New load needed

[DaveA37]

My 2013 Wyoming elk season ended with me getting a nice cow using my 280 loaded with 140 AB's. While I dropped her at only 60 yards, I feel I did get lucky with a good shot through the heart but had she been a bit further away, perhaps things may have been different. Perhaps a heavier bullet may have been in order but "dead is dead", as had been said by many.

Not being satisified with the status quo, I am thinking of moving up to a 150 AB bullet and seek new load information from the "experts". Anyone have a 280 load using 150 Nosler AB's? The powders I have on hand at the present time are IMR 3031, 4831, 4350, RL22.

 

[PJGunner]

I've been looking at the 150 gr. ABLR's in the .280 and the first run using IMR 7828 SSC showed very good velocity but rather mediocre accuracy. I did reach a velocity of 3010 FPS from my rifle's 24" barrel but groups were in the 2.5" area. I did a speed check with factory ammo and the average velocity was 2844 FPS with an ES of 12 FPS. One load gave an average of 2934 FPS with an ES of 15 FPS and I'm thinking I'll work with that one and try for better accuracy. That 3010 FPS load had an ES of 12 FPS but my gut tells me to back off with that one. Well, it was 85* the day I did the tests. Might be OK in January when I do my cow elk hunt.
I started with 57.0 gr. of 7827SSC and worked up to 59.0 gr. which was the 3010 FPS load. Brass was Winchester nicel plate and primer the Winchester standard WLR.
Can't help you with any of the powders you have except H4350 which I'm saving hat I do have for the 30-06. I can't find any of the others. I've been looking for Re22 for almost a year now. I managed to snag a couple of pounds of the 7828 one day and as it was one a hair or two behind Re22 for velocity in the .280 I grabbed them. I kind of need the speed as where I'm hunting shots have been running in the 300 yard+ range.
I'm thinking I'm gonna like those ABLR's in that .280. They look like a V-2 rocket that lost it's fins. :lol:
If all goes well I'll be using the .280 as primary and the 30-06 as back up.
Paul B.

 

[DrMike]

The 140 grain AB works like a dream on elk when launched from either of my .280s. However, more mass can be comforting. I have tended toward the Partition, however. Don't over look the newer 150 grain ABLR. I'm using 60.0 grains of VN560 and a F210M primer to produce velocities in excess of 3000 fps and sub-MOA groups in my 24 inch Remington. I can assure you that it will drop an elk right smartly. (http://www.noslerreloading.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25444)

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Switch to a 140gr Barnes TTSX, 54gr of IMR 4350, CCI 200 primer. You will have all the stopping power you need!

 

[Guy Miner]

DaveA37, what was it about the performance of the 140 AccuBond that you didn't like?

And for all you .280 guys - what's the thought on the 160 gr Noslers? I always thought the 160's were about ideal for my 7mm Rem mag, and it's not all that much faster than a well-loaded .280/.280 AI.

Guy

 

[DrMike]

Guy,

I like the 160 Partition and the 160 AB in both my 7WSM and in my 7RM. I don't use them much in either of my .280s. The 150 ABLR, 150 PT, 150 ETip and 140 AB all work well enough that I've never been tempted to go heavier in the .280. Candidly, in the Featherweight, I've never shot anything heavier than a 140 grain bullet in the field. That particular weight bullet has dropped deer like the Hammer of Thor and was generally sufficient to handle a moose or an elk should I happen upon one. The 150 grain bullets are the heaviest I've considered by the newer .280. A premium 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps is more than adequate for any game I encounter in the field.

 

[JD338]

Dave,

Congratulations on the elk!
I am shooting a 280 AI with the new 150 gr ABLR and 61.0 grs RL 22 for 3100 fps and sub MOA accuracy.
Same load with the 150 gr PT is 3050 fps and excellent accuracy.
Cases are R-P and primers are Federal GM215M.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

DaveA37, what was it about the performance of the 140 AccuBond that you didn't like?

And for all you .280 guys - what's the thought on the 160 gr Noslers? I always thought the 160's were about ideal for my 7mm Rem mag, and it's not all that much faster than a well-loaded .280/.280 AI.

Guy

Same here Dave, what about the 140 wasn't good for ya. Just wondering..

I would think the 150 PT would be a really good one for the 280.. Midpoint in weight, still great speeds and you know the PT is going to drive very deep.

