New 338 Win Mag - load advice

[bobnob]

Hello again folks.

I have lucked into a secondhand Vanguard S1 in 338WM. Comes with dies, cases, and some bullets.

The bullets are the 225 SST variety. I intend to give them a run with H4350/Ar2209. I won't be chasing top speeds, mainly a good accurate load that I can shoot out to about 300y. Should be the goods on the pigs. Overkill of course but the main purpose of the rifle is to go after sambar deer which can be found not too far from my new home. Maybe water buffalo at some stage as well.

Any experience with this combo?

I may ultimately try the 225 AccuBond too. With the AB I might well chase a little more velocity than with the SST. I feel a bonded bullet would be prudent on the buffalo.

If anyone felt inclined to run a Quickload on 225g bullets with Ar2209/H4350 I would be most grateful.

- Bob

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet             : .338, 225, Nosler AccuBond 54357
Useable Case Capaci: 72.491 grain H2O = 4.707 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : ADI AR 2209

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   85    56.80   2233    2492   30980   7794     87.0    1.565
-18.0   88    58.22   2291    2621   33108   8063     88.4    1.524
-16.0   90    59.64   2348    2755   35386   8325     89.7    1.483
-14.0   92    61.06   2406    2893   37828   8580     91.0    1.439
-12.0   94    62.48   2465    3035   40449   8826     92.1    1.395
-10.0   96    63.90   2523    3181   43266   9062     93.3    1.351
-08.0   98    65.32   2582    3331   46296   9288     94.3    1.310
-06.0  100    66.74   2641    3485   49559   9501     95.3    1.269
-04.0  103    68.16   2700    3643   53076   9702     96.1    1.230  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  105    69.58   2760    3805   56874   9888     96.9    1.193  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  107    71.00   2819    3971   60981  10059     97.7    1.156  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  109    72.42   2879    4140   65430  10214     98.3    1.121  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  111    73.84   2938    4313   70258  10351     98.8    1.087  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  113    75.26   2998    4490   75508  10470     99.2    1.054  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  115    76.68   3057    4670   81232  10568     99.6    1.022  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  118    78.10   3117    4854   87485  10646     99.8    0.991  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    107    71.00   2955    4363   73156   9900    100.0    1.073  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    107    71.00   2638    3476   50093   9677     91.0    1.263

Cartridge          : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet             : .338, 225, Hornady SST InterLock 33202
Useable Case Capaci: 72.564 grain H2O = 4.711 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : ADI AR 2209

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   86    56.96   2239    2504   31159   7822     87.1    1.562
-18.0   88    58.38   2296    2634   33304   8091     88.5    1.520
-16.0   90    59.81   2354    2769   35601   8353     89.8    1.479
-14.0   92    61.23   2412    2908   38064   8607     91.1    1.435
-12.0   94    62.66   2471    3050   40708   8853     92.3    1.391
-10.0   96    64.08   2530    3197   43549   9089     93.4    1.348
-08.0   98    65.50   2589    3348   46607   9314     94.4    1.306
-06.0  101    66.93   2648    3503   49900   9527     95.4    1.266
-04.0  103    68.35   2707    3662   53450   9727     96.2    1.227  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  105    69.78   2767    3824   57287   9912     97.0    1.189  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  107    71.20   2826    3991   61433  10081     97.7    1.153  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  109    72.62   2886    4161   65929  10235     98.3    1.118  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  111    74.05   2946    4335   70811  10370     98.9    1.083  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  113    75.47   3005    4512   76118  10486     99.3    1.051  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  116    76.90   3065    4693   81909  10583     99.6    1.019  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  118    78.32   3125    4878   88237  10659     99.8    0.988  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    107    71.20   2962    4383   73708   9911    100.0    1.070  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    107    71.20   2645    3495   50458   9708     91.2    1.259

 

[bobnob]

Thanks Doc. When you come out here for a holiday I will shout you a beer and let you shoot all my modest collection of rifles!

 

[R Flowers]

My friends and I messed with the SST bullets in several calibers and found them to be somewhat too fragile for use on pigs, too many instances of the bullets blowing up on pigs shoulders.

I personally had gone to the 225 grain Nosler Partition for all my .338 Win Mag load. That is, till the CA government decided I can't use that bullet any more. Now I shoot 210 Barnes X bullets in my 338 Win Mag. That 225 Partition has worked well on any number of pigs and a few bull elk.

