M70 with 165's.

[ShadeTree]

JD's post got me to thinking and it occurred to me that I had tried Speer BT 165's in my M70 with RL16 and had walked away from it because it didn't shoot up to standards for this gun with a couple loads I thought should be close.

Not horrible but both 150's and 180's of numerous brands were not hard to get to shoot very well out of this gun so I moved on from these 165's and forgot about it.

His post spurred me to keep it simple and try 2 things I know. This rifle generally likes around .040 off with numerous bullets, and IMR 4350 likes a full case.

It already shoots several bullet types of 180 gr with 56.2-56.5 gr's of IMR 4350 without pressure, so there was no need to use starting loads going with a lighter bullet.

Just loaded up 1 at 56, 1 at 56.5 checking pressure just to be safe, then 3 at 57gr's.

5/8" MOA out of the box with no load workup which is far more typical of groups with this rifle.



The old 1969 M70 complete with see thru mounts and a heavy cross haired Simmons 3x9. This rifle routinely dispels 2 myths. A. Early post 64, M70's aren't good rifles. B. 30-06's can't hang with 308's for accuracy.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

That most certainly does shoot well. I have yet to find a .30-06 that didn't like 165 grain bullets and IMR4350.

It's simple sure but what's wrong with simple? It works, so there is one less thing to worry about.

And there isn't a thing wrong with the push-feed Post-64 Model 70 rifles as a rule. Looks like you found another pet load for yours!

 

[DrMike]

You definitely have a shooter in that rifle/load combination. I've owned several post-64 Model 70s, and all were shooters. I still have a couple, though they've been rechambered.

 

[JD338]

ST,

That looks pretty good to me. You are set to go. Nice work.

JD338

 

[Guy Miner]

Very nice!

 

[ShadeTree]

Thanks fella's. Fun gun to shoot because it's been so accurate with so many different combinations. 1 of the worst guns I have to shoot off the bench in summertime clothes. Hence the slip on pad.

I have three 30-06's. Glad JD made that post because it reminded me I had never tried following my own advice on powder for 165's, with this rifle. Was easy to walk away and forget about these bullets when several brands of 150's and 180's were reliable shooters in this gun without a lot of fussing.

 

[ShadeTree]

I was going back over some of the targets produced by this rifle and thought I'd post a couple for reference if somebody so chooses to try it, as I myself have tried what ended up being good loads in different cartridges that came from what I realized was a consensus across numerous sites.

150's and IMR 4350 works quite well in 06's. Although typically with IMR 4350 it is at full pressure which means stuffing about as much as you can get in the case for 150's.

58-59 gr's, although in this rifle I also have a soft load with IMR 4350 that works quite well.

This is Speer HC at 59 gr's.




With 150's I prefer IMR 4064. 51-52 gr's usually works. This is 52 gr's with Hornady's. With 150's it will run with the best accuracy produced by 4350 and does it with more speed and easier on the shoulder than the 58-59 gr 4350 loads.

All loads in my 06's I use Remington brass and CCI 200 primers. As always start below and work up.



P.S. Looking at these targets I realized I forgot 3rd grade math when I shot that speer target. That target should read .424.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I'm not sure how I missed this post in June, but I found it now.

I, like you ShadeTree, have had excellent results with the push feed Winchester M70's.
I had a .243 Winchester M70 XTR that absolutely loved 100 gr Cor Lokt Remington factory rounds. She worked perfectly. She was accurate, just like yours.
I had another one that was in .223 Rem, and it loved the Federal Red box 55 gr Hollow Point varmint ammo.
If someone offered me a push feed M70 in a caliber I liked, I would snatch it up in a New York minute. That's how much I like them!
Yes, they don't look like the pre '64's, but so big whoop! If the rifle is accurate, and it has really nice wood on it, I'm all for that. Now, if she's accurate like your's, I think I would want to be buried with it! No, all joking aside, that's an amazing piece of rifle you got there!
Plus, your rifle skills are above norm, and you can make that rifle sing.
What kind of Simmons 3-9 scope do you have on her? An 8 point, or Whitetail Classic?
I have to admit, I've been a long time can of Simmons scopes, and I know a lot of people poo on them, but for me, they have worked, and kept working.
Now, this next question is for all who have an '06.
Is a good 165 gr bullet the all around choice for mixed big game hunting?
I've recently seen some QL loads on another post that pushed the 165 gr up to 3000 fps. For the old '06, that's a screaming bullet, and would have to be absolutely devastating for any game animal hit by that, I would think!


Hawk

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[DrMike]

I had a push feed Model 70 Featherweight chambered in 280 Rem. Sorry I let it go. However, I did find one of the controlled-round feed models chambered in the same cartridge. I snapped it up quickly and have not let it go. I now have a push feed Model 70 Featherweight chambered in 284 Win, which is a fine shooter. Yeah, the push feed got a bad rap, but the slander was pretty much that--slander.

 

[SJB358]

We still have a few push feeder's in the safe that work real well.

That's a great shooting barrel. About the same vintage as the Old Goats M70 PF 300 Win Mag. He has many, many targets with Sierra, Speer and Nosler 180's using H4350 under a 1/2". They got something right with those old barrels!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I had a push feed Model 70 Featherweight chambered in 280 Rem. Sorry I let it go. However, I did find one of the controlled-round feed models chambered in the same cartridge. I snapped it up quickly and have not let it go. I now have a push feed Model 70 Featherweight chambered in 284 Win, which is a fine shooter. Yeah, the push feed got a bad rap, but the slander was pretty much that--slander.