 

[Polaris]

Don't have any elk experience, but the 160 PT used to be my go-to load for big whitetails in tight cover. Made a few shots that were tough angles, heavy bone and bullet passed completely through with good terminal results. Not the flattest shooting load out there, but was able to maintain a 200 yard zero, 300 yard PBR on a 8" dia vital zone with +2.4MOA zero at 100 yards. My load used Rem brass, Rem 9 1/2 and IMR 4350 to max plus 1.5 gr data (Mauser 98 action) using Lyman data as a baseline. Never got super accuracy with this combo, but was sufficient for deer to 200 yards or so.

Due to some logging operations in my hunting area, my potential range increased so I've switched to the Speer 145 gr Grand Slam. Same load, Lyman Data baseline +1 gr. This one is lights-out accurate, easily sub MOA. Drops deer like a lightning bolt on brain stem shots at near powder burn range. All bullets appeared to pass through intact. Do not have any tough angle/heavy bone or long range impact experience with this load yet. With the velocity I'm pushing, despite the mediocre BC of this load, my zero is a bit flatter at +2.0 MOA @100 to maintain 300 yard PBR with my rig.

 

[DaveA37]

My reason for going to the 150 AB was nothing more than wanting a heavier bullet and really nothing more. The 140 AB certainly does a good job as it has already taken antelope, whitetail and mule deer and two elk. Guess there is no reason to change other than "gut feelings". :grin:

 

[sask boy]

Some say if it ain't broke don't fix it 8).
But if you can play a little & find something better that is not a bad thing.
I have used a 130gr. Bullet in my 270win for over 40 years. I shot with partitions & then switched to ABs. My son just took a moose 2 weekends ago with his 270win he used the 150gr. ABLRs it was a Texas heart shot but did the job!!
It looks like I am going to be using my 270win for the deer seasons as I have not yet received my new 280AI. I will be shooting the 130gr. again using IMR4350.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[DaveA37]

The current load I'm using in my Rem 700 in 280 is 140 AB's, 55 gr of IMR 4350, Rem brass and WLR primers. As previously stated in my earlier post, that load does work but I have no idea what the FPS is since I do not have access to a cronograph to get a profile. My guess is around 2800/2900 FPS. Anyone out there that can calculate the speed rather than my guessing?

 

[DrMike]

Here's a QL projection for standard conditions.

Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.104 grain H2O = 3.902 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 44.00 2349 1715 31743 9006 88.2 1.416
-18.0 82 45.10 2406 1799 33816 9301 89.4 1.380
-16.0 84 46.20 2463 1886 36020 9589 90.6 1.346
-14.0 86 47.30 2520 1974 38367 9870 91.7 1.310
-12.0 88 48.40 2577 2065 40839 10143 92.8 1.271
-10.0 90 49.50 2635 2158 43448 10406 93.8 1.234
-08.0 92 50.60 2692 2253 46221 10659 94.7 1.198
-06.0 94 51.70 2749 2350 49170 10901 95.6 1.164
-04.0 96 52.80 2807 2449 52308 11131 96.4 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 98 53.90 2864 2549 55647 11348 97.1 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 55.00 2921 2652 59204 11551 97.7 1.068 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 102 56.10 2978 2756 62994 11739 98.3 1.038 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 104 57.20 3035 2863 67037 11911 98.8 1.010 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 106 58.30 3091 2970 71354 12067 99.2 0.982 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 59.40 3148 3080 75967 12205 99.5 0.955 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 110 60.50 3204 3191 80902 12325 99.7 0.929 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 55.00 3051 2893 69596 11432 100.0 0.995 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 55.00 2749 2350 48996 11143 91.8 1.163

 

[DaveA37]

Dr. Mike....

I am NOT educated in deciphering the chart you provided. Attempting to understand it, correct me if I am wrong in reading that using 55 gr. of 4350 exceed the safe limits for the .280. Is my assumption correct?

Simply, I need an eduction in reading the chart.

 

[sask boy]

JD, that load you gave for the 150gr. ABLRs what is your OAL?
That is what I would to shoot out of my 280AI.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[DrMike]

Dr. Mike....

I am NOT educated in deciphering the chart you provided. Attempting to understand it, correct me if I am wrong in reading that using 55 gr. of 4350 exceed the safe limits for the .280. Is my assumption correct?

Simply, I need an eduction in reading the chart.

