Multiple Rifles Out at the Range Yesterday

[stevelsd]

I didn't take pics but will next time (geesh - back to being a newbie after almost 4 years away from the range or hunting)
Using Son's Garmin Xero. I wish I could afford one of these myself but son will let me use his so

Yesterday's Range Time (Testing for Max Load Powder Charge Only)
I have to brag about this one rifle. (Scotty might recall from years ago)
12 - 13 years ago I purchased a Weatherby Vanguard Series 1 338 Win Mag for $379. It has always been an incredible shooter. Yesterday no exception.
3 test groups
Nosler 225 gr AccuBond.
New last max load of 73.8 grs of H4831sc, .885 bullseye averaging 2804 fps with STD 8.3 and I haven't even tested nodes yet! I am happy.

Hunting Partner's Model 70 30-06 (Scotty see another Model 70!)
3 test groups
Nosler 180 Partition PPT
Max load of 56.8 grs of RL 17, 1.65 bullseye averaging 2771 fps with STD 7.8. Again only tested for pressure but I can work with this

Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 7mm 08
3 test groups
Nosler 120 BT
Max load of 48.8 grs of IMR 4350, 1.8 bullseye averaging 2956.1 fps with STD (34.0 - ouch) Again only tested for pressure but I can work with this

Here are two huge disappointments
Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 7mm 08
3 test groups
Nosler 150 Partition
Max load of 45.7 grs of RL 17, (beyond 3.5" groups) averaging 2795 fps with STD of 18.3 - Geesh back to the drawing board on this one

Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 7mm 08
3 test groups
Nosler 160 AccuBond
Max load of 44 grs of RL 17, (beyond 4+" groups) averaging 2590 fps with STD of 13.3 - Geesh back to the drawing board on this one

Going Back out on Friday for the two disappointments
To top things off (see Products forum), I forgot my ear muffs and only had ear plugs. Left the range with both ears muffled. This morning left ear back to normal but right ear still partially muffled.

 

[salmonchaser]

Check your rings and bases on the 7-08. Something ain't right. A standard deviation in the low teens isn't the issue.
If you shot in the sequence you described the rifle started kinda poor at 1.8 and ended at 4 plus. Makes me think something is about ready to fall off the trailer, so to speak.

 

[Charlie-NY]

I agree with SalmonChaser. It's actually difficult to get a modern rifle to shoot groups that exceed 2"-3".

 

[JD338]

I agree with Dan and Charlie, it's sounds like scope mounts/rings or loose action screws.

JD338

 

[stevelsd]

Well not sure what to say. I was hoping it was the base or rings loose but they are solid.. The 120 BTs shot decent.. The 150 partitions and 160 accubonds shot literally horrible. not one round was even close to another and i went down range to check each group before starting the next. Guess will try something different for tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks all

 

[JD338]

Well not sure what to say. I was hoping it was the base or rings loose but they are solid.. The 120 BTs shot decent.. The 150 partitions and 160 accubonds shot literally horrible. not one round was even close to another and i went down range to check each group before starting the next. Guess will try something different for tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks all

Did you check the action screws? Proper torque spec? Also look at the bedding and barrel channel for proper seating and clearance.

JD338

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Try some Big Game or Stabal 6.5, 760 and H4350 powders usually work well. Hope you find the problem.

 

[RL338]

What kind of rest set up are you shooting off of? Might want to try another scope to rule that out.

 

[stevelsd]

Lead Sled DFT 2

Going to the range tomorrow with some thoughts. Will give results tomorrow.

 

[salmonchaser]

Led sleds are horrible in my opinion. It does perhaps depend on the rifle but I’ve had really bad experience with my #1s on led sleds. Won’t ever use one again. My guess is that particular rifle is behaving like my 300 HH #1. I bet if you shot that rifle off sandbags you would see distinct improvement.

 

[JD338]

Led sleds are horrible in my opinion. It does perhaps depend on the rifle but I’ve had really bad experience with my #1s on led sleds. Won’t ever use one again. My guess is that particular rifle is behaving like my 300 HH #1. I bet if you shot that rifle off sandbags you would see distinct improvement.

This may explain why the lighter weight load shoots better.

