Need a long range bullet

[solaman]

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I've just joined a new hunting club and it is possable to take a 4 or 500 yard shoot. The gun-Remington model 721 .270 win
The load in currently shooting is 150 Gr. Nosler Partition. Powder-imr4350, Brass- any kind trimmed to length, primer cci mag
Shoots one inch groups at 100 yards.

What I bascially want to do is shoot the same load but with a different bullet. I know that there is a lot of new bullets out there, but I want something that is time proven to kill white tails .

 

[JD338]

solaman,

Switch to the 150 gr BT. This bullet has a BC of 496 and will give yoou the terminal performance on WT deer to 500 yds.

Regards,

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

That or 140 AB's.

 

[roysclockgun]

Solaman wrote: "What I bascially want to do is shoot the same load but with a different bullet. I know that there is a lot of new bullets out there, but I want something that is time proven to kill white tails ."

The genuine attributes of the .270Win on whitetails are realized using a 130gr bullet, especially at the ranges in which you are interested. Going from a 150gr bullet to 130gr will give a chance to pick up higher MV, which translates into flatter shooting. I used 55gr of IMR4350 pushing a 130gr bullet, to achieve 3205fps MV. That will get you a very flat trajectory. Zero at 300yds.

 

[Reloder28]

What is not long-range or time-proven about the combination you are currently using?

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Actually for LR shooting, trajectory means zilch. If one has a scope set up with clicks, you simply range and dial up. Ones main concern at LR should be accuracy, energy, retained velocityk, and wind deflection. Just something one learns from actually shooting and practicing out to 1150 yards regularly.

 

[jbdre]

Actually, 400-500 is not THAT far. Trajectory way out there is only part of the problem, energy delivery is something else. A heavy for caliber bullet retains velocity better and thus hits harder when it arrives on target. A 140 AccuBond might be your best choice in a 270 Winchester. I suggest checking ballistic tables to see what remaining velocity and energy will be for your load at 400-500 with different bullet weights.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Agreed with the above poster. I think the better 3 bullets for a long range shot out of a .270 would be either the 140g sst, 140g btip, or the 150g btip. I'm not a big fan of bonded bullets for deer. I dont believe one needs them. Also, at longer ranges where the velocity has slowed down, the btips start to really shine. There accuracy and expansion way out there is second to none in my book. So have you decided on a new bullet??

 

[.260 Handgun]

Just a reality check. 400 yards is a long shot unless you plan on carrying you're shooting bench with you into the field. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you could hit an animal that was further out, but I doubt that you could garantee that you could hit the heart/lungs with every shot. I read 25-06 post on a coyote @250 yards. Hit him running on the forth shot and had to track him for 1.5 miles before he lost the blood trail. Thats fine for a coyote, but I would never do that to an animal I intended to eat. I'm sure he wouldn't do that to a deer either. I'm just saying don't shoot unless you know without a doubt that you can take the game cleanly. You make be able to hit a milk jug at 1150 yards once every 4 shots (if that). But thats not good enough for the type of hunting that I like to do.

As far as bullets, I'd go with the 140 AccuBond. Same BC as the 150 Btip, but greater range. It opens up at the same velocity, but you'll have more range since it starts out around 100 ft/s faster. Plus it will hold up if a deer stumbles to within 20 feet of your spot. Which is probably more likely than taking a deer at 1150 yards!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I never said I could hit milk jugs at 1150 yars. I dont practice on jugs that far. I shoot at a 14" steel gong which is the size of an elks vitals plus his shoulder. I can hit it about 2 of 3, or 3 of 4, most the time. Thats not to say I would take a shot at 1150 because my rangefinder only goes to 800 yards. But it makes a 500-600 yard shot EASY. I can hit milk jugs at 525 yards with my 25-06 and 300 rum 9 out of 10 times. When I do miss, its just maybe 1-2 inches to the left or right, due to slight wind shift, thats it. Still would drop that deer, let alone a bigger target at elk. the idea is to shoot and practice farther then you intend to shoot at an animal. Which is exactly what I do. I practice a lot at 525, 800, and 1150, that makes the 500-600 yard shot on deer or elk, quite simple. harris bi-pod is the bench in the field. Get one and use it. Practice.