Dave,

If the chamber is reamed to SAAMI specs, and if all components were as assumed in the projection, it would generate a pressure in excess of what is considered safe within the safety parameters of burn rate variations. In short, this is a prediction and not a guarantee. You will need to work up the load in your own rifle to verify safety or to verify whether signs of excessive pressure are present. Second, the SAAMI pressure for the .280 REM is set quite conservative due to Remington's determination that higher pressures in their pump and semi-auto rifles would be a problem. In point of fact, I run quite a bit higher pressure in my bolt guns. The reason I posted the projection was your request for a calculation of velocity. I believe it is fair to suggest that in a 22 inch barrel, you are generating a velocity of ~2900 fps. Whether you are generating excessive pressure of not would be your call given your determination of workup and observation. If I reset pressure limits to 62000 psi, the projection comes out like this:

Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.104 grain H2O = 3.902 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 44.40 2370 1746 32483 9114 88.6 1.403
-18.0 83 45.51 2427 1831 34622 9409 89.9 1.368
-16.0 85 46.62 2485 1919 36902 9697 91.1 1.333
-14.0 87 47.73 2543 2010 39318 9978 92.2 1.294
-12.0 89 48.84 2600 2102 41864 10249 93.2 1.256
-10.0 91 49.95 2658 2197 44562 10511 94.2 1.219
-08.0 93 51.06 2716 2293 47432 10762 95.1 1.184
-06.0 95 52.17 2774 2392 50487 11001 95.9 1.150
-04.0 97 53.28 2832 2492 53739 11228 96.7 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 99 54.39 2889 2595 57203 11440 97.4 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 55.50 2947 2699 60896 11638 98.0 1.055 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 56.61 3004 2805 64836 11821 98.5 1.025 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 57.72 3061 2913 69042 11987 99.0 0.997 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 58.83 3118 3023 73538 12136 99.3 0.969 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 59.94 3175 3134 78348 12266 99.6 0.942 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 61.05 3232 3247 83500 12377 99.8 0.917 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 55.50 3075 2940 71575 11481 100.0 0.983 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 55.50 2776 2395 50406 11262 92.2 1.148

If pressure limit is adjusted to 64000 psi, the projection comes out like this:

Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 60.104 grain H2O = 3.902 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 44.80 2390 1776 33239 9221 89.1 1.390
-18.0 83 45.92 2448 1864 35448 9516 90.3 1.355
-16.0 85 47.04 2507 1953 37801 9804 91.5 1.319
-14.0 87 48.16 2565 2045 40288 10084 92.6 1.279
-12.0 89 49.28 2623 2139 42914 10354 93.6 1.241
-10.0 91 50.40 2682 2236 45704 10614 94.6 1.205
-08.0 94 51.52 2740 2334 48675 10863 95.5 1.169
-06.0 96 52.64 2798 2434 51839 11099 96.3 1.136
-04.0 98 53.76 2857 2537 55210 11321 97.0 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 100 54.88 2915 2641 58805 11530 97.7 1.071 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 56.00 2973 2747 62639 11723 98.2 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 57.12 3030 2855 66734 11899 98.7 1.012 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 58.24 3088 2965 71111 12059 99.2 0.984 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 108 59.36 3146 3076 75794 12200 99.5 0.956 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 110 60.48 3203 3189 80809 12323 99.7 0.930 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 112 61.60 3260 3303 86189 12425 99.9 0.904 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 56.00 3100 2987 73611 11525 100.0 0.971 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 56.00 2802 2441 51850 11378 92.7 1.133

Pressure can only be determined in one system at a time. What is interesting is that even allowing for higher chamber pressures, you really don't gain all that much velocity. In my own rifles, I normally adjust my projections to a higher pressure, primarily to allow me to have a more realistic assessment of my .280. I seldom run the loads hot, however, as I don't gain that much velocity and the accuracy is sufficient to give me what I want.

I hope that explanation helps.

 

[Wincheringen]

56.0 grains of RL22 with the 150 grain E Tip loaded out to 3.33" is sub half MOA in my .280. It runs across the chronograph at 2900 FPS.

 

[ccoker]

I would stay away from H4831sc as 60g was only getting me 2800 FPS or so in my 280AI and the 150 LRABs

I am just hunting white tails and hogs and went back to my proven one hole group load of the 140 AB for the time being.