New Sako 85; Caliber??

[Big Squeeze]

OK, I'll muddy the waters a bit more. :twisted: What about the 338 Federal?

If your hunting style is to keep shots not much more than 300 yards, it could be worth a look.

Short action, 22.5 inch barrel, energy equal to a 7mm Mag, and recoil equal to the 30-06. Sounds like exactly what you're looking for.

I chronograph the 180 grain AB factory load at a bit over 2700 fps, which is equal to the standard 30-06 load. The 200 AB clocks in at 2630 fps. This is from a Sako 85 Hunter.

I'm going to load some 225 grain AB at an expected 2400 fps this week. The superior BC of this bullet would make it a 400 yard cartridge for elk, despite the moderate initial velocity (~1700 ft-lbs, at 1800+ fps).

Ed

....................................................................I happen to reload this cartridge for a friend of mine. Needless to say, I really like the 338 Fed. My friend`s rifle, similiar to mine, is the Ruger Frontier stainless compact with the 16.5" tube equipped with a 2.75x Burris scout scope!.............A peach in the fields and devastating on piggys. He has taken a black bear, an elk and a moose and several pigs when going pig hunting with me.................You do know how to muddy things up!!

 

[Big Squeeze]

Good thoughts there BigSqueeze.

........................................Thank you sir!!......Go over to the old stomping ground (RN) and go to rifle loads and click on 300 WSM. Scroll all the way down until you see load #`s 3761 & 3779! Those two load examples using IMR 4007 were done by the same guy, who`s account I read on yet another site! It was his account that I was talking about!................

 

[bullet]

Good thoughts there BigSqueeze.

........................................Thank you sir!!......Go over to the old stomping ground (RN) and go to rifle loads and click on 300 WSM. Scroll all the way down until you see load #`s 3761 & 3779! Those two load examples using IMR 4007 were done by the same guy, who`s account I read on yet another site! It was his account that I was talking about!................

Not so sure I have the heart or desire to go over there. Just pm me the load data so I can compare. :lol: :wink:

 

[Guest]

With all this talk about loading down to -06 levels with one of the 300's, I feel compelled to question the accuracy attainable at those levels. I've loaded for and shot several magnums and none of them achieve optimal grouping until you get up closer to the max charge, like in the 95%+ range. Your mileage may vary, and my sample size is only six or seven rifles, only one of which I own, but my experience has been so nearly universal that I felt compelled to comment. Is anybody getting accuracy at reduced charges in the mags?

I have ten magnums 1-257-300, 2-7mmRem Mag 1-7mmSTW, 2-300Win, 2-300Wby, 1-338Win Mag, and 1-350 Rem Mag. Have loaded and fired for all except the 350 Rem Mag. Never have been able due to slow burning powders been able to load down and get accruacy anywhere as good as when shooting near or at max levels in any of my magnums. Back to my point which has to do with his comment on not wanting a lot of recoil and is not sure and does not want to be disappointed, he should opt for the 30-06.

...........................................................Good point! However there are faster burners out there that can be loaded down for either the 300 WSM or the 300 Win. The best example of this is IMR 4007 SSC which I have yet to try!.... I have read accounts that while the loads were in the process of being worked up to a maximum for their given rifles in 300 WSM, each individual groupings for the reduced loads were extremely accurate in that the bullet holes were all touching each other! The IMR 4007 approaches the velocity of the slower burners and uses about 10 grains less per round; one example I read was 2979 fps. using a 180gr. Sierra with 60.0 gr. of IMR 4007 and without pressure signs.......Reduced loads using the slower burners may not achieve the best accuracy, but reduced loadings using the faster burners,,, just may have a different story???? From all accounts that I have read so far, it seems that IMR 4007SSC may be the most efficient burner for the 300 WSM while within SAMMI and approaches the velocities of the slower powders!......There is also data available on the Hodgdon site for the 300 Win. using the IMR 4007!

My concern when 'down-loading' large cases is that even the faster powders are not going to come close to filling the cases, and you run the risk of strong pressure spikes causing catastrophic damage when the flame fronts intersect (if the powder is sufficiently loose in the case as to allow multiple ignition points in the powder). With the 300WSM the powder has a lot less case length to take up before having to pile up above the flash hole than the 300WinMag does. I've seen the results of a very mild case of this in a 44Mag reduced load, and it's not pretty. I find the idea of a rifle case being only half full really frightening, and wouldn't try it. If there was a bigger difference in the 300WinMag and the 30-06, I might be inclined to say try it and see what happens, but even when loaded up to max, the mag is not terribly faster than the -06, so why not just shoot the -06 and be done with it?