JD338

 

[sako2]

Led sleds are horrible in my opinion. It does perhaps depend on the rifle but I’ve had really bad experience with my #1s on led sleds. Won’t ever use one again. My guess is that particular rifle is behaving like my 300 HH #1. I bet if you shot that rifle off sandbags you would see distinct improvement.

I have a Blackhawk version of the lead sled. To me you can't feel if you have the rifle shouldered right. Plus they crack wooden stocks on heavy recoilers. I took a die grinder with a cutting wheel and cut the back out of it. Lets you shoulder the rifle much better.

 

[stevelsd]

Thanks Salmonchaser and JD338!. Truly I greatly appreciate your direction and guidance.
Yeah, when I first purchased the Lead Sled (2010) and then joined this forum, (I think 2010-2012: can't remember) a lot of expert shooters were critical regarding the use of the lead sled. The biggest complaint was that it cracked stocks?
To be candid, I have used it for my 338 win mag, 300 win mag, 300 wsm, 270 win, at least three 30-06 spring, two 7mm mag, and this 7mm 08 rem. No cracked stocks (synthetic or wooden) and honestly, with the exception of the 270 win, all shot 1.25 or better using the lead sled. (Not all had touching clover leaf's but still very good hunting rifle's and loads.)

But here is the huge caveat.... Have I been wrong in life? More than I can count for real and I never stop learning so I will give that a shot today (lil pun intended)
I would be ecstatic if the bags make a huge diff!

I am excited!

 

[stevelsd]

Good Morning Sako2 and all early morning risers. Sako2, I see we are both early risers! We posted just about the same time.
Once I have my loads to my desired accuracy, I do not use the sled or the bench any more. I shoot all remaining target practice shooting offhand and I almost always recommend offhand to all my hunting buddies before we go hunt. I grew up in the early 70's only knowing offhand, sitting, and prone shooting both on the school Rifle team and in real life hunting. For my neck of the woods, no one had benches and one learned how to shoot almost exclusively offhand.
Sako2 I do appreciate your thoughts and experience!

Steve

 

[salmonchaser]

I save all the ammo I don’t shoot during load developement for practice on steel. If it’s apparent quickly that a new effort is not going to replace what I currently use, I finish the day shooting plates from various posistions. If the tested load was reasonably close to the zero I have on the rifle I’ll shoot at distance from sitting or kneeling. If it’s low and off vertical I’ll shoot at 100 and hold the upper edge of the plate. I’d rather get the trigger time in than pull bullets and recover powder.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

Led sleds are horrible in my opinion. It does perhaps depend on the rifle but I’ve had really bad experience with my #1s on led sleds. Won’t ever use one again.

I’ve not had good luck with them either Don. I always have to do a proper sight in off the bags after using the sled.

 

[RL338]

Poor accuracy and lead sleds seem to go hand in hand. A decent front rest and rear bag is a much better option. I have a couple of Caldwell front rests and rear bags from Protektor.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I've never used a lead sled myself but have seen them used at the range with mixed results. An adjustable front rest and rear pinch bag for most rifles and or a front bull bag especially with heavier recoiling rifles. Anymore I use the bull type bag for most everything.

 

[JD338]

Yup, I have been using the Bull Bag X7 System since 2012.

Bulls Bag X7 System

I called Bulls Bag Friday but they were closed, didn't leave a message. Saturday early afternoon I recieved a call from Marshall Hill, the President of Bulls Bag asking if there was something I needed or if he could answer any questions. I thought, WOW, here is a man that cares about the...

forum.nosler.com

JD338

 

[Blkram]

I just never got comfortable with the hold and feel of a rifle in a lead sled.
I have been using a bull bag for the front and a rear bag for years, and I find it more comfortable and easy to use. And I have produced some good groups with these over the years when sighting in, and testing ammo and handloads for accuracy.
More often than not, it has been me, not the rifle, for poor groups...but there have been rifles that just don't like certain bullets!
And that 7mm-08 just might be one that doesn't like the 150 gr Partition and 160 gr AB

If it has performed well with other bullets in the same weight class, this can be an indicator of not liking certain bullets...if itr hasn't shot well with any bullets in the same weight class, than it is is a barrel issue for weight preference.

Have you inspected the muzzle crown?