Interesting Data on the Hornady Light Mag Ammo!

[35 Whelen]

8) Just thought I would post some findings I have with a couple of boxes of the older Hornady Light Magnum ammo that was givin to me about 10 years ago! I used it on a few animal back when I first got the ammo and it seamed to work good, nothing great or noticeable, it just worked. It did NOT group as well as my old loadings that I had used for years but the advertised velocitys seamed impressive! I stored the box of shells in my aluminum truck box[on my pickup] in a shelf and they sit there for years; in 100 degree temps in the summer; and probably 20 below in the winter. The shells were 150gr in 30/06 caliber. After about 6-7 years I shot a deer with one from that box and it didnt seam to kill like it should have and I just chocked it up to poor bullet placement or the angle or something. The next year I shot another nice buck with it and lost the deer after a half a day of tracking it out over a ridge into the next drainage. The following year I shot two deer with the ammo and had problems with both kills but other hunters commented to me that the report from the gun "sounded funny" I by now was suspicious that something weird was going on with the shells and replaced them with a box of Remington Corelokts and the next animal went down imediately and have never had a problem since. In the meantime another friend gave my a half box of 180gr Light Magnums and told me to give him some Moosemeat if I shot one with the ammo. Last nite I decided to pull all the bullets from the original box of 150 and the half box of 180s. I appeartly had fired only eight of the original cartridges as I had 12 left. So I had a total of 22 cartridges of which 12 were from the late 90s or early 2000s and the other were newer and in a different style of box so I have no idea how old those actually are but here is my results ......................................
Upon pulling the bullets I found out some very interesting things ............ first of all the cartridges all had the powder so deformed and hooked togeather that NONE of the powder would come out of the cases!!!! I had to take and pick and break it up so that it would flow out of the cases???? After you stired it up it would break away from the other grains and actually blend back to a loose blend and I was able to weigh the charges [which appeared to be the exact same powder but I am not sure of that either] the charges for the 150gr bullets were 67grs and in the 180grs was 62grs ????? I see the new High Performance powder advertised now and wonder if that is the same stuff???? Anyway I am sure that the 180gr bullet were never subjected to the huge temp swings the 150s were in the back of my truck and were not as old as they have been stored inside my shop for 6-7 years but the powders looked identical in both loads and I have no doubt that neither loadings would have gone off correctly ............................ very strange to say the least. I tumbled this unfired brass and will load them with our standard load of 52grs of 4064 and a SST 165gr and not be messing around with Lt Magnums again. I have no idea if they have addressed this powder issue or not but if you have a box of these and they are getting older ................ for gosh sakes DONT trust them on an expensive hunt????? :shock:

 

[nvbroncrider]

Just another reason to roll your own dope and shoot on a regular basis.

 

[257 Ackley]

Thanks Earle...I have often wondered what some of the older stuff I have loaded that is still sitting around would shoot like. I have a pet load for my 7mm-08 with Swift A-frames that was loaded about 15 years ago that haven't been shot due to going to larger caliber rifles for larger game (elk) that I used to hunt with the little 7mm. I should pull those bullets or at least shoot a couple of them to see if they still give me good results.

 

[RiverRider]

I'd suggest one of two different things---or maybe both---have happened: one is the temperature extremes the ammo had been exposed to over the years. The other is that the ammunition has been subjected to something akin to being tumbled over a long period of time.

I can't think of anytime tumbling loaded ammo has been endorsed. In fact I know a benchrester who's convinced that carrying powder in his pickup for a couple of weeks altered its performance, and the guy is very credible. Maybe the constant vibration over the years caused the coatings of the powder to rub off the kernels, and maybe that helped to facilitate the kernels clumping together as you described. I have seen powder that was subjected to less-than-desirable storage conditions for years on end (without any kind of vibration taking place) become a single rock-hard mass, even in the original container.

I suppose there are storage conditions that are too harsh for ammunition. On the other hand we often hear about 50-year old ammunition that was properly stored and still performs just fine.

 

[JD338]

I think temperature extreams, humidity, condensation, etc all take its toll on ammunition.
I have always hunted with "fresh" ammo.

JD338

 

[1Shot]

As for the powder clumped together in the light mag ammo it comes that way fresh out of the factory. They do some sort of voodoo to get that much powder into the case and it is compressed very tight. Try to put one of those charges you pulled back into the case. You can't do it. I agree the temp changes and haling it around in the truck all that time took it's toll thus your sub-par effect. If ammo is kept dry and not exposed to extreme temp changes it will last and work normal for 100 years or more.

 

[35R]

I think temperature extreams, humidity, condensation, etc all take its toll on ammunition.

JD338

X2

I still have a couple of boxes of Federal Premium .30-06 ammo from a batch I've purchased back in 1998. And, they'll group as tight as they did back then. However, They have always been stored in a cool dry place all this time.

 

[RiverRider]

As for the powder clumped together in the light mag ammo it comes that way fresh out of the factory. They do some sort of voodoo to get that much powder into the case and it is compressed very tight. Try to put one of those charges you pulled back into the case. You can't do it. I agree the temp changes and haling it around in the truck all that time took it's toll thus your sub-par effect. If ammo is kept dry and not exposed to extreme temp changes it will last and work normal for 100 years or more.

I'd like to know more about this voodoo!

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Ammo will keep for decades if properly stored.

Ammo that has been sitting in an aluminum box where internal temps would fry eggs is ammo I wouldn't care to shoot at the range, let alone at game.