 

[bullet]

the mag is not terribly faster than the -06, so why not just shoot the -06 and be done with it?

Yes!!! That is what I have been trying to get accross and tell the guy, just get the 06.

 

[YoteSmoker]

+3

 

[Big Squeeze]

With all this talk about loading down to -06 levels with one of the 300's, I feel compelled to question the accuracy attainable at those levels. I've loaded for and shot several magnums and none of them achieve optimal grouping until you get up closer to the max charge, like in the 95%+ range. Your mileage may vary, and my sample size is only six or seven rifles, only one of which I own, but my experience has been so nearly universal that I felt compelled to comment. Is anybody getting accuracy at reduced charges in the mags?

I have ten magnums 1-257-300, 2-7mmRem Mag 1-7mmSTW, 2-300Win, 2-300Wby, 1-338Win Mag, and 1-350 Rem Mag. Have loaded and fired for all except the 350 Rem Mag. Never have been able due to slow burning powders been able to load down and get accruacy anywhere as good as when shooting near or at max levels in any of my magnums. Back to my point which has to do with his comment on not wanting a lot of recoil and is not sure and does not want to be disappointed, he should opt for the 30-06.

...........................................................Good point! However there are faster burners out there that can be loaded down for either the 300 WSM or the 300 Win. The best example of this is IMR 4007 SSC which I have yet to try!.... I have read accounts that while the loads were in the process of being worked up to a maximum for their given rifles in 300 WSM, each individual groupings for the reduced loads were extremely accurate in that the bullet holes were all touching each other! The IMR 4007 approaches the velocity of the slower burners and uses about 10 grains less per round; one example I read was 2979 fps. using a 180gr. Sierra with 60.0 gr. of IMR 4007 and without pressure signs.......Reduced loads using the slower burners may not achieve the best accuracy, but reduced loadings using the faster burners,,, just may have a different story???? From all accounts that I have read so far, it seems that IMR 4007SSC may be the most efficient burner for the 300 WSM while within SAMMI and approaches the velocities of the slower powders!......There is also data available on the Hodgdon site for the 300 Win. using the IMR 4007!

My concern when 'down-loading' large cases is that even the faster powders are not going to come close to filling the cases, and you run the risk of strong pressure spikes causing catastrophic damage when the flame fronts intersect (if the powder is sufficiently loose in the case as to allow multiple ignition points in the powder). With the 300WSM the powder has a lot less case length to take up before having to pile up above the flash hole than the 300WinMag does. I've seen the results of a very mild case of this in a 44Mag reduced load, and it's not pretty. I find the idea of a rifle case being only half full really frightening, and wouldn't try it. If there was a bigger difference in the 300WinMag and the 30-06, I might be inclined to say try it and see what happens, but even when loaded up to max, the mag is not terribly faster than the -06, so why not just shoot the -06 and be done with it?

..............................................................That is why it is extremely important to use good reliable published data to know what the minimum loads & max. loads are for any given powder. IMR 4007 is no exception!......The example of catastrophic damage can occur with any cartridge if too fast a powder is used for a particular cartridge with a large case and underloaded at the same time!! if one follows the correct published data, damage should never occur!...........The Hodgdon site is very specific for both the 300 Win. Mag and the 300 WSM using IMR 4007, as minimum and maximum loads are very clear for the reloader to read...........For the 300 Win. using a 175 gr. Sierra HPBT, the minimum load for 4007 is 64.2 gr. which gives 2809 fps......The max. for the same bullet is 68.3 @ 2963 fps. Those two charges fill the cases adequately up to nearly the base of the shoulder for the 300 Win., NOT even close to only being 1/2 full..............For the 300 WSM using the same 175 gr. Sierra HPBT, the minimum load of 4007 is 58.6 gr., giving 2797 fps. while the max. load for the same bullet 62.3 gr. of 4007 @ 2964 fps. Certainly with these two charges, they are way over the 1/2 full mark as well!!...........If one follows the proper published data, there is absolutely no way that the damage that you describe can occur. Not only does the faster burning 4007 burn rate fall in-between IMR 4320 & 4350, but the minimum loads to the max. loads listed fill the cases nicely in both the 300 WSM and the 300 Win. and if you notice, the charges are up accordingly in proportion to the increased capacity of the 300 Win. Mag. vs. the smaller 300 WSM case...........I would guess that there is also the strong possibility that the damage you saw from that 44 mag. reload, was caused by reloader oversite or not following proper published reloading data or through some ill advised experimenting with the wrong powder??!!................Loaded properly, both the 300 WSM and the 300 Win. can be successfully loaded down using the RIGHT powder. The 4007 is certainly not too fast for either!

