New Hunting loads

[Rol_P]

Last year my Rem. 700 CDL in 30-06 was very effective in harvesting a 5x5 bull and a 4x4 Mulie buck in Montana. During the interim I have been tweaking loads trying to get it to shoot better than the 1.5 - 2" normal groups with both factory and my hand loads. Late in August I took it to a gunsmith to re-bed the action and lap the bolt lugs as only one was contacting the receiver.

Due to other obligations I did not get to pick it up from the smith until last Saturday. My hand load of 61.0 Gr of Reloder 22 in a new Nosler case, WLR primer, under a Nosler 180gr. AccuBond grouped just under 1" (0.947". Big improvement.

Over the summer I had picked up 2 lbs of H4350 and have started to develop loads. I have been loading the H4350 with Nosler 180 Partitions and getting groups around or just under 1" until I loaded 56.0 gr of H4350 and set the bullet .015 deeper and found a sweet spot, 0.565" for a 5 shot group. 5 roounds chronographed a low of 2,645 and a high of 2,658, average 2,650.

Question(s) should I accept the great accuracy with H4350 and mediocre velocity or should I continue to try the Reloder 22 loads varying the seating depth to attain better accuracy and velocity.

The JBM Ballistics program does not show a huge difference in trajectory and plenty of energy, 1,760 ftl bs @ 400 yards.

I have read that H4350 is more temperature stable than other powders such as Reloder 22.
Any and all thoughts and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Rol

 

[DrMike]

Always go for accuracy unless velocity is so low that it fails to deliver at the distances you anticipate shooting. Accuracy gives you more confidence in the field, and that is invaluable. It doesn't hurt to tweak the load using RL22, but if you have loads made up with H4350, you will know that you are set for the hunt.

 

[SJB358]

I'm with Mike. If you can ring the metal at 400 with your load, and I'm sure you can, I'm thinking an elk will be impressed. My 35 Whelen load runs the 250 PT at 2630 and I have 0 reservations about killing elk out to 400 with that combo.

 

[OU812]

IMO accuracy trumps speed unless it's ridiculously slow for your needs but it's nice if you can get both. 2650 and the accuracy you got would be fine with me and I would be done.

 

[kraky]

You have a great load to fall back on.......
Now is a great time to keep moving forward w/more load development!

 

[sask boy]

I will always take accuracy first :wink:! That Elk at 300 yard did know if the bullet was going 2650 or 2825 !
PS. Scotty when are we going to see what that Newton can do in the field :mrgreen:! The animal will think a sledge hammer hit it!!

Blessings,
Dan

 

[6mm Remington]

I'm with the use what it really likes. You aren't getting bad fps at all. What are you getting currently with the R22 powder? I really like H4350 and IMR4350 in the 30-06 and it's siblings.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I agree with kraky...you have an accurate load, but that doesn't mean there isn't another one...and their probably is.

Just at a glance, from an OBT standpoint, and not knowing exact details your rifle ....I think you found a low node, it's worth a try to see if you can reach the next one.

 

[hubcap]

Just me but I would stick with RL-22. Probably too close to hunting season to switch from a known load to a slow load. Just saying.

 

[RiverRider]

I don't know anyone who really KNOWS how temperature sensitive Re22 is in a cross-section of cartridges. I do believe it's a temp sensitive powder based on the experience of folks I know and trust, but I've been told by a ballistics tech that any powder will display different degrees of temperature sensitivity in different cartridges. Implied was the notion that the more radical the cartridge is, the more fickle any powder will be.

The .30-06 just isn't all that radical. Still, you don't KNOW until you've actually experimented a bit (or have competent friends who can share experiences honestly).

On the other hand, I think H4350 has a stellar reputation in the '06 cased cartridges and if you're getting that kind of accuracy, maybe it would be putting off the experiments for a season.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I have tested H4350 for temp sensitivity in the 30-06...from 0 to 100 degrees....it is extremely stable IN THAT ROUND, others may be too, I don't know.

Whether anybody considers me a reliable source of this info? I don't know...but I posted the specifics somewhere on this forum.

I don't blame anybody for not trusting something they read online....even from what most would consider reliable sources, I don't believe it until I see it for myself....just the way my feeble mind works, it doesn't mean I don't appreciate advice.

