July 10th range trip (pics)

[wisconsinteacher]

Well I had to goals today. One was to try my new steel targets out and the other was to get results from 3 rifles. Hitting the steel worked great and at 200 yards I was hitting the 3" with ease with the 6.5 Grendel and 6BR. Now to find a nice long field.

Up first was dad's 25-06. The first load dev showed promise but as of late the T3 has not been shooting well. Today I tried a new bullet with RL19. I used the 115PT and got poor results.
45gr-2.932
47gr-2.336
49gr-2.126

I am using Remington nickel brass and I know that I am not getting consistant neck tension so after I shot the rest of the lot up and plan to try the 110AB with IMR4350 next time out.

Next up was the Browning Medallion 270 with H4831sc and 130 B-Tips (the trigger has a lot of travel so that needs attention and for some reason, this rifle has some snap to it.)
55gr-.518
57gr-.977
59gr-2.842




Last was the 338wm with 210PT and RL19.

75gr-4.140"


73gr-3.573"


71gr-3.648"


I almost left it at the range. When I got home my wife, who really doesn't care asked, "How did you shoot?" I showed her the 338 targets and she said, "well at least it is consistent with the big groups."

What would you try with the 25-06 and 338wm?

 

[SJB358]

The 25-06 seems odd it is giving you such a hard time WT. Maybe grab some 115 BT's and load up Nosler's most accurate load, right down to the OAL and try it out. If it won't shoot a BT decently, I am thinking something else is amiss.

As for your 338, I have no clue man. I know you have shot a ton of different combo's, and none of which have taken great shapes for you. Have you checked out the bedding, stock torques, rings, bases etc? Also, look and see if something is binding. Your loads should be better than that across the board. I can see you shoot the other rifles just fine. Have you checked the crown? Something is just odd. I haven't seen one that wouldn't come together with something decently put together. You've got everything right, I believe there is something deeper were missing?

I would probably spring for a box of factory ammo, just to try. I don't like to do it, but sometimes it is a decent piece of mind to run something else through the gun, just to see if something is amiss.

 

[M7025-06]

When I first started working up a load for my 25-06 with 117 gr SGK's, I tried 3 different powders and about every seating depth/powder charge combo I could come up with...nothing worked. After talking to a few people, general consensus was the barrel twist on my rifle my not be a true 1-10'', but more of a 1-9.5'' (I haven't actually checked the twist rate on this rifle) and may be right on the edge of being able to stabilize the heavier bullets. I dropped down to a 100 gr. TSX and quickly started printing 1/2'' groups.

I think you're on the right track of dropping down to a slightly lighter bullet. It might make a world of difference.

As for the 338, I would try a slower burning powder and see what that gives you. Other than that...I don't know, maybe play around with the seating depth if you're not sure you want give up on the R19.

 

[OU812]

I'm with Scotty. Either there is something that is being missed or it's just a bad rifle. If you can please refresh my memory on the 338 with as much detail as you can. I know it's going to seem like starting over but maybe we need to start at ground zero again. I've owned many 338 wm's over the years and never seen one like yours having such a time finding a good consistent load.

What brand of rifle is it?
Do you have a list of bullet weight/powder combo's you've tried?
Is the barrel free floated?

 

[wisconsinteacher]

The 338wm is a Winchester M70 XRT Sporter that is bedded, and has had good trigger. I have used a Leupold VX-II, Minox and Leupold VX-III on the rifle. I have used 225 Hornady Interlocks and 210 PT so far out of the rifle. Currently, I am using virgin Win brass with Win LRMag primers. I have used H4350 and RL19 along with some Win 760 all with the same 3-4" groups. Once or twice I have shot a 1.5-2" group but have never been able to replete it. I am using RCBS dies to size and seat the bullets and measure OAL with a comparator.

The story is rifle was owned by a guy that had heart surgery and could not handle recoil greater than .243. I tried to get some of his reloading info but the guy at the store could not remember the original owner's name.

 

[Wis65x55]

In looking at the 338WM with 210gr PT and 75 gr of RL19; have you tried different seating depths? what kind of velocity are you getting?. From my limited experience, I would recommend that you invest in a quality trigger. I have seen that pay huge dividends in improving accuracy!
Keith

 

[OU812]

The 338wm is a Winchester M70 XRT Sporter that is bedded, and has had good trigger. I have used a Leupold VX-II, Minox and Leupold VX-III on the rifle. I have used 225 Hornady Interlocks and 210 PT so far out of the rifle. Currently, I am using virgin Win brass with Win LRMag primers. I have used H4350 and RL19 along with some Win 760 all with the same 3-4" groups. Once or twice I have shot a 1.5-2" group but have never been able to replete it. I am using RCBS dies to size and seat the bullets and measure OAL with a comparator.

The story is rifle was owned by a guy that had heart surgery and could not handle recoil greater than .243. I tried to get some of his reloading info but the guy at the store could not remember the original owner's name.

Are you using a torque wrench for the action screws? If so what is the torque inch lbs on the action screws?

What scope bases are you using?

Do you have any H4831 to try?

Has the barrel been cleaned of all copper and powder residue?

 

[OU812]

If you were to load up say 9 rounds of the exact same load and went out on 3 separate days and shot a 3 shot group each day will the rifle shoot them in the same location on the target each time or will the groups be in different locations?

 

[SJB358]

I'll echo what Bills getting at as well.

I don't think either of those powders will be topped. They are excellent for the 338. Besides if the rifle is that fussy I'd probably he annoyed anyhow. Recheck your TQ specs or vary them with your loads. See if there is a spot it wanted to shoot.

 

[JD338]

WT,

What is your bench and rest set up?
Maybe try a BullsBag.