 

[ldg397]

Good info from everyone, thank you very much. I went by there today they are going to try to locate a 300 wsm if not I will just buy the 30-06. If they find it I will decide at that time between the two. Held a 30-06 and 270wsm and not a lot of difference in rifle weight or length.

Only other thing to do is say screw it and go with the 7mag 75 synthetic they have on clearance for $900 NIB and pocket the extra $400 :lol: :lol:

Either way very interesting discussion thanks for all the input so far and any still on the way.

 

[FOTIS]

That would be a no brainer!

 

[longwinters]

I did not catch if you reload or not. But if you go with the 06 you can shoot your regular loads for deer and if you go out west buy some lite magnums to hunt with. That being said, I would have no quams shooting the 7mm with a 150 - 160 grain Partition at elk or moose. And the price seems very right . . .

Long

 

[ldg397]

I do reload and I already have a full set of dies, bullets, nosler brass for the 30-06 and I don't have anything for the 7mm.

I went today and traded for the Sako 85 greywolf in 30-06. The wsm's were a little more and they couldn't get the 7 or 300 for awhile. I tried to buy the 75 but having them side by side I just couldn't get past the way the laminated wood felt vs. the synthetic stock. I put it on layaway for the last couple hundred bucks I will post a target when I get it and get out to the range. I got a homeless zeiss 3.5 X 10 X 44 that needs a good home, I can't wait.

That will give me a

.260 remington 95 to 140 grain bullets
30-06 150 to 220 grain bullets
Then I will need a 338-06 or 338 federal or 35 whelen to round at the rifle battery.

Thanks for all the great information and advice.

 

[FOTIS]

Good choice. Congrats!

 

[ldg397]

Another question for you sako owners. What is the best scope mounting system? I have always used leupold or S&K on Rem 700's.

1. Optilok
2. Talley (I have seen mentioned they have a mount for the sako?)
3. Leupold for Sako

 

[MattC]

Ldg, I consider your choice a good one.

I have no experience with Talley or Leupold mounts, but FWIW, I have had no issues with the Optilock rings and bases on three Sakos.

Cheers

 

[FOTIS]

Another question for you sako owners. What is the best scope mounting system? I have always used leupold or S&K on Rem 700's.

1. Optilok
2. Talley (I have seen mentioned they have a mount for the sako?)
3. Leupold for Sako

Warne rings!

 

[Mighty Peace]

I personally prefer the model 75 stock over the model 85 for my Sako, but thats just me. Go with either a 300WM or the 270WSM. I have both of these calibers. My 300WM is a Sako m75SS I bought 10 years ago new, and my hunting buddy ordered one in too. I have 2 Tikka T3 LS in the 270WSM (wife/mine) and they are great shooters. I wanted the Sako m75 Greywolf but they were not out yet and I waited the extra year for the Tikka T3 in the LS model for the 270WSM.

I kick myself for not buying a mint used Sako m75SS 270WSM in the SM action last winter and a 338 this fall in the same model. I am now looking at either a m75 SS or Greywolf in 30-06 to do a 338-06. I sure wish I could buy off Guns America or off USA dealers-hard to find here in Canada.

Maybe a Finnlight is the way to go if you want lighter.
Or maybe the new Sako A7 thats just being released.

For mounts, go with the Sako Optilocks-Rings and Bases for SURE!!!

Cost is more, but well worth it. I have Optilocks on all my Sako and Tikka T3 rifles holding Leupold Vari-X III and VX3 scopes.

Never lost a zero on my 300WM and only changed it when I started reloading.

 

[ldg397]

Pop,

Have you ever used the warne torque screwdriver for installing the rings. I am a chronic over tightener and looks pretty reasonably priced. Just wondered how well it works?