I milled a 7mm 140gr BT, a .30 165 BT, a .338 200gr BT, a 338 300gr AB, and a 300gr .458 BT in half. The 200gr BT and 300gr AB look quite similar inside. I thought I grabbed a 180gr 30 cal BT but when I cut it open I realized it wasn't. I've cut them open before and they are the heavier shank like the .338 200gr bullets. After talking to the guy at SPS I was a little dissapointed in the jacket thickness of the .458 300gr BT. It looks quite similar to many pistol bullets.
Milled some bullets in half today
- Thread starter IdahoCTD
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nvbroncrider
Handloader
- Aug 20, 2011
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Nice work on the mill Nathan. It is quite interesting to see them in half and I agree the .458 looks like a pistol round. Is that one designed for the 45-70? If so it kinda makes sense for a thinner jacket so the bullet can expand at 45-70 velocities.
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DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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Great photos, Nathan. On the .458, I keep in mind that the design depends on mass to accomplish the work. Though it is thin, that amount of mass will inflict massive damage even though expansion may not be as controlled as one could wish. It is a little like the people using the 300 grain Sierra MK in the 338 LM. They are depending on the mass to accomplish the goal of killing the animal despite a thin jacket.
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Yeah I know Mike. I was hoping for a little more so I could feel better about zinging them 3k or so out of my long barreled Lott. I don't know why Nosler doesn't make every hunting weight BT like the 200gr .338 bullets with the heavier shank. They still open really well in the smaller calibers and down to low velocities.
joelkdouglas
Handloader
- Jun 5, 2011
- 1,310
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Nice!
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,587
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Nathan,
Nice job! The 338 200 gr BT looks really tough!
JD338
Nice job! The 338 200 gr BT looks really tough!
JD338
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
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Most people who I know (including my two sons) that shoot the 300 gr .458 bullet in the .45-70 are pushing them at about 1900-2100 fps. I always used the "Marlin" loading data in the manuals for my 300 and 350 gr bullets.
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I haven't done a 180gr AB. I've actually never shot them before. I've shot a lot of 180gr BT's though. I have 225gr .338 and 260gr .375 AB's but I think those are the only other AB's I have. I have some 225gr .358 BT's and some loaded 260gr .375 BT's from before Nosler discontinued them.
Nathan, very cool. I did it with a file a little while back. Never dawned on me to throw them into the mill!
Anyhow, yeah, that 300 BST is pretty soft. Brian launches them around 2400 out of his Marlin. They won't hardly get to the 3rd jug at muzzle velocity, but it they are slowed down to around the 40-50 yard area, they break down below that 2000 mark and expand.. They are kinda neat bullets, but I really think they are a waste not being bonded. They are great bullets for deer and such, but there are tougher 458 bullets out there that cost much less, with the Speer 300 grain HP.
I think we were cheated, they did away with the PT and gave us a BT for our 45-70. Wasn't a fair trade. The 300 PT is an amazing bullet.
Anyhow, yeah, that 300 BST is pretty soft. Brian launches them around 2400 out of his Marlin. They won't hardly get to the 3rd jug at muzzle velocity, but it they are slowed down to around the 40-50 yard area, they break down below that 2000 mark and expand.. They are kinda neat bullets, but I really think they are a waste not being bonded. They are great bullets for deer and such, but there are tougher 458 bullets out there that cost much less, with the Speer 300 grain HP.
I think we were cheated, they did away with the PT and gave us a BT for our 45-70. Wasn't a fair trade. The 300 PT is an amazing bullet.
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- #12
I agree Scotty. At least they could thicken the base so they can withstand close range impact or Lott velocities. The TSX bullets are tough too but not cheap. I might have to try one out on a rock chuck at close range with my Lott. I doubt I would trust one on a bear even at 165yds with a Lott's velocity.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
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I would like to see some .338 bullets (AB and 225 gr Partitions). I will send you a few if you do not have them.
