Loose primer pockets update

[jockperkins]

Everyone,

I had posted earlier problems with loose primer pockets on my 280AI. If you remember correctly, I was using Nosler brass, 60.0 grains of RL22, 160 grain Accubonds and CCI 250 primers.

Update: per suggestions offered by JD338 I fireformed brass from regular 280 Remington virgin casings and then loaded the aforementioned using the same dies, bullets etc. etc. etc. I made sure to use the same dimensions in terms of case length, etc. as well. The only difference was the weight of the virgin Remington brass which sorted to 10 grains heavier than the Nosler casings I had been using (which should have created more pressure theoretically). I shot two rounds of the load I had been using (each casing fired two times), which was enlarging the primer pockets on the Nosler brass. The primer pockets held on the Remington brass with no increase in internal diameter. I just hand primed these fireformed and fired 2x cases (for a total of 3x firings) and the primers seat with the same pressure of the original, virgin, unfired brass.

I am not here to beat on anyone -- or Nosler, the company that I think, for the most part, does things the "right" way (love their bullets, guns etc.). But it wasn't the reamer dimensions or the the way the gunsmith cut the chamber. Nosler brass in the 280AI configuration is too soft and prone to primer pocket loosening from the first firing ( and I have brass from multiple lots). Now, you should know that I have 500 casings of Nosler in the 204 Ruger configuration that I will continue to use ,no problems with them, even when I run pressures hunting in warmer temps. But their supplier of 280AI brass needs to re-think their formula or pour a heavier, heartier lot. Until that time, I will be forced to fireform from Remington and sort (cull) by weight, length and concentricity. This is one thing that Nosler does right on their brass. Virtually eliminating the need for this process. Lets hope Nosler listens and looks into this...

 

[300WSM]

Glad you found the issue.

Always nice to be able to take a relaxing sigh when chasing the tail on something.

 

[chet]

I wonder if the case heads somehow were accidentally annealed.....

too bad there is not an easy way to case harden brass......

 

[SJB358]

If it were me, I would give them a call. They are just about the nicest folks in our arena. That's alot of brass to ditch because it's soft. I have been using their 338 and 264 WM brass. So far it is awesome. I did lose a couple pockets out of the 264, but it was over max charges. The rest continues to be excellent.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

my experience with nosler brass yielded the same conclusions, I was losing the pocket with fireform loads that the rems took in stride. will not pay lapua prices for inferior brass.
RR

 

[jockperkins]

If it were me, I would give them a call. They are just about the nicest folks in our arena. That's alot of brass to ditch because it's soft. I have been using their 338 and 264 WM brass. So far it is awesome. I did lose a couple pockets out of the 264, but it was over max charges. The rest continues to be excellent.

Yes, they are great and I love most of their products. But I think most people are chalking my problem up to factors that I am already familiar with and have checked repeatedly. I am sure that not all people are familiar with techniques used to check for increased pressures etc. and for this reason, I am getting the same answers they would be given upon initial discovery. But I cannot seem to get past these. Perhaps others are not finding the same problem or do not load and shoot as often as I. Or maybe they are chalking the problem up to other factors and they are still fighting with it. I have noticed when googling that there are a few like me out there who are struggling and have not yet had there problem answered adequately. I love the fact that Nosler does spend so much time sorting prior to boxing and selling. It sure makes my job of reloading easy. That said, I have bought 6 boxes of brass -- all different lot numbers and still experience the same problem with all. I have reduced the loads, checked to make sure I was off the lands, used Large Rifle Primers instead of Magnum, etc. etc. still loose.

 

[JD338]

Jock,

Very cool. 8) Glad the R-P ff brass is working for you.

JD338

 

[Oldtrader3]

Without any testing equipment or sending cases to Nosler for inspection and testing, it is pretty difficult to assess what is going on with another person's handloads. Using a chronograph along with the various loads that you fired might have given you part of the answer to your issues as far as pressure is concerned.

Most people do not have access to a Brinell hardness tester to check the tempering of your brass and discern if it has been annealed too soft for use. Your loads all sounded pretty normal for that caliber (to me) but I dod not handload for that caliber and did not want to add to the existing confusion.

There are some technical issue such as Brinell hardness checking that only can be done by a manufacturer with their test lab equipment. It is not fair to blame the members of this forum for not having the resources or laboratory equipment to help you much with an issue such as this one. Very few of us have an engineering lab in our garage.

For future reference, if you have a digital or mechanical micrometer which can read to 1/10,000 of an inch, you can measure the stretch of the head web of the brass at the same marked point before and after each firing and ascertain if the brass is too soft by measuring change rates after each firing. If you lack the equipment or skills to do this, then you have to return the cases to the manufacturer for evaluation.

 

[jockperkins]

Oldtrader3,

While I agree that I, nor any of the folks posting on this site, have access to such equipment, evidence contrary to basic assumption has been met (at least sufficient to answer the question as to whether chamber pressures were exceeded beyond the normal range). A hardness test would mostly likely confirm but again, with the same load, with all things being the same in terms of equipment and procedure excepting the brand of brass, one casing type failed on one firing, with the other passing with three.

I understand the need to protect the supplier. Most of us on this forum like Nosler and feel that we have some sort of personal relationship with them. I was attempting to find if anyone else had had the same problem. Instead of getting answers from most folks, it seemed they were bent on finding something wrong with procedure, gunsmith or otherwise. I had previously mentioned that all those had already checked out. It seemed no one believed me. JD338 came to the rescue and my problem was solved. Thank you JD338!

The answer you provided is true. Only a gauge could tell me what truly is happening but comparisons using the same among different brands, also provides information. If I were running excessive chamber pressures would I not find the same results with the use of different brands of brass -- all other things being the same?

I do appreciate your input!

 

[IdahoCTD]

It would be interesting to know if people reloading factory loaded ammo in the same caliber have loose pockets when attempting to reload it. It might be worth a call to Nosler to see if the problem has been noted elsewhere or to get them to check the brass out.

 

[jockperkins]

IdahoCTD,

Yes it would. Though I wonder how many of those who shoot the Nosler factory ammo also reload. Anyone want to chime in?