 

[.260 Handgun]

Just ran some figures through my ballistics program. If you're using a 300 RUM your're probably getting 3200 ft/s with a 180 grain bullet. If you're using a ballistic tip with a BC of .507, the numbers my program spits out at 1150 yards is 1264 ft/s and 638 ft-lbs of energy. If you can hit the animal, the bullet goes through without expanding. Unless you have a direct hit on heart, spinal cord, or brain the deer doesn't go down. Even if you hit it in the lungs, it probably wouldn't go down unless you hit a major vessel. Likely senario, the deer dies two weeks later from infection.

Shooting at the range, or from the same spot everytime does not accuratley simulate field conditions. Go out to some public hunting land, or wherever you hunt, and take only what you would normally take to hunt with. Range a spot 500 yards away. Walk over and sit down a milk jug. Walk back and shoot only one shot. Then set up a jug down hill 500 yards away and take one shot. Then shoot uphill. Come back the next day when it's 20 degrees warmer and do the same thing. Come back the day after when the wind is blowing 20 miles an hour. If you didn't hit the jug everytime, with only one shot, then you shouldn't shoot a deer at that range. Anything less and your not respecting your prey.

 

[roysclockgun]

.260Hanggun wrote: "...Shooting at the range, or from the same spot everytime does not accuratley simulate field conditions. Go out to some public hunting land, or wherever you hunt, and take only what you would normally take to hunt with. Range a spot 500 yards away. Walk over and sit down a milk jug. Walk back and shoot only one shot. Then set up a jug down hill 500 yards away and take one shot. Then shoot uphill. Come back the next day when it's 20 degrees warmer and do the same thing. Come back the day after when the wind is blowing 20 miles an hour. If you didn't hit the jug everytime, with only one shot, then you shouldn't shoot a deer at that range. Anything less and your not respecting your prey."

Halleluhah!!! I was trying to say that in earlier posts, but .260Handgun hit the nail! Can we all spell "irresponsible", when it comes to long range shooting contests, using live game animals for our targets? Someone trying to show what great long range shots they are on deer, elk or any other game animal, only demonstrates their immaturity. I show all respect to those who can hit long range targets made of milk jugs, paper or metal, but when it comes to field shooting at those distances, we need to address how much we genuinely respect the animal. And please, do not defend those long shots by quoting how many hunters miss game at shorter ranges. That is the "apples to oranges" defense, which will never fly. Game animals deserve to be hunted, not sniped as if they were prairie dog varmints.

 

[Tom1911]

roy,

Game animals deserve to be hunted, not sniped as if they were prairie dog varmints.

It could not have be better written!

 

[jbdre]

I don't want to get into a pissing contest over long range shooting but there are many people who make long shots on a regular basis. If you can't or don't want to take a long shot just don't. However, don't kid yourself about those shots not being possible or being irresponsible just belong they are long. I know plenty of people that shouldn't shoot beyond 100 yards much less further. Its not the distance but the ability of the shooter - period. Hunt any way you want to but don't be so quick to denounce those who hunt differently. Different ways of hunting require different skill sets. One method is not necessarily better than any other.

 

[roysclockgun]

jbdre wrote: "......Hunt any way you want to but don't be so quick to denounce those who hunt differently. Different ways of hunting require different skill sets. One method is not necessarily better than any other."

Where this all began, was from the young man claiming to regularly shoot deer at 800 YARDS, after practicing on his 14" gong at 1150 yards! I am not saying that shooting deer at 500 yards is bad thing, or even 600 yards, provided the shooter is set up and prepared to make such a shot. But stretching that range to 800 yards is irresponsible for two reasons: (1) Under field conditions an 800 yard shot at noble game, such as deer is simply too chancy, given that the shooter has no opportunity to take ranging shots, as he would when firing on targets at a shooting range. (2) Animals 800 yards distant, have no way of using their instincts and natural abilities to escape. They would have no way of even knowing that the shooter is in place and ready to kill them. Therefore, they are then reduced to being someone's live sniping target, but to what end? Is an elk simply somebody's ego trip to prove that they have built up sniping skills? Taking 800 yard shots at game demonstrates no hunting skills, but only long range sniping skills. Anyone with a four wheel drive vehicle can drive around and spot animals at rest at 800 yards. Is that now considered to be hunting? Can shooting game at 800 yards be called "fair chase" hunting?