I have to agree with you there. The gun writers and some of the general public certainly did slander the push feed M70's!


Hawk

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[HAWKEYESATX]

We still have a few push feeder's in the safe that work real well.

That's a great shooting barrel. About the same vintage as the Old Goats M70 PF 300 Win Mag. He has many, many targets with Sierra, Speer and Nosler 180's using H4350 under a 1/2". They got something right with those old barrels!

You definitely hit the nail right on the head there.
They sure are excellent shooters!


Hawk

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[ShadeTree]

We still have a few push feeder's in the safe that work real well.

That's a great shooting barrel. About the same vintage as the Old Goats M70 PF 300 Win Mag. He has many, many targets with Sierra, Speer and Nosler 180's using H4350 under a 1/2". They got something right with those old barrels!

This got bumped back to the top of the page so I ran across it. Yeah it's been a shooter Scotty........I really should bed the lug and tang and free float the barrel, as the point of impact shifts an inch or so at both ends of the temp and humidity extremes. I know darn well why that is, but so far haven't talked myself into it as it's easy enough just to double check zero before hunting season.

 

[SJB358]

For sure. It is nice to not worry about POI shifts and chances are it won't get worse with a good bedding job. Plus, if if doesn't shoot well fully floated it isn't anything to add a pressure point back in the barrel.

Those sorta rifles can make you smile alot when they work like that everytime you fire em up.

 

[ShadeTree]

Hawke, I missed your question to me the first time I read your post.

It's a Simmons 8 point scope, 3-9x40. Can buy them new for $60-$65. Probably was a $30-$35 scope when my father in law would've bought it new in the mid 90's. Heavy crosshairs.

I should help the rifle out by at least putting a low mount scope base on it instead of that high see-thru, but so far I've left it the way he had it, and can manage to shoot it well enough usually.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Hawke, I missed your question to me the first time I read your post.

It's a Simmons 8 point scope, 3-9x40. Can buy them new for $60-$65. Probably was a $30-$35 scope when my father in law would've bought it new in the mid 90's. Heavy crosshairs.

I should help the rifle out by at least putting a low mount scope base on it instead of that high see-thru, but so far I've left it the way he had it, and can manage to shoot it well enough usually.

I would say, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.
It groups very well the way it is. But to also say, it would probably group as well on a lower mount.
How clear is the scope itself?
I saw in several articles, that several of the Top of the Ten Best scopes, the Simmons 8 point 3-9x50 scope was surprisingly on that list. I was astonished.
I remember I had a Simmons 44 scope on my .25-06 2 decades ago, and remember the cross hairs being quite thick, compared to other scopes, but I got groups that I could cover with a nickel while using that scope.


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

Now, this next question is for all who have an '06.
Is a good 165 gr bullet the all around choice for mixed big game hunting?
I've recently seen some QL loads on another post that pushed the 165 gr up to 3000 fps. For the old '06, that's a screaming bullet, and would have to be absolutely devastating for any game animal hit by that, I would think!


Hawk

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I have tried many different types and weights of bullets in my .30-06 over the years. I started out with 150s but elk got me to try heavier bullets.

For where I do most of my hunting and so forth, the 165 grain bullet is the optimal weight. Now if I lived in Alaska or Africa I might kick it up to a 180 or 200 grain bullet.

But for the regular joes (and janes) who hunt deer, antelope, black bear and elk with an occasional hog or sheep thrown in, I don’t think the 165 grain (especially the AccuBond or Partition) can be beaten for all around use. I’ve used both and they are great.

I load mine to leave the muzzle at 2800-2850 feet per second as they shoot accurately and fly plenty flat out to my idea of far enough to not shoot/get closer.

The .30-06 to me is everything I need and a bag of chips when it comes to a hunting rifle. Loaded with a 165 grain bullet it’s never let me down.


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[HAWKEYESATX]

Now, this next question is for all who have an '06.
Is a good 165 gr bullet the all around choice for mixed big game hunting?
I've recently seen some QL loads on another post that pushed the 165 gr up to 3000 fps. For the old '06, that's a screaming bullet, and would have to be absolutely devastating for any game animal hit by that, I would think!


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

I have tried many different types and weights of bullets in my .30-06 over the years. I started out with 150s but elk got me to try heavier bullets.

For where I do most of my hunting and so forth, the 165 grain bullet is the optimal weight. Now if I lived in Alaska or Africa I might kick it up to a 180 or 200 grain bullet.

But for the regular joes (and janes) who hunt deer, antelope, black bear and elk with an occasional hog or sheep thrown in, I don’t think the 165 grain (especially the AccuBond or Partition) can be beaten for all around use. I’ve used both and they are great.

I load mine to leave the muzzle at 2800-2850 feet per second as they shoot accurately and fly plenty flat out to my idea of far enough to not shoot/get closer.

The .30-06 to me is everything I need and a bag of chips when it comes to a hunting rifle. Loaded with a 165 grain bullet it’s never let me down.


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That's really good information you gave.
Thank you!
I will tuck this away for a later day.


Hawk

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