My quest for a LR paper puncher

[ajvigs]

Well, I have been creeping on other forums, and it hasn't helped my itch. After learning to shoot out to 500 in the Corps, I have always wanted to get into the Long Range shooting circuit. I am now doing the research into either buying a used LR rig in 260 Rem, or building one from a Remington 700 SA. It will be used to learn how to shoot LR, and hopefully get into some competitions.

With that being said, I need some help. If I build it, can anyone chime in with barrel makers, twist rates, length, etc suitable for the 260? Also, would shooting long, heavy bullets or light, fast bullets work better? I would also need a gunsmith. I already have a scope or two in mind, as well as stock.

On the other hand, a member here advised me to look into a used rig, because then all the work is done. What are the things to look for in a used rig, and what should I steer away from?

Thanks all and happy holidays.

A.J.

 

[SJB358]

AJ, I believe you'll get a ton of opinions on this, but I would get a good loading set first. Without being able to tailor your own stuff, your at the mercy of 308's and 5.56's. Nothing wrong with those two, but a simple set up will allow you to build a nice rifle in one of the small 6's or 6.5's and have a super rifle to let you learn on.

If you decided on a cartridge, speccing out a rifle is fairly easy.

The guys are right, a good used rifle would be a good choice, as long as it's what you want.

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

http://www.butchsreloading.com/shop/123-rifles
Just a place to browse around and if ya had any questions Ed is a World Champion bench rest champion and can answer or build whatever ya need!

 

[ajvigs]

AJ, I believe you'll get a ton of opinions on this, but I would get a good loading set first. Without being able to tailor your own stuff, your at the mercy of 308's and 5.56's. Nothing wrong with those two, but a simple set up will allow you to build a nice rifle in one of the small 6's or 6.5's and have a super rifle to let you learn on.

If you decided on a cartridge, speccing out a rifle is fairly easy.

The guys are right, a good used rifle would be a good choice, as long as it's what you want.

The loading set is coming, I have a few things in the works and I may have found someone to teach me the art. Just waiting on a background check and a phone call, and I will be on my way

 

[Guy Miner]

Several different forms of "long range" competition:

Benchrest, 600 & 1000 yards. Dunno much about it. The fellows are MIGHTY accurate though.

Conventional Prone. Sling up. Sights or "any rifle/any sight" (meaning a scoped bull-barrel competition rifle). Usually matches are at 600 or 1000 yards though there are variations, such as "Palma" which requires 15 shots at 800, 15 at 900 and 15 at 1,000. Palma is limited to the .308 & .223 only, and iron sights only. It's not a discipline for the faint of heart!

F-Class Prone. Rest the rifle on a 'pod or a shooting rest. Originally developed for competitors who couldn't physically handle conventional prone anymore, it's quickly become a very popular form of competition.

There are also some various "practical-tactical" or "sniper" oriented matches. They're far better organized now than they were some years back and may or may not have a lot of "long range" shooting. Most are FUN! Sniper's Hide is the primary clearing house to learn where and when these matches are being held.

It's good to figure out which kind of long-range shooting you wish to enjoy, then build/buy for that. You can do most of it with a conventional bolt action rifle in a good cartridge, like the .260 or similar.

Regards, Guy

 

[ajvigs]

There are also some various "practical-tactical" or "sniper" oriented matches. They're far better organized now than they were some years back and may or may not have a lot of "long range" shooting. Most are FUN! Sniper's Hide is the primary clearing house to learn where and when these matches are being held.

THIS! Exactly what I was gearing towards. I have been lurking on Snipers Hide.

I also did find this:
http://www.nwactionworks.com/#!components/c23j7

A 700 barreled action in 260, then find a used McMillan or AICS and top it with a SWFA SS 3-15 scope (until I find a used NF). Just have to figure out barrel length, contour, twist rate, etc if I go with that.

Plenty of time to think things over, but that link I posted sure looks good to me unless a real steal used rifle pops up.

 

[Guy Miner]

And... For long-range, you want loooong, slick, high BC bullets.

WIND is the bugaboo.

Elevation is easy. Detecting, and compensating for the subtle changes in the wind is far tougher. A high BC bullet will be much less affected by wind, making the difference between a solid "10 ring" hit, and one that lands in the 9 ring, or worse... This is where the .260 & 6.5x284 have it all over the good old .308 Win cartridge. Not that excellent shooting at 600 & 1,000 yards can't be done with a .308 Win, of course it can. The .260, and similar cartridges just provide an advantage.

Don't ignore the various 6's either... Extremely light recoil, zippy, with good long-range bullets available. Some years back the little 6mmBR with 105 gr Hornady A-Max target bullets set a 1,000 yard record at the range near Missoula, Montana. Itty bitty cartridge, but awfully accurate and obviously the shooter knew his business.

I've done most of my long-range competition with a .308 Win for good reason. I give away a ballistic advantage but:

I'm shooting my SWAT/sniper rifle & ammo. Obviously it's smart for me to shoot that rifle & ammo as much as I can and master it.

The .308 offers prodigious barrel life. I was still shooting NRA "High Master" 600 yard scores with a Krieger cut-rifled 1:13 barrel that had 5,600+ rounds through it. Replaced that barrel when my X-count took a plunge. I was still getting the 10-ring, but not the X-ring so much. Really hard to do well that way... Most rifle cartridges won't hold with the .308 for barrel life, but they'll out-shoot it in the wind at 600 - 1000 yards. The .308 is not a particularly good 1000 yard cartridge.

Regards, Guy

 

[Guy Miner]

I don't know anything about NW Action Works. Never heard of them, but then again, I'm not up on the latest trends either.