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Elk and bears are the only aniamls I would take a shot at 800 yards because there so much bigger target. Deer, I limit myself to 600 yards. I might have said in a post for example that it doesn't matter how far which one chooses to shoot. Its his own ability. I"ll continue to stand by my posts and say I practice at 1150 yarsd with my 300 RUM, that way when an ELK or BEAR stands out up and out to 800 yards, he will go down. Since deer are at least 6" less of an overall vital zone, my range on them is a maximum of 600 yards. Most you still obviously dont know what it takes to shoot that long distance. Like I said before, the man behind the trigger has a lot more to do with it then anything, all else being equal.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

260 handgun

You need to be a little more openminded in my opinion. Reloading books are used as a GUIDE. I dont use 180g bulelts for LR shooting. I use a minimum of a 200g AB, and usually I use a 210g VLD with BC of .640, or the 220g SMK with BC of .629. Those bullets at 3000fps, have more energy and velocity at 1150 yards considerably then a little wimpy 180g btip. My elk thumper is a 200g AB. With 95g retumbo, I can achieve a cronographed velocity of 3225fps, with nice groups to boot. WIth a advertised BC of .588. THis load gives me 1150 lbs, and 1600fps. In case you dont know, AB's and btips will expand as low as 1400fps. Thats 200fps above. 1150 lbs is more then enough to still break an elks shoulderblade, let alone do some massive damage to lungs. I never said I would shoot at 1150 yards on an elk, did I?? No I did not. I practice at 1150, that way when an elk shows up at a maximum of 800, which I so happen to practice at, he will be in serious trouble. This load at 800 yards generates 2029fps, and 1829 lbs. You tell me an elk is gonna live through a 200g AB having that kinda power and thats just silly. Thats more then enough with a shoulder shot, to instantly anchor an elk, and watch him drop and roll down the canyon. Anyways, an elks total vitals is at least 12". Its safe to say, I can easily hold a 12" group at 800 yards, when my loads usually shoot 4-5 inches at that distance. Do I still have to explain the same thing I've been explaining the whole time. Its the guy with the right equipment, knowledge and practice that are able to make these shots. Obviously if your missing 1 of them, your not going to be successfull. And for the record, yes I have missed some shots at longer ranges, but I have yet wound anything. ITs not any worse then the idiot who wounds a standing deer at 200 yards and blast him in the jaw, ass, or guts. No difference whatsoever. You guys continue making 300 yard shots, and I'll continue practicing at Longer ranges, that way when the shot does present itself, at least Ill be ready. For the record, the longest big game animal I've shot was 604 yards being a buck deer with my 25-06. 115g btip through the shoulders and he was down within 20 yards. I have 2 shots on elk past 500, 1 being 512 and the other 525, both were dropped dead after 1st shot. The longest bear I've shot was 450 yards again with a 25-06 and 115g btip. However, I practice at 1150 and 800, and 525, very regularly to become confident enough that if an elk steps out at 800 I'll be ready, just as a deer steps out to 600, i'll be ready. If you guys dont like it, to bad. You can all hutn with a flintlock like the very oldtimers, and to hell with all the new equipment. Stalk within a 100 yards and kill your game. I will repeat once again though, everybody on here knows the average joe wounds thousands compared to the marksmen who places his shot with precision and puts thousand rounds a year, compared to a box of shells, your not fooling me. I've seen it happen to many times. I know what it takes to shoot LR, and many dont have what it takes. Those are the idiots. WHen you have all the right stuff and practice farther then you intend to actually shoot, it actually is easy. When you have a cartridge that reaches that game with authority, that helps a little to. You all can defend your way of hunting, I'll continue to defend my way of hunting.

 

[Jon A]

But stretching that range to 800 yards is irresponsible for two reasons: (1) Under field conditions an 800 yard shot at noble game, such as deer is simply too chancy,

But when somebody blasts away at a deer running through the brush at less than 100 yds it's not "chancy" at all, eh? Have you ever shot at a running animal? Do you condemn those who do the same way? Or are you and do you think the average guy who does it is so good that a running shot isn't "chancy" at all?