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- #15
- Nov 4, 2004
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I was loading the .458 cal 300 gr BST in my 45-70 at 2200 fps and decided to back it down to 2050 fps for WT deer.
There is plenty of expansion and penetration at this speed. Above 2400 fps may be just too fast for this bullet.
An AB version would be excellent!
JD338
There is plenty of expansion and penetration at this speed. Above 2400 fps may be just too fast for this bullet.
An AB version would be excellent!
JD338
Without a doubt Jim. Some sort of Flat Pointed AB in the 300-350 range would stop me from looking further for a heavy game bullet for my 45-70. I do have about 200, 300 grain PT's, but I would like to have something else that Nosler makes. With the amount of 45 cal shooters out there, in various forms, I think it would be a solid performer. I just don't think the 300 BST would make a good heavy game bullet, or at least what I would like from it, it expands a little too much which limits penetration. I think Brian's bullet was nearly an 1" in diameter but it couldn't make it through a 85-100lb deer quartering to. Seems like it should have blown through it...
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,864
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A couple of observations:
1. Nosler has certainly cured the Ballistic Tip's old tendency to over-expand and under-penetrate. That thick jacket base has got to help. I was using B-Tips back when they were first introduced, and today they're just as accurate, but hold together better. The thick base on the Ballistic Tip is something I'm very impressed with.
2. Since the demise of the great 300 gr Nosler Partition, I think the .45/70 crew is well served with a couple of 350 gr alternatives.
The Hornady (in either flat nose or round nose versions), or the Swift A-Frame. Then there's the 350 gr Northfork... The Swift and Northfork bullets though are very expensive. I did find that it wasn't hard to load the Hornady FNSP and the Swift A-Frame to the same velocity and point of impact, at least out to 150 yards or so.
Choose the Swift when having a premium, Partition-type bonded bullet matters, and the Hornady for those times when it doesn't.
I still think a 350 gr Nosler Partition would be GREAT!
Guy
1. Nosler has certainly cured the Ballistic Tip's old tendency to over-expand and under-penetrate. That thick jacket base has got to help. I was using B-Tips back when they were first introduced, and today they're just as accurate, but hold together better. The thick base on the Ballistic Tip is something I'm very impressed with.
2. Since the demise of the great 300 gr Nosler Partition, I think the .45/70 crew is well served with a couple of 350 gr alternatives.
The Hornady (in either flat nose or round nose versions), or the Swift A-Frame. Then there's the 350 gr Northfork... The Swift and Northfork bullets though are very expensive. I did find that it wasn't hard to load the Hornady FNSP and the Swift A-Frame to the same velocity and point of impact, at least out to 150 yards or so.
Choose the Swift when having a premium, Partition-type bonded bullet matters, and the Hornady for those times when it doesn't.
I still think a 350 gr Nosler Partition would be GREAT!
Guy
Guy Miner":30njefu4 said:
That would be the keeper for me Guy. I can't ask for that bullet enough. You would not stop one of them short of an elephants skull!
Plus, the 350's offer some good trajectory as well. I pray Nosler does us 45-70 guys a favor and works them up again. I don't think they realize how well they would sell. Even factory ammo would fly off the shelf. Buffalo Bore and Garrett ammo isn't cheap and not many of their bullets would hold a candle to a 350 PT at around 1900-2000. It would really hammer big game. Plus, after it sheds its little nose, it is going deep!
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- #20
Here are a few more I did this morning. They are .338 225gr AB, .358 225gr BT, and .358 250gr PT. It's pretty easy to see where the basis of the AB's came from. The big caliber BT's were pretty spectacular on game. I wish Nosler would bring them back. I friend of mine shot a whitetail doe with 260gr .375 caliber BT's out of a .375JRS. It was about 30yds and upon impact it blew a huge puff of hair out. I walked up to get the deer, all 40-50lbs of her, and there was a 20' circle of hair on the ground. Needless to say not much of it was edible but it was a site to behold.
