Quick question, with new brass (winchester) do you need to resize the brass before loading or just start loading. I am gonna try to workl up a load using 165 AB with IMR 4350 for a .300WSM. I have some remington brass already primed, sized, so I will use those to work my loads for testing, they have about four fires on them but are in good shape.
new brass
- Thread starter chipper
- Start date
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,180
- 8,462
I like to run new brass through the sizing die just to square up the case neck and mouth.
JD338
JD338
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,318
- 5,991
Chipper,
I use an expander mandrel to true the necks on new brass. Almost inevitably, some brass will show necks that are dented and which require truing. An expander mandrel addresses this deficit. You can accomplish the same thing by running the expander ball through the neck without full length sizing.
I use an expander mandrel to true the necks on new brass. Almost inevitably, some brass will show necks that are dented and which require truing. An expander mandrel addresses this deficit. You can accomplish the same thing by running the expander ball through the neck without full length sizing.
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
Neck size, chamfer and load.Rick.
I've used alot of new winchester brass.
I always:
neck size
trim (mostly just to square the mouth, and it makes them all the same length)
de-bur inside and out side. (obviously after trimming)
primer pocket uniform
flashhole de-bur (I've found some nasty dingleberries inside)
depending on the rifle:
neck turn
weight sort
I now stricktly use Nosler brass to avoid all that work :lol:
I always:
neck size
trim (mostly just to square the mouth, and it makes them all the same length)
de-bur inside and out side. (obviously after trimming)
primer pocket uniform
flashhole de-bur (I've found some nasty dingleberries inside)
depending on the rifle:
neck turn
weight sort
I now stricktly use Nosler brass to avoid all that work :lol:
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,279
- 2,993
What Jim said. Every time. This is when a Lee Collet die comes in handy!
Powerstroke
Handloader
- Feb 24, 2006
- 1,799
- 58
*
Ditto -
Have yet to fire a new case without some prep work ( short of Nosler - and they get preped after the first firing )
Ditto -
Have yet to fire a new case without some prep work ( short of Nosler - and they get preped after the first firing )
Yup, The quality of bulk new brass leaves a little to be desired(I have not tried the Nosler brass yet but if the quality of the Win brass gets any worse that is where I am going). Lots of dented and out of round mouths, etc. At a minimum I run them through a parsial resize to clean up the necks, debur, check length. I also chamber each loaded hunting round just to make sure that it will function when I need it to. Doesn't happen a lot but occationally you will get one that for what ever reason it will not want to chamber. This is very important if you are partial resizing.
Be careful about mixing Winchester and Remington brass. Remington brass is thicker. A stout load that is fine in the Winchester cases maybe excessive in the Remington brass going the other way may not cause a problem but I would always work the load up just to be safe. I know it is a pain but not working up a load when changes are made is a short cut that can get you into lots of trouble.
Be careful about mixing Winchester and Remington brass. Remington brass is thicker. A stout load that is fine in the Winchester cases maybe excessive in the Remington brass going the other way may not cause a problem but I would always work the load up just to be safe. I know it is a pain but not working up a load when changes are made is a short cut that can get you into lots of trouble.
6mm Remington
Ammo Smith
- Feb 27, 2006
- 5,240
- 522
As we all have noted, there are sometimes some dents in case mouth on new cartridges, and the tops of the cases are rough and are not even. You can look at top of the case from the side. My trick for getting the dents out and for squaring everything up is to just trim the cases to the minimum case length as called for the he loading books. The case trimming pilot has a gentle taper to it, and it is just slightly smaller than the dimensions of a new or resized case. By inserting the pilot into the neck while turning the trimmer and using just slight pressure to push the cutters into the case neck just as you normally would, the small dents will disappear and in trimming the cases up you have also squared the necks up at the same time and made them all the same length. Chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouth, true up the primer pocket, and you are ready to go. I have not personally seen the need to take the case and run it in a sizing die as this works pretty well. I have not seen one, but I'm sure one will come down the pipe that will have enough of a dented case mouth that this will not work, but I have not yet run into one like that yet. Seems to me that this would save one step some folks are doing and make things a bit quicker for them. It works for me anyway.
6MM,
you're right-on with your thinkin' about case necks.
My problen lately has been new Winchester brass NOT fitting
into the shell-holder thats made for that cartridge. Some lots of brass
run as high as 20% mortality rate. I can't force the new brass into the
shell-holder using hand -pressure. There's no need here to use a bigger hammer!
The problem is not the rim diameter, it's the recess just above the rim.
The no-gos run about 0.030" too large.
I'll have a talk with the store-owner, and report on it later.
Jim
you're right-on with your thinkin' about case necks.
My problen lately has been new Winchester brass NOT fitting
into the shell-holder thats made for that cartridge. Some lots of brass
run as high as 20% mortality rate. I can't force the new brass into the
shell-holder using hand -pressure. There's no need here to use a bigger hammer!
The problem is not the rim diameter, it's the recess just above the rim.
The no-gos run about 0.030" too large.
I'll have a talk with the store-owner, and report on it later.