I highly recommend the 225 Partition when loaded over a near max load of H 4350 and sparked by a Fed 215M primer.

 

[SJB358]

I've had great accuracy with the 225 SSTs and RL19 but never taken anything with them. I would think just about any 338 bullet and 4350 should work fairly well. I don't think you'll have too much trouble finding something accurate. Haven't found most 338 Win Mags to be real picky when fed something in the 4350 range and a good 200-250 grain bullet.

 

[JD338]

In addition to IMR/H4350, RL19 and RL22 might Be a couple of additional choices.

JD338

 

[Vince]

I'm using IMR 4350 and 250 Grain Hornady SP's right now.
Still in the load work-up process but so far I've got a load running near Max that is 7/8" and I think it'll get a lot tighter with some minor tweaking. You may find that groups get tighter the closer you get to Max. I know I did in both my .300 and .338 Win Mags.

 

[bobnob]

Thanks to all there.

It will be interesting to see how the SSTs go. I have had good success on pigs with 150g SSTs in my 270 Win. I would imagine the 338 version in 225g would be more heavily built? Time will tell. If I can put together a decent load I have a week of hog busting coming in March where I should get the chance to try them out.

If I get after buffalo I would certainly be looking to an AccuBond or Partition. I am not a regular user of all copper bullets.

I would really like to test the 225 Deep Curls, but no shops here seem to have the danged things! I saw a very encouraging post on that bullet elsewhere on this site. Anyway plenty of other options. The Interbond is another too I suppose.

 

[bobnob]

Just thought I would update this thread as I have been able to do some testing.

I chronied some test loads today:

338 WM, WW brass, Fed Mag primer, 225g Hdy SST, 67.5g Ar2209 (H4350). OAL was with the cannelure at the case mouth.

Based on the QL and load manuals I anticipated about 2700fps or thereabouts. 12 of these averaged at 2765fps with low variance shot to shot.

Best 3 shot group (two the same size actually) was 40mm at 105 metres. I reckon that to be about 1.4moa or a little better which I am happy with considering I was using my standard over-the-tailgate-of-the-truck benchrest.

To be honest I did start to know I had been shooting after 12 of those and another 10 from my 30-06 shooting 180 grainers at 2770fps. This is a new rifle and calibre to me however and I wasn't set up as comfortable as I might ordinarily be.


Anyway thanks for the help above. I am going to tinker for better accuracy but only for fun. I feel this rifle has a little more to give at this early stage.

 

[JD338]

I agree with Randy, the 225 gr PT would make for an excellent all around bullet in the 338 Win Mag.
Here are some recovered bullets from a 338 RUM at 3100 fps but it will give you an idea of bullet performance.

JD338

 

[bobnob]

JD, thanks mate.

The 200 and 300y samples above would be quite applicable to my 338 though at closer range. No doubt about those NPTs.

Thinkin' that the 210 NPT would be about as good as it gets.

Ta.

 

[SJB358]

Jim and Joel continually make me eat crow with this bullet. It is awesome in the Win Mag. Penetration is very good as well. Took me awhile to come around to it but oh man it's a great bullet. Also, the 200AB is very accurate in my rifle as well. Haven't taken any animals with it but I have complete confidence it'd work fine with anything i'd hunt.

 

[OU812]

I've always like H4831 in the 338 win mag with either 250 or 225 grain bullets.

 

[JD338]

IMHO, the 210 gr PT is the best bullet in the 338 Win Mag for everything from mice to moose. The BC is pretty decent at .400 and at 3000 fps it will hit hard and penetrate way more than it should.

JD338

 

[bobnob]

Ok time for an update.

Honesty time: The rifle and extra recoil took some getting used to. I don't mind admitting it. I was copping the odd whack with the scope and this adversely affected the consistency of my shooting for groups.

After a bit of shooting with slightly milder loads (225g bullets around 2650fps) I have started to shoot the rifle a good bit better and its turning in some decent results.

Went out today to my new private range (sorry I just love saying that!) and shot a 3 shot group at 120y at 30mm - right on 1 moa - and a 5 shot group at 35mm or right about 1.15 moa.

Quite happy with this considering there was a swirling 20kmh wind with gusts to 30kmh. Also gaining the confidence to press on now.