I've given RL22 a pretty hard time, here and elsewhere, and I have my reasons for that....that said, I didn't realize just how different a given powder could react in a different case capacity/pressure level until this past year...I've been at this a while, but I'm still learning as I go....I now realize RL22 probably works just fine in some rounds, but it left a bad taste in my mouth in a 300 WM.

May give it a go in my 280 Ackley if MRP doesn't suit me.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Rol, I switched from Ramshot Hunter to H4350 for my 30-06 with 180 PTs because my jug of Hunter showed quite a lot of temp variance running it over a chrono in cold weather. My chrono may have had issues with the cold weather also, but the POI changed several inches, and I abandoned the Hunter.

You don't indicate your barrel length. 56.5 grains of H4350 in my 22.75 inch barrel gives me almost 2800 fps with good accuracy (consistently 1 MOA for 4 or 5 shots), but my 30-06 has a different barrel than yours, and won't show the same velocity. Even loading up to 57.5 grains H4350 I never saw pressure signs, but accuracy fell off a bit.

Bottom line is I think you can continue to load up quite a bit. I've read of some 30-06s taking up to 59 or 60 grains of H4350 with 180s before they show pressure signs. I would certainly feel comfortable loading up to 2750 or 2800 fps and see what accuracy you get there.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

I load 180gr Speer deepcurls over 56.5gr on IMR4350, in my '06, with an honest 3/4" group at 100yds. I've never chronoed this load, as I dont care how fast it is. It is a deadly combo!

 

[Rol_P]

Thanks for all the input Fellas.. I think that I will load up some H4350 loads and feel comfortable with the accuracy. Today was windy and I was rushing to beat some rain that came in so my groups were off from yesterday. My barrel may have needed a cleaning also.

While doing an abbreviated OCW test I did load some 57.6gr loads of H4350 and found the groups opened up. If time allows I may go beck to that charge and try tweaking the seating depth.

My '06 has a 24" barrel and this afternoon clocked over 2,800 fps with 61.0 gr of Reloder 22. Three shots of a five shot group touching and at the same POI as an adjoining target with 56.0 of H4350.

Thanks again for the replies. Regards, Rol

 

[Vince]

Always go for accuracy unless velocity is so low that it fails to deliver at the distances you anticipate shooting. Accuracy gives you more confidence in the field, and that is invaluable. It doesn't hurt to tweak the load using RL22, but if you have loads made up with H4350, you will know that you are set for the hunt.

This is the issue, velocity at predicted impact distance, that gives me pause on many load options I have.

Vince

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[350JR]

Devils advocate here.

"Last year my Rem. 700 CDL in 30-06 was very effective in harvesting a 5x5 bull and a 4x4 Mulie buck in Montana." = done deal. What was lacking?

"My hand load of 61.0 Gr of Reloder 22 in a new Nosler case, WLR primer, under a Nosler 180gr. AccuBond grouped just under 1" (0.947". Big improvement." = Improved on an already good thing????

No offense to Mike on the confidence thing. I totally agree on confidence being mandatory, HOWEVER

Such can be gotten from trajectory and raw energy at point of impact and BULLET PERFORMANCE from the end velocity as well.

IMHO. ANY big game rifle shooting under an inch is WAY more than required (needed, useful) and upteen millions of hunters go out with factory guns and factory loads and have shot their gun enough to have every bit the amount of confidence all bench shooters have. They KNOW their rifle and trajectory. THERE is where confidence has it's roots.

The man that can USE the difference in accuracy FROM THE BENCH of a half inch vs one inch while hunting IN FIELD HUNTING conditions..........is uh....... nevermind. There isn't one.

Even IF the hunter COULD shoot 2 inch groups with one at 400 and "only" 4 inch groups with the other........no deer or elk would know.

The 06 is a time honored and super hunting round. A speed queen it will never be so ME? I'd be wanting ALL the velocity I could get (AT expected ranges, which would put my focus on bullet types and min velocities they perform more than anything) I could get out of it for an ELK would be No. 2 right after bullet choice.

Bullet PERFORMANCE is mandatory and what any round will put the choice of bullet the HIGHEST velocity ABOVE minimum impact velocity (AND have adequate energy) would always get the nod for longer ranges.