 

[35 Whelen]

Well to respond to the voodoo part :shock: , I had also heard this many times, about the loads being impossible to restore because you cannot get the powder back into the cases..................... however I did not find that to be the case, with these :? . I did however scratch my head that the charges were that heavy when I weighed them . One thing that should be noted is that only the 150gr loadings were ever subjected to the aluminum box on the truck: The 180gr loadings were always stored in the shop, and kept at a constant temperture.............. so the conditions they were kept in were very very different. The powder looked to me like it had been wet down inside the cases and each individual gain was actually hooked togeather or bonded to each other however you want to say it.
I also have shot lots of old ammo that was 50-75 years old and it fired most of the time; and ditto on pulling old ammo , the powder poured out freely; I never saw powder bonded togeather like this?? So I have to conclude it is perculiar to this "perticular powder" they are using in this line of ammo .
Anyway just thought I would mention it, incase someone lost the buck of a lifetime, to this problem.
I would rather shoot at any buck, with a box of Remington Corelokts from the Walmart than ever trust this ammunition again......................... and I feel that is the most milktoast stuff available.
What ever difference there may or may not be, behond our old loading of 52gr of 4064, and a SST 165gr, I will gladly live without, to not have to mess around with that powder ever again :wink: ! Me and Hornady high performance ammo have parted company for ever. 8) I do appreaciate all the comments.

 

[PJGunner]

35 Whelen. I find your report very interesting. When Hornady came out with their Light Magnum ammo and federal with their High Energy stuff, I bought a box of each in the 180 gr. 30-06 loading. I tried a few shots at the range but accuracy from my rifle was poor at best so I set them aside. A few years later I broke them down and weighed the powder charges, the Hornady holding 66.6 gr. and the Federal 66.3 gr. the charges noticably similar. The powder BTW was a ball type min the rounds that I had and were loose enough that they just poured out like any other. Velocity was close to advertised but 2 to 3" groups just didn't cut it for me. Test rifle was an accurate Remington M700 BDL.
Paul B.

 

[35 Whelen]

Paul B,
The powder that was in these looked alot like some of that Vitivouri powder I had at one time???? But it was so "glued togeather" that it was impossible to do anything with it until I stired it for a while with an icepick, after I would break it down it would then flow out of the cases freely but the 180gr bullet that I pulled from these cases had exactly 62grs by weight of powder but it didnt look like it resting in the pan so it must be some dense granules . The bullets appeared to be standard Interlock BT Hornadays in the 180gr loadings but the 150gr looked like a standard PSP with a flat base so not really sure what they were. The powder in both looked exactly the same to me but I have no idea if it really was or not. It doesnt matter now as the cases are holding some fresh 4064 with SSTs in them so I am pretty sure they are good to go at this point . I too got about 2 1/2" groups with it from a gun that usually shoots a 1 1/4" groups with our handloads, so I was NOT that impressed with it in my rifle either. The animals I did shoot with it never seam to act like they were being hit with anything different than a normal factory loading so maybe the bullets in those early loadings wasnt anything to get real excited about either I am not sure . [I never fired any of the 180gr stuff as I wont use that weight for Whitetails anymore ]
The whole purpose of posting this was NOT to get anyone that has a bunch of Lt Mag ammo upset or have them defend it if they have had good luck with it. The reason was because I am of the belief if it has been around for a while I dont think it performs anything like it does when it is fresh??? I see they have changed it two or three times so I am sure Hornady knows all about all this but would obviously not want to disclose any of this ....................... I was mearly hoping to let others know that we had most certainly had problems with this ammo and wont be using it again and I have NO axes to grind with Hornady as I use their bullets all the time.

 

[PJGunner]

35 Whelen. I understand exactly where you're coming from. To be honest, I don't remember what the bullet from the federal load was other than it was 10 gr. The 180 gr. from the Hornady load was IIRC a spitzer flat base but it may have been a boat tail bullet. I was more interested in the powder which bore a very close resemblance to Winchester's WMR, a powder I like very much in the .270 Win. and .300 Win. mag. It's showing promise in my .280 Rem. as well but in the 30-06 it's a back biting dog. :shock: Kind of hard where to figure it sit as it's been all over the place on several burning rate charts. It's been decent in th .243 and .257 Bob as well but again, I'm just starting out trying it in those cartridges. "Big W" dropped it over 10 years ago and I got a very good supply though a friend in California. He found it in LA and told me about it and I told him to pick up three jugs (cans?) for me and I'd pay him for it. We met up on the AZ side of the line at Quartzite, had lunch on me and I paid him for the powder. Seems he shoots the 06 almost exclusively and he bought a can of the stuff as well and is having fits trying to make it work. I told him to get a .270 and his troubles would be over. :lol: Supposedly, the stuff will work with 200 and 220 gr. bullets in the 30-06 but I reserve those bullets for the .300 Win. Mag.
Funny thing, one of my hunting buddies just loves those Hornady Light mags. he says they shoot tiny groups in his 06 and smack elk just fine. Guess it like those first X bullets. Some guns sho them well and others not so well. Quien sabe? :?:
Paul B.

 

[35 Whelen]

I hear ya.................. I have shot the same 06 since 1992[Model 70 ATR] and had a Styr Manlicher Professional; previous to that and both of these guns shot the 165gr bullet tighter; and faster; with 4064 than any other powder I can find..................... others either come close to matching the velocity with way more preasure; or to group as well the velocity is way down; so after years of trying to better what I already had; I am still right back where I started! 52grs of 4064 ......................... I think I will just stop trying! I got a steller deal in some Nosler Ammo last fall with the 165 gr AccuBond [like $15 a box] and because I dont want to use that bullet on Whitetails I pulled the bullets on a couple of boxes; and replaced them with Hornady SST's . When I chronographed them they were exactly 100fps slower than the old 4064 load, was but they did shoot nearly as well, group wise. I am guessing that AccuBond is going to be a heck of an Elk or Moose load, and I still have 8 boxes of it with the AccuBond bullets :wink: .