Jim
6mm Remington
Ammo Smith
- Feb 27, 2006
- 5,240
- 522
Jim,
That's really odd, but besides just the store owner, I would send Winchester a letter or e-mail them from their web-site and let them know directly. Winchester brass has usually been good for me, but I suppose once in a while something falls through the crack. We did have a lot of 7mm Remington brass that was soft, and this was from factory loaded rounds!
The worst train wreck I almost saw happen was this. My buddy had a .270 Winchester and I was shooting my rifle getting it sighted in with handloads. He was using some factory Remington 130 gr. loads. I was going to shoot his rifle and I pulled a round out of the box and looked at it and breathed a heavy sigh of relief that I had not loaded it and shot this round. When the brass had been poured into the mold the only thing i can figure is that it was right at the end and the brass was almost used up for that batch. This is how it looked.
Appeared to be a perfectly fine loaded round. You could shake it and hear the powder insde, the bullet looked to be seated fine, and the primer was there and was seated. IF YOU COULD CALL IT THAT! It's hard to give you all a visual without drawing a picture but I will try. The primer was seated and was at the correct depth, but was being held at the VERY bottom of the primer hole by what looked to be brass no more than 1/16th to1/8th of an inch thick. There was nothing surrounding the side of the primer body at all clear up to the top of the primer to the part where the firing pin hits the primer, and mean nothing but space. From where this tiny amount of brass was holding the primer in this precarious fashion, it tapered up at an angle to the bottom of the shell casing where the caliber and all the rest of the information is stamped. The amount of base support would be enoughfor the round to be picked up by the bolt and fed into the chamber, but only barely. The brass was about 1/8 of an inch wide at the base of cartridge!!! :shock:
No other rounds in this box looked to be defective, but I guess it does only take one. I do not know what would have happned had my buddy shot that cartridge. He would have been very lucky if he would hot have gotten brass and powder gases in his face, and had his rifle ruined on top of it. I contacted Remington right away and sent them this cartridge and the box it came in. Everybody always thinks I"m a little of kilter when I shake my cartridges to listen for the sound of powder, if it's not compressed, and I always give them extra once overs. It is just something I do, but I know how easy it is to be distracted. What is sad about this case is that the brass was formed and was inspected and passed that portion. Then it was primed and passed there. Then it was loaded with powder, bullet seated, and then boxed up with a final inspection Only think I can this was that it was a Friday at about 4:30 PM, last run of the day. Everyone in all of these areas were tired from a long work week and were looking forward to the weekend, and may have been having a bad time on the home front with the female half, but WOW! :evil:
That's really odd, but besides just the store owner, I would send Winchester a letter or e-mail them from their web-site and let them know directly. Winchester brass has usually been good for me, but I suppose once in a while something falls through the crack. We did have a lot of 7mm Remington brass that was soft, and this was from factory loaded rounds!
The worst train wreck I almost saw happen was this. My buddy had a .270 Winchester and I was shooting my rifle getting it sighted in with handloads. He was using some factory Remington 130 gr. loads. I was going to shoot his rifle and I pulled a round out of the box and looked at it and breathed a heavy sigh of relief that I had not loaded it and shot this round. When the brass had been poured into the mold the only thing i can figure is that it was right at the end and the brass was almost used up for that batch. This is how it looked.
Appeared to be a perfectly fine loaded round. You could shake it and hear the powder insde, the bullet looked to be seated fine, and the primer was there and was seated. IF YOU COULD CALL IT THAT! It's hard to give you all a visual without drawing a picture but I will try. The primer was seated and was at the correct depth, but was being held at the VERY bottom of the primer hole by what looked to be brass no more than 1/16th to1/8th of an inch thick. There was nothing surrounding the side of the primer body at all clear up to the top of the primer to the part where the firing pin hits the primer, and mean nothing but space. From where this tiny amount of brass was holding the primer in this precarious fashion, it tapered up at an angle to the bottom of the shell casing where the caliber and all the rest of the information is stamped. The amount of base support would be enoughfor the round to be picked up by the bolt and fed into the chamber, but only barely. The brass was about 1/8 of an inch wide at the base of cartridge!!! :shock:
No other rounds in this box looked to be defective, but I guess it does only take one. I do not know what would have happned had my buddy shot that cartridge. He would have been very lucky if he would hot have gotten brass and powder gases in his face, and had his rifle ruined on top of it. I contacted Remington right away and sent them this cartridge and the box it came in. Everybody always thinks I"m a little of kilter when I shake my cartridges to listen for the sound of powder, if it's not compressed, and I always give them extra once overs. It is just something I do, but I know how easy it is to be distracted. What is sad about this case is that the brass was formed and was inspected and passed that portion. Then it was primed and passed there. Then it was loaded with powder, bullet seated, and then boxed up with a final inspection Only think I can this was that it was a Friday at about 4:30 PM, last run of the day. Everyone in all of these areas were tired from a long work week and were looking forward to the weekend, and may have been having a bad time on the home front with the female half, but WOW! :evil:
That is scary regarding the factory loads there is no excuse for that to have happened. Regarding the new brass not fitting into the shell holders. Happens a lot in the .223 wssm drives me nuts. I modified the shell holder a bit so that they would fit. With the high demand for ammo and reloading supplies it is safe to say that quality control has taken a back seat to production. To bad