No, there isn't a "lot" of difference on the charts out there for the 06 loads varying velocities but I wouldn't looking at the energy other than "is it enough". For Elk, at longer ranges, in a 30 cal bullet not starting out fast to begin with.........
I'd be looking at the maximum range that bullet is going to open......A LOT and loading my loads accordingly.

Not ALL that many years ago a factory rifle that guaranteed "1 1/2 inch groups" was looked upon as an advertising ploy, till they proved they could do that.

The animals didn't get so much smaller that more than that (group size) is even useful, not for big game unless you shoot REALLY long range, which wouldn't be with the 30-06.

I'd not sacrifice a LICK of velocity / energy / bullet performance from a 30-06 that WILL BE THERE and useful, for a 1/2 MOA accuracy........that wont make a bit of difference even if you COULD shoot that well in the field.

2 cents.
God Bless

 

[DON]

RP,
This reminds me of when I was trying to get 100 fps more out of my 300 RUM, all the while creating excessive pressures on my brass, not able to use re-sized brass due to the SCREAMER LOAD I developed, just new brass
.
For me, 100 fps more from any cartridge will not kill any animal faster on the planet. I finally was able to work up a safe load with no pressure issues for the 300 RUM that gave me gave me use of the re-sized brass plus the groups were unbelievable for me, best group was .192 with several after very close to that. I got caught up in posts of others stating they got 100-200 fps more than me, and the most likely did, but then every rifle can be different too.

I re-stocked my Rem 700 over a year ago, had the stock bedded, pillars added, barrel floated and the trigger re-worked and set to 2.5lb pull. Need I say what an improvement that was. I am pleased with my results. Accuracy is everything for me even if I lack a little velocity.

When your animal is harvested it never knew the load was 100 fps faster!! :shock: :mrgreen:

Your 30-06 with that 180 load is a killer load, shot placement is key as with any rifle no matter the cartridge. But when I know the rifle can thread the needle, then I can shoot with confidence in most given situations. :wink:

By the way Dr. Mike is dead on with his reply.

Don

 

[350JR]

Yeah BUT..........you were NOT using a slow load to begin with.

You are correct IN a 300 RUM, you had "room to spare" and such is accurate but there is a point of no return when running near minimum.

There is none you can afford to give up for SOME rounds at SOME distances.
My reply was based on the 30-06.

If your statement was ALWAYS true.......then why not use a 308?
The velocities he quoted for his accurate load are max load velocities in several powders with a 180 grain bullet (without taking that on too) right from the Hodgdon website.

Similar comparison. "just a few hundred feet per second less" than the 30-06 pretty much across the board. 308 for elk at 300 yards or more? Not me.

IMHO

 

[SJB358]

My pops smoked ALOT of animals with his old BAR and the Federal Premium 180 PT loads. I'd bet they don't run over 2700 out of his Browning. He's not a gun nut like me, never was. He took moose, elk, deer, bear, caribou and God knows what else. He zeroed at 250 yards and took everything. I'm the speed freak of the family and run fast stuff. While I agree the 180 might not be going as fast as it could, it's still doing plenty of good out to 400 yards or better.

Would I hunt with the RL22 load, yup! It's whatever makes the shooter feel more better'er when he's shooting it. On the ground shooting off a pack tends to make a lot of loads look the same.

I'd personally be shooting them out further, just to make sure everything was dialed in perfectly and ready for the next freezer filling event.

 

[Vince]

Always go for accuracy unless velocity is so low that it fails to deliver at the distances you anticipate shooting. Accuracy gives you more confidence in the field, and that is invaluable. It doesn't hurt to tweak the load using RL22, but if you have loads made up with H4350, you will know that you are set for the hunt.

^^^^^^
THIS!

I have a great load for my 6.5x284 but the bullet is going so slow it barely had the velocity to expand the bullet much beyond 300 Yards.

Since 300 Yards is considered a close shot in the area I favor hunting this has placed me in a quandary as far as selecting what rifle to use for my upcoming deer hunt. I decided to reach for my one gun for all game rifle, the .338 Win Mag.

It has the velocity to get me out further and the mass to make up for minimal expansion at the longer distances I anticipate shooting.

I'm off the thought that one has to blend the velocity with the accuracy and make their choices based on those two factors and reach a reasonable compromise based on those variables.

Vince

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