(2) Animals 800 yards distant, have no way of using their instincts and natural abilities to escape.

But at 799 yards they'll spot you in a heartbeat, right? What about 699? You've never scared a deer away from more than 1/2 mile away? The big bucks in your area must not be too smart if that's never happened to you. Putting a distance on their senses is absurd because it varies with the situation.

How about sitting in a treestand? I shot my last buck at less than 50 yds from a treestand (the first time I had done that). Of all the whitetail bucks I've ever gotten, it felt the least like "hunting" of any of them. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Not "sniping" but "ambushing." I've had more "real hunts" than I can count that ended with a shot many times that distance. The stand is elevated. Their "natural senses" don't tell them to look up into the treebranches for danger. I fail to see how anybody could call this "hunting" but say stalking a deer to within some much longer range when spotted from afar is not.

It's all a simple case of self-rightous "that's not the way I do it so it must be wrong" bullshit. If your concern is truley for the wellbeing of the animals, not wanting to see wounded animals get away, try focusing on preaching to the 1-box a year "hunters" (who don't give a damn enough to read boards like this, much less practice thousands of rounds a year) who do their best WWIII impressions everytime they see fur, close or far but always seem to walk back to their trucks emptyhanded. If you have ever hunted on public land or where there's public access, you'll know these types outnumber the "sniper" types who practice thousands of rounds a year about 1000 to one. Who do you think wounds more animals? If that's what your concern is, take your preaching to those who make up the vast majority of the problem so it might do some good.

In case you're wondering, the last time I pulled the trigger more than once to fill a tag was 1990. Yeah, people like me are the problem..... :roll:

 

[roysclockgun]

Jon A wrote: "....Who do you think wounds more animals? If that's what your concern is, take your preaching to those who make up the vast majority of the problem so it might do some good. "

Jon, you need to not use gutter language to make your points. Most here disagree on one point or another, but keep their language out of the barnyard. Please?
I understand your well thought out logic Jon. Many hunters wound deer at close range, therefore you feel that any long shot is justified, because others who shoot close also wound game. Points made to cover risky behavior are not valid when the only excuse is to site other risky behavior. I don't know if you read my posts or those of others, but turning deer or elk into long range varmint targets is not something with which I can agree. While your long range shooting of game animals may be legal, something is lost when you take up the mantle of long range sniper. In your mind, are you really convinced that long range shooting of game proves your hunting prowess? Again, I have utmost respect for your ability to hit targets at long range. Doing so demonstrates marksman skill, dedication and talent. That said, do you get some extra gratification by shooting a game animal who has no idea that you are even in the county?
On what sort of hunt is game alerted at 800 yards distance? I have hunted several states, east and west, plus Australia, Canada and Mexico. Elk or deer are not alerted by being glassed from 500 plus yards, unless the hunter makes one terrific racket and even then, animals have a margin of distance that makes them feel secure. If you glass game at long distance, do you think, "He will not even know what hit him?" If so, you are correct.
How do you define, "Fair chase hunt."? Why not call in an air stike or artillery fire on the game? It takes talent to be able to do that.

 

[Jon A]

Points made to cover risky behavior are not valid when the only excuse is to site other risky behavior.

The fact that I haven't missed nor even needed a "finisher" in over 15 years should tell you my style of hunting is not exactly "risky behavior."

That said, do you get some extra gratification by shooting a game animal who has no idea that you are even in the county?

I got absolutely no gratification shooting that last buck at 40-something yards who had no idea I was even in the county. Tell me, do you get more gratification if you stand up and yell really loud, "Hey deer! Here I am! You better run because I'm going to shoot!" and shoot them on the run? If you've done a proper stalking job, be the yardage 20 or 2000 the deer has no idea you're there unless you screw up. My gratification comes from many different factors that happen during the hunt. The range at which the shot was taken isn't high on the list. "Sneeking" to within 400 yds in open country can be more challenging than sneeking to within 15 in thick cover.

On what sort of hunt is game alerted at 800 yards distance?

Any hunt in open country where there's wind or where you're skylined in your approach or where they're pressured enough by hunting that they will take off upon seeing the tiniest spot of blaze orange in the distance.... If you've never hunted animals that can spot you and make tracks from this distance you must know of some super-secret wonderful hunting grounds.