Thinking the 210NPT might be a good compromise for recoil with full power loads with maybe the 215g Sierras for practice. Still have a few SST 225 grainers to burn through so I am going to experiment a bit probably with more H4350.

Note: The photo seems to indicate the load was 64g of AR2207 but that's just my scrawly handwriting; it is meant to say AR2209 which is H4350 - so don't try stuffing 64g of AR2207 which is H4198 into your 338 unless you want a big surprise.

 

[SJB358]

Great shooting Bob. Nothing wrong with shooting reduced loads to get used to the rifle at all. I actually think 250's at 2700 are an easier recoil than 210's at 3000. The 210 load is snappy while the 250 load just feels like a longer big push.

 

[JD338]

Nice shooting Bob.
Keep your eyes open for Nosler 200 gr BST seconds. A great bullet for hunting and target shooting.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Bob, another load you may wanna look at is the 200's or 210's using Varget (or the AR equivalent). Should be an easy recoiling load and also have plenty of reach. I ran some 210 PT's using RL15 and accuracy was excellent with the speeds in the 2800's. Recoil was fairly gentle as well.

Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 200, Nosler AccuBond 56382
Useable Case Capaci: 74.992 grain H2O = 4.869 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 89 59.40 2678 3185 46886 8530 98.6 1.254
-09.0 90 60.06 2704 3247 48308 8608 98.8 1.237
-08.0 91 60.72 2730 3310 49772 8683 99.0 1.221
-07.0 92 61.38 2756 3374 51278 8755 99.2 1.204
-06.0 93 62.04 2782 3438 52829 8824 99.4 1.188
-05.0 94 62.70 2808 3502 54425 8891 99.5 1.172
-04.0 95 63.36 2834 3566 56067 8954 99.7 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 96 64.02 2859 3631 57759 9014 99.8 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 64.68 2885 3696 59500 9071 99.8 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 98 65.34 2910 3762 61294 9125 99.9 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 66.00 2936 3828 63141 9175 100.0 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 100 66.66 2961 3894 65044 9223 100.0 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 101 67.32 2986 3960 67005 9266 100.0 1.070 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 102 67.98 3011 4027 69025 9308 100.0 1.056 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 68.64 3036 4093 71108 9350 100.0 1.043 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 104 69.30 3061 4160 73255 9390 100.0 1.029 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 66.00 3028 4073 73374 8865 100.0 1.032 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 66.00 2800 3481 52981 9251 97.3 1.184


Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 210, Nosler PART SP 16337
Useable Case Capaci: 77.827 grain H2O = 5.053 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 86 59.85 2623 3207 46396 8734 99.1 1.285
-09.0 87 60.52 2648 3269 47768 8811 99.2 1.268
-08.0 88 61.18 2673 3331 49177 8884 99.4 1.251
-07.0 89 61.85 2698 3394 50626 8955 99.5 1.235
-06.0 90 62.51 2723 3457 52114 9023 99.7 1.219
-05.0 91 63.18 2747 3520 53645 9088 99.8 1.203
-04.0 92 63.84 2772 3583 55218 9150 99.9 1.187
-03.0 93 64.51 2797 3647 56835 9209 99.9 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 94 65.17 2821 3711 58497 9264 100.0 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 95 65.84 2845 3775 60207 9317 100.0 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 66.50 2869 3839 61965 9366 100.0 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 97 67.17 2893 3904 63773 9413 100.0 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 98 67.83 2917 3969 65634 9460 100.0 1.099 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 99 68.50 2941 4034 67547 9507 100.0 1.086 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 100 69.16 2965 4099 69517 9553 100.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 101 69.83 2989 4165 71543 9598 100.0 1.059 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 66.50 2956 4073 71776 9065 100.0 1.061 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 66.50 2742 3505 52171 9503 98.0 1.215

Either of those loads would tackle large or small stuff pretty well, and again, you can load them to the speed your comfortable with. The 200 grain AB is very accurate in my rifle. One of these Fall's I plan on running them again. I used them a couple years ago, but there wasn't any elk to kill.

 

[DrMike]

That is looking pretty good, Bob. There is nothing shabby about the 210 grain Partition at speed from your 338 Win Mag.

 

[bobnob]

Thanks guys. Scotty Varget is Ar2208 here and I have plenty on hand for my 308 so that will definitely get a run.

A bit more practice and to settle on a load, and the Vanguard will be taken on a run on the pigs later in the year. Should do the trick!