A whole bunch of competent gunsmiths can blueprint a Rem 700 action (or a clone) and screw on a high quality match barrel, producing a very accurate, reliable long-range rifle. It's a pretty easy action to work over. There's a reason it's so doggone popular with the "sniper" crowd.

BTW - don't laugh too hard when some guy who never served and hasn't done a pushup in 30 years wins the match... They're not real snipers, but they do shoot good, real good. You'll also get some real military & police competitors and will meet some Great Guys & Gals. Most long-range shooters are terrific people, very willing to help a newby.

Personally, I'd go to R-Bros if I was getting into that field of competition. I've seen and shot their rifles. Oh my goodness... Link: http://rbrosrifles.com/

George Gardner / GA Precision is an icon in the field. His rifles are top notch: http://www.gaprecision.net/

My "Green Machine" pre-dates most of the guys who are building for competition now. I just keep having new barrels screwed onto it. And it lacks all the latest bells & whistles. But it's my rifle and we're comfortable together. Been a long time since I actually won anything with it though. I think the nut behind the trigger may be slipping a bit...

Semper Fi, Guy

 

[BK]

And... For long-range, you want loooong, slick, high BC bullets.

For this very reason, would lean more towards the 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47 Lapua... With those long bullets, in a Remington action you are probably going to start running into magazine length issues with a .260.

Also, I wouldn't jump on a Remington action immediately. There are a ton of custom actions I would check out first... One that immediately springs to mind is Defiance, but there's others...

 

[Vince]

As I was reading your post I was thinking, "6.5 of some sort."

I like BK's suggestion of the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[gerry]

Look at a Savage mine in 260 Rem has been really good. I can seat bullets out to about 2.90 in my gun and still fit the magazine. The Creedmore will be good too. Those are the only two I would consider of the smaller 6.5's both are readily available when it comes to brass and ammo especially the 260 Rem. I'm a big Remington fan and can see the appeal of making one on a Rem 700. Whatever you do make sure in has a 1 in 8 twist so you can handle the full range on 6.5mm bullets.

 

[ajvigs]

I am curious as to the magazine length issue if I choose to run a 700 SA and the long heavy bullets out of the 260 case

 

[SJB358]

I am curious as to the magazine length issue if I choose to run a 700 SA and the long heavy bullets out of the 260 case

2.8" doesn't leave much room for the sleek 130-140 bullets AJ. Hence the 6.5CM gives you more space for bullet seating.. The awesome little 6.5 Lapua is another that will give about everything you want and still give you some seating freedom..

 

[ajvigs]

I am curious as to the magazine length issue if I choose to run a 700 SA and the long heavy bullets out of the 260 case

2.8" doesn't leave much room for the sleek 130-140 bullets AJ. Hence the 6.5CM gives you more space for bullet seating.. The awesome little 6.5 Lapua is another that will give about everything you want and still give you some seating freedom..

Scotty (and others) do you think I would be better off then running the 6.5x47? Brass is about the same as the 260. Or would a different action give me more room to play with the length?

 

[IdahoCTD]

The 6.5x47 isn't off of the .260 by much and would fit into a SA much easier. The 130gr Bergers at 2900-2950fps will get it done a long ways off. I would do it over some of the others for the small primers/flash holes and Lapua brass. A 6x47 is pretty popular as well and would work quite well for you too. About half of the local guys shoot 6x47's for 600 and 1000yd benchrest.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Yes I'd go the 6.5X47 if not go to a long action and go with the 6.5X55. They have been winning matches with the old Swede for decades. And besides it would be a sweet hunting rifle as well!!

 

[257 Ackley]

USMC89 shoots a 6X47 Lapua for most of his matches that are similar to what you want to do. Match that caliber up with the 105 berger hybrid and you have a combo that is tough to beat. I shoot 600 and 1000 yard matches with a 6BR norma and a 6BRX using the same bullet. Both use the same Lapua case.

Barrel twist- 1 in 8
Barrel maker- lots of good choices, especially cut rifled barrels from Bartlein, kreiger and brux
If you are planning on shooting tactical matches, you have to move through the course with your kit, so you don't want to get a taper much heavier than medium palma. A lot of the guys are now running shorter barrels than you would see used for the f-class and sling shooters that only carry their kit to a firing line to shoot. I think Jeff is running a 22" barrel on his 6X47 now.

Jewell trigger

Spend the extra $ and buy a custom action rather than blue-printing a remmy. Pierce engineering makes a great action for around $900. You will almost spend that much for a blue-printed remmy and than you still need to bush the firing pin and put a different bolt handle on it.

 

[ajvigs]

Thanks once again all. After some more thinking and lurking, I think I am looking into:
6.5x47 lapua
Defiance or Pierce SA
Jewell trigger
Benchmark or Kreiger 1 in 8 twist light or medium palma 1 in 8 twist, 22"or 24"
mcmillan stock set up for AI mags

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

Sounds like a plan now for the optic decision :mrgreen: another conundrum to deal with :shock:
I have been in the same pickle but I think I have mine figured out ? I think :grin:

 

[ajvigs]

Sounds like a plan now for the optic decision :mrgreen: another conundrum to deal with :shock:
I have been in the same pickle but I think I have mine figured out ? I think :grin:

Please dont go there, this is already making my head spin in dollar signs and various other tangibles :?

I would ultimately want to run a FFP Mil/Mil NF, but I could get by with one of the SWFA's until that happens. I really want to luck into a stupid deal on a used rig, as they are by far the best bet of getting what I want without spending a lot. Id rather have to spend the money on a new barrel then go whole hog on a $3000+ rig