than a 4 if your going to carry it a bunch. My 338 with a #4 with a mag fill Micky weights 8.5 9 out the door. Look on Saskboy's post I put a picture up of what my 280AI does with its Pac-Nor tube when I do my part.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

4 months or so from Pac-Nor. I wouldn't go heavier than a 4 if your going to carry it a bunch. My 338 with a #4 with a mag fill Micky weights 8.5 9 out the door. Look on Saskboy's post I put a picture up of what my 280AI does with its Pac-Nor tube when I do my part.

Ok thanks

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Ok I have another question for you guys. What number of grooves should I get? They seem to have a few different options. Any real benefit between a 3 groove and standard 5 groove barrel?

I've turned away from the polygonal rifling idea as I've read to many bad reviews on them. I know some people love them, but I'm paranoid i guess!