Is it a LOP (length of pull) or eye relief problem?

[Heavy Barrel]

Just short of a year ago, I purchased my first true hunting rifle, everything else I own is bull barreled. It's a Savage 116 FHSS chambered for .270 Win. In which I mounted a Leupold 4.5-14x50 scope, model# 54660 which was produced prior to Leupold introducing the M1 knobs for their LEO scopes, and prior to the introduction of the Mark 4 series.

When sighting it in, the first round was four inches low and one inch to the right at 100yds. The sixth, seventh, and eighth rounds were half an inch directly above the "X" in which a quarter could cover. The range master told me, "at that point the rifle would be lethal out to 250yds."

In Nebraska, there are two seasons in which a firearm can be use for deer. The second week of November, and the first fifteen days of January, referred to as late season.

During the November firearm season I didn't have this problem. It was during the late season, that I noticed this visible black haze the full circumference of the scope eyepiece.

Everything I've read so far, points to an eye relief problem. And since the scope is as far back as possible. I've been looking into shortening the LOP. Though everything I've read, regarding the correct LOP tells me the LOP is too short.

Is it possible for a scope to be an ill-match for a rifle? I've been looking at different scopes. Though I'm hesitant about making the purchase, only to encounter the same problem.

 

[Elkman]

A couple of things come to my mind and I am sure that others here will also have an idea. My first is clothing, because of temperature differences you may have had a lot more clothing on during your second hunt. Could you be mounting the rifle differently as you become more familiar with it? How are you checking length of pull? Unless you have really short arms, factory rifles are pretty standard. Last but not least rather than buy another scope, get a rail and new rings, that should solve the problem
Hope this helps.

 

[DrMike]

It sure sounds as if you are struggling with eye relief. This can, of course, be related to stock fit, including LOP. The simplest fix is to adjust the scope if possible. Perhaps a different ring/base system would address this problem, allowing some movement of the scope toward your eye. For sure, a rail mount would address this issue. Elkman is correct in noting clothing can have an impact on acquiring a proper sight picture. Adjust the scope with the clothing you would wear during hunting season.

 

[OU812]

A couple of things I might add to what Elkman said. Did you see this black haze when you sighted the rifle in or was it only seen at a later time, thicker warmer cloths? Do you see the haze at the lowest power setting or only at higher power?

When setting up your scope, variable scope, always set the scope on it's highest power to set the eye relief distance for a clear sight picture. Thicker clothing will effect this set up.

 

[Heavy Barrel]

During the November season, it's usually warm enough then that either a vest or pull over is more than enough.

Though during late season, I usually wear something such as Bass Pro's Mountain Stalker Elite Four-Way.

The way I was always taught and have read when it comes to measuring LOP. You should measure from the pad of your index finger, to the inside of your bicep with your elbow bent at ninety degrees. By going that way, there is approx an inch between the butt of my rifle and my bicep.

I've thought about a Picatinny rail and rings. If I did that I'd have to go with higher rings. Currently there is less than an 1/8" between the chamber and the edge of the objective bell.

I'll try to get pictures up of this setup.

 

[Heavy Barrel]

Did you see this black haze when you sighted the rifle in or was it only seen at a later time, thicker warmer cloths? Do you see the haze at the lowest power setting or only at higher power?

Noticed during late season wearing thicker clothes. And the haze is most noticeable at either 12 or 14 magnification.

 

[OU812]

I don't know what rings/base you are using but some are reversible to move the scope in farther or out farther.

 

[OU812]

Did you see this black haze when you sighted the rifle in or was it only seen at a later time, thicker warmer cloths? Do you see the haze at the lowest power setting or only at higher power?

Noticed during late season wearing thicker clothes. And the haze is most noticeable at either 12 or 14 magnification.

Yep eye relief is the issue. If you have Leupold bases, depending on which ones they can be reversed.

Leupold Standard 2PC 2-Piece Rifle Scope Mount Base Product Info
For maximum accessibility to the magazine or breech area of your rifle, the Leupold Standard Two Piece Rifle Scope Mount Bases are precisely what you need. Fluted for a "custom" look, these Riflescope Bases manufactured by Leupold are also ideal if you're after greater flexibility when it comes to mounting options for your bolt action rifle. Reversible Leupold Standard 2 Piece Rifle Scope Mounts are available for many actions, accommodating a variety of scopes and action lengths. Additionally, these long lasting Leupold 2 Piece Standard Size Rifle Scope Bases fit both right-hand and left-hand actions.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Put on a picatinny rail and use Burris Signature series zee rings. ALL your problems will be gone once everything is properly set up.

BTW - Eye relief varies greatly on most scopes when viewed at the high & low end of magnification.

 

[Guy Miner]

Yes, agree with the others here. Scope should be just fine, but I'd recommend a different base/ring combo, allowing you to move the scope back a tad. Shouldn't need much.

Sometimes "offset" rings are a good answer, as they'll allow you to move the scope further back, without changing the base. Or just go with a base that allows more fore & aft adjustment. Either way.

Regards, Guy

 

[sask boy]

I don't want to sound like a broken record but I to believe that a rail and new set of rings will clear up this problem very quickly .

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Blkram]

As mentioned above.

The only specific not mentioned above is that the standard distance for Leupold scope's eye relief is 3.5-4", depending upon power setting of scope. Use of the right ring/base combination to get this distance of eye relief for your cheek weld on your rifle will eliminate your black haze.

 

[BretN]

I have the same problem with my Redfield 4-12x scope at higher powers when I'm wearing winter clothes. I just haven't gotten a picatiny rail for mine yet, as they are a bit expensive for my Tikka. Shouldn't be too bad for your Savage though as they are more common. Even extended bases would work. Be sure to set the eye relief after you put on new base(s) at max power on the scope while you are wearing your heavy clothes.

 

[cloverleaf]

Had to put a Leupold extended front ring (OFF SET )to get my scope back far enough on my Stevens 200 (Savage). My only complaint w/ Savages. The extended ring worked great. You are fighting the laws of physics (and optics) here a little bit. When you go to a higher power (4-12) eye relief is a little less forgiving. If you were talking a straight 6X or a VX 2-7 and you might make it w/o a problem. CL