JD338

 

[HTDUCK]

I've had two A Bolts and you're right, they kick harder than a mule for some reason.
My 30-06 felt like I was shooting a 300 Win that weighed six lbs and the 300 Win I bought felt like I was shooting a 155 howitzer.
Gave them both to my brother and he put brakes on them.

As for the 338 you said it's been bedded. Can you run a $1.00 bill from the end of the stock to the receiver without it making contact ?

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I have Leupold rings and bases set at 15# for the rings, 30# for the mounts and 40# for the windage screws. (in/lbs)

Action screws (in/lbs) front 50#, middle and rear 30# each.

I have been shooting off the bags. Today I kept one hand over the scope. All the other times, I only had my trigger hand on the rifle.

Over the past three years of fighting this rifle, I have deep cleaned it with Sweets 5-6 times. As far as shooting at the same point of impact, yes, it stays in the same area. It just looks like you shot it with buckshot.

The barrel is floated to the bedding.

 

[OU812]

Man it sure seems that you have your bases covered for accuracy. Might be worth a check of your crown and see if it's damaged or have it recrowned just to be sure. If you have a gunsmith handy they could recrown the muzzle for 50-60 bucks give or take, or, you can order a tool and do it yourself.

 

[SJB358]

Action screws (in/lbs) front 50#, middle and rear 30# each.

Retorque your stock, just for grins. Place the rifle on the but, torque the rear to 25# and the front to 25#, then torque the middle to 15#, go back and retorque the back and front to 50#. 30 on the middle screw is more than I have ever done. Not saying your wrong, but I would try it. It doesn't need a whole lot of torque on it.

 

[R Flowers]

Like everyone else here, I am just guessing, but I have a couple of ideas for you.

In the 25-06 I would try another bullet. As much as the 115 Partition seems like an ideal projectile, they have never shot well for me in several 25-06 rifles. On the other hand the 115 BT shoots great as does the 100 grain Partition.

In the 25-06 after years of trying this and that I have settle on IMR 4831 with a standard large rifle primer for bullets of 100 grains or less. For heavier bullets I use IMR 7828 and a Fed 215m primer for best results.

I have tried all sorts of things in the .338 Win Mag and RL 19 is sometimes a good choice. However, after lots of testing I found that it always gave smaller groups and smaller ES and SD on the chronograph when I used a standard primer. I tried Federal, CCI, and Winchester, all three brands gave better performance when I used the standard primer instead of the magnum version.

I now have settle on H 4350 for all my .338 Win Mag loads with a Fed 215M primer.

Do not overlook the Barnes Triple Shocks. Living in CA I had to go to no-lead bullets and the Barnes has worked very well for me. I shoot the 80 Tipped TSX and the standard 100 grain TSX in my 25-06. (That 80 grain bullet at 3600 fps is an antelope killer and that 100 grain TSX drops wild hogs like you cannot believe.)

In the 338 Win Mag I have gone from my old favorite 225 grain Nosler Partition to the 210 grain TSX and have had good results with it as well. (They even shoot to the same POI, go figure)

But I would check all the other things guys suggested like screws and such.

Good luck, sometimes it just takes a while.

 

[SJB358]

Like everyone else here, I am just guessing, but I have a couple of ideas for you.

In the 25-06 I would try another bullet. As much as the 115 Partition seems like an ideal projectile, they have never shot well for me in several 25-06 rifles. On the other hand the 115 BT shoots great as does the 100 grain Partition.

In the 25-06 after years of trying this and that I have settle on IMR 4831 with a standard large rifle primer for bullets of 100 grains or less. For heavier bullets I use IMR 7828 and a Fed 215m primer for best results.

I have tried all sorts of things in the .338 Win Mag and RL 19 is sometimes a good choice. However, after lots of testing I found that it always gave smaller groups and smaller ES and SD on the chronograph when I used a standard primer. I tried Federal, CCI, and Winchester, all three brands gave better performance when I used the standard primer instead of the magnum version.

I now have settle on H 4350 for all my .338 Win Mag loads with a Fed 215M primer.

Do not overlook the Barnes Triple Shocks. Living in CA I had to go to no-lead bullets and the Barnes has worked very well for me. I shoot the 80 Tipped TSX and the standard 100 grain TSX in my 25-06. (That 80 grain bullet at 3600 fps is an antelope killer and that 100 grain TSX drops wild hogs like you cannot believe.)

In the 338 Win Mag I have gone from my old favorite 225 grain Nosler Partition to the 210 grain TSX and have had good results with it as well. (They even shoot to the same POI, go figure)

But I would check all the other things guys suggested like screws and such.

Good luck, sometimes it just takes a while.

Great advice there too.. Great perspective. Seems like it's worth a shot.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

The screws are now 50-30-50 and the crown passed the q-tip test. Smooth as silk.

 

[OU812]

The screws are now 50-30-50 and the crown passed the q-tip test. Smooth as silk.

Is the mag box loose and free floating, no binding? I've always had great luck with H4831 and 250 grain bullets of any flavor.

Short of lifting the scope and inserting a new rifle under it I'm running out of thoughts.

I've got some 225 tsx, 225 ttsx and 250 Partition bullets I'll send you to try if you want.

 

[OU812]

The screws are now 50-30-50 and the crown passed the q-tip test. Smooth as silk.

One other thing to try is set your action screws to 30 inch lbs, shoot and see how the group looks. tighten the front and rear in 5 inch lb increments and try again ect.. to 50 inch lbs.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Not trying to be a smart a$$ but don't you play with action screws when you are really fine tuning a rifle. To me, a 1/16 or 1/8 turn on a screw is not going to take a 4" group down to 1". Again, not trying to come across as a snot, just trying to learn. (and not set the rifle on the curb with a for free sign on it)